(Topic ID: 267685)

List of Games Produced in Both EM & SS?


By OldHockeyGuy

1 year ago

Topic Heartbeat


Topic Stats

  • 57 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by Classics_Master
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

0C5736FC-9B64-42F0-B630-4C2E486FCF87.jpeg
1268758E-EF82-459F-B3E4-710D89430FA9.jpeg
B52CAFF2-9494-4AC6-B62E-220D088D970D.jpeg
P1019760 (resized).JPG
P1019764 (resized).JPG
DSC00845 (resized).JPG
standee (resized).png
90e5cc79ba38bab4d62bdf20df3bf77583496761 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
image-7 (resized).jpg
image-1 (resized).jpg
P1080119 (resized).JPG
P1010156 (resized).JPG
IMG_4774 (resized).JPG
IMG_4757 (resized).JPG
3FE3C648-5118-488D-8B1A-CA74D3784F66 (resized).jpeg

There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 1 year ago

I'm primarily interested in the era when pinballs converted from mid-to-late entirely EM to entirely SS. Has anyone published a comprehensive list of games produced in both formats? Two games were Mata Hari (B '78) and Charlie's Angels (G '79). Anyone know of others?

#2 1 year ago

Hot Tip
Cleopatra
Sinbad (with a different name for the EM)
Freedom
Evel Knievel

#3 1 year ago

Evel Knievel in EM form is probably the most desirable, but there are several others including Joker Poker, another popular one although the rules kinda suck on the EM version.

#4 1 year ago

Mata Hari

Black Jack

Night Rider

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from stevevt:

...Sinbad (with a different name for the EM) ...

Only the two player EM (Eye of the Tiger). The four player EM is still called Sinbad.

Like the four player EM version of Cleopatra has the same name, but the two player is called Pyramid.

#6 1 year ago

Are you including prototypes?
Bow & Arrow
Grand Prix
Aztec (?)

#7 1 year ago

Gottlieb always had that spread.

#8 1 year ago

Williams Lucky Seven
Gottlieb Countdown (Two player EM called Space Walk)
Bally Bow and Arrow (only 17 built)
Stern Electronics Pinball by Stern

#9 1 year ago

Here's one most won't see everyday.

image-12 (resized).jpg
#10 1 year ago

Charlie’s Angels - GTB

#11 1 year ago

Boomerang was the first SS prototype Bally built in '74 or '75 I believe. Not the first in the industry, but the first from a major player.

In the industry at the time, you either led, followed, or got left behind.

#12 1 year ago

Love the early and rapid responses. Thanks!

Prototypes are intriguing, but my question is about real production machines.

#13 1 year ago

I've had the opportunity to play most of the crossover games in both forms. Some were fun to own for a while, and others were really not much fun at all. Unless you subscribe to the theory all pinball is good. I don't when there are better games to play.

Being most were multiplayers, the rulesets especially suffered in the EMs. Late 70s was cut and paste in that department with most using some kind of bonus ladder that counted down at the end of each ball. But, with the technology now available, many of their SS counterparts did not take advantage of that and used basically the same rules or slight variations thereof.

To me, most of the rarer ones are more collector's pieces than anything special gameplay or rules wise. Some of them have cool themes and artwork, others not so much.

#14 1 year ago

Bally Freedom
Close Encounters
Dragon, I think?

#15 1 year ago

Joker Poker. 820 EM and 9280 SS.

#16 1 year ago

Whoa Nellie Big Juicy Melons

#17 1 year ago

Zaccaria's Ski Jump might be the only single player.

At least that I can come up with now.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from tricky4815:

Joker Poker. 820 EM and 9280 SS.

The SS version of JP is just far superior to the EM version. Even though it is System 1 JP is a really, really good game. That one and Pinball Pool to me are maybe the two best of the S1 games. Especially if you disable the system on PP that allowed you to collect drop targets without hitting them. I did that on mine. Makes the game way tougher.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Boomerang was the first SS prototype Bally built in '74 or '75 I believe. Not the first in the industry, but the first from a major player.
In the industry at the time, you either led, followed, or got left behind.

https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=4770&picno=6510

10
#20 1 year ago

Here’s a super rare one, and a HUO example at that.

3FE3C648-5118-488D-8B1A-CA74D3784F66 (resized).jpeg
#22 1 year ago

Spacewalk Countdown, the name change but the game is essentially the same.

#23 1 year ago

That is freaking cool that the linked ipdb entry for Boomerang has a PDF of the patent application which contains the actual 6800 assembly source code listing! I had no idea. Thanks o-din!

#24 1 year ago

King of Diamonds

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

The SS version of JP is just far superior to the EM version. Even though it is System 1 JP is a really, really good game...

The game play on the SS is better, but the EM Joker Poker playfield art blows the SS art away despite their overall similarities. My guess is the EM art was done first. On the EM, the art actually makes sense that the lower half of the playfield is a joker with the hands on the slingshots, the feet below the outlanes, and an actual face where it should be. On the SS, the face is missing and there’s just an empty hat with an odd perspectives and the hands and feet make zero sense. I don’t know why, but it just makes me sad.

#26 1 year ago

Steve Charland (blownfuse) had a prototype Gottieb Solar City with electronics. Still in the Bay Area under the care of another owner.

Machine had electronics that were in place of Relay board. Still used score reels though. Gottlieb was experimenting but never released a Solid State version.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from Slogan1111:

Close Encounters

My understanding is that this game was right on the cusp.
The solid state machines were made for the domestic market in the U.S.
While the EM version was produced for the European market (namely France), where they still wanted EM machines.

#28 1 year ago

As far as Joker Poker, it didn't take long to get over either version when I owned them as I prefer just slightly more challenging games now.

When I was 16, it sure was an easy was to make a quarter go a long way though.

#29 1 year ago

Hello every body.
Gottlieb 4 players : Cleopatra, Sinbad, Joker poker, Dragon, Close Encounters, Charlie's angels, Solar ride.
Gottlieb 2 players : Space walk
Williams 4 players : Hot tip
Williams 2 players : Lucky seven
Bally 4 players : Freedom,Mata Hari,Evel Knievel
Bally 2 players : Black jack
Chicago coins/Stern 4 players : Pinball
Good day.

IMG_4757 (resized).JPGIMG_4774 (resized).JPGP1010156 (resized).JPG
#30 1 year ago
Quoted from pins-with-cows:

Hello every body.
Gottlieb 4 players : Cleopatra, Sinbad, Joker poker, Dragon, Close Encounters, Charlie's angels, Solar ride.
Gottlieb 2 players : Space walk
Williams 4 players : Hot tip
Williams 2 players : Lucky seven
Bally 4 players : Freedom,Mata Hari,Evel Knievel
Bally 2 players : Black jack
Chicago coins/Stern 4 players : Pinball
Good day.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Spectacular Sir!

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

Steve Charland (blownfuse) had a prototype Gottieb Solar City with electronics. Still in the Bay Area under the care of another owner.
Machine had electronics that were in place of Relay board. Still used score reels though. Gottlieb was experimenting but never released a Solid State version.

Some where I read that 6 proto types were planned or built.

#32 1 year ago

Why were the rules different on SS vs. EM? What would be a minor difference and the most significant difference in the rules?

#33 1 year ago

Some of the more interesting rules would have been difficult (or too expensive) to implement in an EM game, but very simple in even the early SS games. And with Gottlieb games, six digit scoring instead of 5 digits and 100000 light, allowed for more scoring possibilities, for example bonus multipliers 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x instead of just double or triple bonus.

10
#34 1 year ago

3 rare EM's Gottlieb multiplayers pinballs produced in SS version.

P1080119 (resized).JPG

#35 1 year ago

All Gottlieb System 1 games with chimes or three tone sound board (except Pinball Pool) were made in both EM and SS:

Cleopatra
Sinbad
Joker Poker
Close Encounters
Dragon
Charlie's Angels
Solar Ride
Count-Down (EM version was 1 player T.K.O. or 2 player Space Walk)

Williams did some prototype games with Aztec and Grand Prix, but as far as I know, only games with considerable production are:

Hot Tip
Lucky Seven

Bally also had some games in both EM and SS format:

Black Jack
Evel Knievel
Freedom
Mata Hari
Night Rider

From European manufacturers, I only know that Recel did both EM and SS versions on Poker Plus.

#36 1 year ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

Why were the rules different on SS vs. EM? What would be a minor difference and the most significant difference in the rules?

On EM multiplayers it wasn't impossible, in fact it had been done, but by the late 70s they chose to not have any carry over from ball to ball. What that means is the entire bonus would count down and the playful would completely reset after each ball and start over. So basically every ball played started out the same.

And on the EM Joker Poker for example, once the drop targets got knocked down, they stayed down until the ball was over so basically that was it. The solid state version would reset the targets once down so you could continue on.

What solid state really brought to the table, though I'm not sure how many of these utilized it yet, was memory. So as each player took a turn the playfield could be setup as he left it after his last turn, and not completely reset like all late model multiplayer EMs.

This is why in many cases single player EMs are more popular, because they don't reset after each ball and the game is allowed to progress, although there are a very few older multiplayers with some playfield memory. And why they all but disappeared once solid state took over.

The EM multiplayers I know of that had some sort of playfield or holdover memory prior to this were WMS Piccadilly from 1956, WMS Pit Stop, WMS 8-Ball, and GTB Scuba.

#37 1 year ago
Quoted from OldHockeyGuy:

Has anyone published a comprehensive list of games produced in both formats?

The Mr. Pinball Price Guide has an appendix for parallel games, which includes this as well as 2-player/4-player parallels, replay/add-a-ball, reuses of the same playfield layout, etc.
.................David Marston

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Boomerang was the first SS prototype Bally built in '74 or '75 I believe. Not the first in the industry, but the first from a major player.
In the industry at the time, you either led, followed, or got left behind.

It was Bally Flicker that was the first SS prototype, not Boomerang (although they are the same playfield layout).
image-1 (resized).jpg

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from Ballypin:

It was Bally Flicker that was the first SS prototype, not Boomerang (although they are the same playfield layout).
[quoted image]

Very impressive!

image-7 (resized).jpg
#40 1 year ago

Viza's pin called WAR was released as a solid State pin, but I know of a collector in LA County (Jack G.)
that came across two Viza War pins that were totally ElectroMechanical except for the score displays.

https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&mfgid=333#2753

https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=6337

#41 1 year ago
Quoted from Tuukka:

Count-Down (EM version was 1 player T.K.O.

TKO is not the same PF as SpaceWalk or Countdown,
but presumably there may have been a Prototype single Player of TKO called KnockOut.
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=6366&picno=68614

#42 1 year ago

Wondering if Gottliebs Asteroid Annie was originally to be a mechanical game.?

#43 1 year ago
Quoted from chad:

Wondering if Gottliebs Asteroid Annie was originally to be a mechanical game.?

I have heard that it was made to use up some of the old Sys 1 MPUs left in stock
pasted_image (resized).png
It basically came out almost a year after the (previous) last GTB Sys1 mpu pin

#44 1 year ago
Quoted from pinwiztom:

I have heard that it was made to use up some of the old Sys 1 MPUs left in stock
[quoted image]
It basically came out almost a year after the (previous) last GTB Sys1 mpu pin

Thanks, I forgot it was last in line.

#45 1 year ago

For me, if there could be only one. You can keep the rest.

90e5cc79ba38bab4d62bdf20df3bf77583496761 (resized).jpg

#46 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

For me, if there could be only one. You can keep the rest.
[quoted image]

Impressive! 2 in the same room. You kust need the solid state and home version.

#47 1 year ago
Quoted from chad:

Impressive! 2 in the same room. You kust need the solid state and home version.

Not mine. Way too much money to own one now. Although I could if I wanted it that bad.

It's just got it all. Except shorter flippers which I do prefer in EMs.

Theme- American hero- check
Stylish art package- check
Decent layout with good features- check
Rare and desirable (although not high on my needs list)- 155 units- check
Bally- check

If I was still into owning late 70s EMs, yes, it would be mine. But I do know where to play one not far away.

#48 1 year ago

pins-with-cows Where did you get that Surfer/Surf Champ standee?

standee (resized).png

#49 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

For me, if there could be only one. You can keep the rest.
[quoted image]

The second one is on it's legs now
DSC00845 (resized).JPG

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from BallyCrazy:

The second one is on it's legs now

Perfect opportunity to have 1 set to 3 balls, and the other set to 5 balls.

There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside