(Topic ID: 205324)

KBS Diamond Clearcoat


By Axl

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 46 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 69 days ago by oldskool1969
  • Topic is favorited by 14 Pinsiders

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    #1 1 year ago

    I have seen some pinsiders use the KBS Diamond Clearcoat. What is the verdict? Does it yellow over time?
    I am thinking about painting my Dracula cabinet with createx paints. Since it can be removed with easily with some water I was thinking about giving it a coat of KBS Diamond Clearcoat. Will that work?

    #2 1 year ago

    Bump!

    #3 1 year ago

    This stuff is great. Using a roller is my preferred method and for christ sake read the instructions properly.
    I have only done play fields and some lock down bars.
    Before applying KBS I give a light spray of acrylic satin clear coat to lock in the repaired art work . As the KBS is self levelling make sure you apply on a very level surface or it might drag when curing.
    No dramas yet and still very nice, no yellowing at all.
    Unsure of how it will go commercially but I know that smash repairers use this for small tough ups so need for two pack.
    It is air/ moisture curing so make sure you have the right conditions and seal the unused portion with plastic wrap.

    #4 1 year ago

    Thanks for the input oldskool1969 !
    When did you do the first coating? How long ago.

    Based on the reading I have done it should be possible to do this in the garage without dying from the fumes...

    #5 1 year ago

    My first one was on Dr Dude back in 2013 and it is still going strong, I don't own this title any more but I know the bloke who bought it.
    You need ventilation Dude. Still toxic, again, read instructions well and GOOD LUCK

    #6 1 year ago

    Bump, I'm also interested in hearing more about this stuff.

    1 week later
    #7 1 year ago

    I bought a quart. Will give it a test run when it warms up a bit.

    Are most using it straight from the can, or should it be thinned?

    #8 1 year ago

    Pour what you think you will use into another container and seal the KBS can immediately.
    Only thin if you intend to spray, in my experience.

    #9 1 year ago

    Thanks oldskool. I had planned to use a roller. What is the working time you've experienced? And regarding sealing, I had planned to use something similar to below. They are 8oz each, so I should be able to separate the quart into 4 of these bottles. Good idea or no?

    amazon.com link »

    #10 1 year ago

    I used a foam roller and got a LOT of air bubbles (its also quite humid where i live), and when i spoke to 3 separate paint supply shops who sold the product, they all said i should have brushed it on, as the action of the foam roller introduces air bubbles, where as a slow, smooth brush will introduce a whole lot less.

    #11 1 year ago

    Interesting. I've heard foam roller was the way to go. Did the bubbles level out, or was it something that needed sanding?

    #12 1 year ago

    I had bubbles when foam rolling too! I have sprayed and no drama apart from fxxking up a new nozzle.
    Paint brush I think is the way to go as it is self levelling. Just throw the brush afterwards.
    I keep in original container with cling wrap under lid.
    Apply on a nice moderate temp, dry day.
    End of the day, just have a crack
    Good luck.

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from maffewl:

    Interesting. I've heard foam roller was the way to go. Did the bubbles level out, or was it something that needed sanding?

    It needed serious sanding....then i sanded too much, so ended up sending the playfield t osomeone with more experience than myself.

    #14 1 year ago

    The KBS looks like a very good solution to clear on paper. And with a brush it is easier and less deadly.
    Only thing I am afraid of is yellowing. It would be great if someone had a sample.

    #15 1 year ago

    I've used it twice, I brush it on and thin it down, in my experience straight from the can without thinning you can get brush drag marks and it is more prone to gas bubbles. It is holding up well. I've also done the sides of cabinets with it, looks great

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from Getaway:

    I've used it twice, I brush it on and thin it down, in my experience straight from the can without thinning you can get brush drag marks and it is more prone to gas bubbles. It is holding up well. I've also done the sides of cabinets with it, looks great

    What did you use as thinner? The specific product from KBS or...?

    #17 1 year ago

    Hmm, interesting product.
    Their website shows it available in spray cans of satin or gloss finish. Let's see some application pics! Seems like they are really prompting it's use on bare metal.I have been using spray lacquer (triple thick or Rustoleum version) with good results but long term wear durability may be an issue with the 3xthick. Can't smell any worse!

    #18 1 year ago

    Why would you not use a foam brush? This method takes certain technique when polyurethaning wood. I would think this would work unless that chemical attacked the brush.

    2 weeks later
    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from maffewl:

    What did you use as thinner? The specific product from KBS or...?

    Have you had a chance to try this on a playfield?

    I’ve not used this product, or any clear coat for that matter. But, back when I first heard of the KBS, I do remember seeing this thread where one poster mentions thinning using KBS #1 thinner to 30%.

    https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/49407-Shadow-playfield-restoration-using-DarkSoul-s-KBS-diamond-clear-method?p=623393#post623393

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from pincity:

    Have you had a chance to try this on a playfield?
    I’ve not used this product, or any clear coat for that matter. But, back when I first heard of the KBS, I do remember seeing this thread where one poster mentions thinning using KBS #1 thinner to 30%.
    https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/49407-Shadow-playfield-restoration-using-DarkSoul-s-KBS-diamond-clear-method?p=623393#post623393

    I haven’t had a chance to try it out yet. It’s been too cold here, and I’ve been busy. It’ll probably be a couple months before I’m able to do any testing.

    Also, I did purchase the KBS thinner as well. So, once I’m able to test, I’ll see what dilution works best. I’d be interested to hear from others that have used it before I go testing if anyone has any experiences they want to share.

    #21 1 year ago

    I've been curious about this product as well. jwilson spoke highly of it in another thread, hopefully he can weigh in here on it.

    #22 1 year ago

    I used KBS on my Diner field. It worked pretty well and was easy to apply. I chose to brush it on after thinning to about 30% or so. 2 suggestion with brushing is 1) apply a layer of spray clear first. Dragging a brush could smear your work. 2) Apply in very thin coats and once you brush it out LEAVE IT ALONE. Do not continue to brush it as it self levels nicely. I don't think you have to sand between coats of you do it in a certain time frame ( double check though)

    Only use KBS thinner as it's apparently specially formulated to work with their clear. Even if it is a marketing gimmick, I wasn't about to risk 4 months of playfield restoration to save a few bucks.

    I got pretty decent results but I did have some separating at ball impact points and various places around the field. Not very noticeable during play TBH. Probably because I rushed a bit putting it back together.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-diner-restoration

    #23 1 year ago

    I tried KBS Diamond 3 times already. I always got bad results. Bubbles everywhere which they actually go to the surface so with wet sanding, they pop, but you still get the tiny hole. Tried with different foam rollers and also with the rollers KBS suggested, same result. I never tried brushing.
    What kind of brushes are you guys using?
    Another suggestion, don't use the spray can after the regular can. I did and it was like the whole playfield was frozen and started to lift the previous layer.
    I actually lost months of touch ups.

    I can't wait to have a really good product that can be sprayed and is not toxic like auto clear.

    1 month later
    #24 1 year ago

    Any other comments on this product?

    My kids and I have repainted a playfield by hand and so I need to clear over their (our) work. I'd like something better than Varathane. I've done Spraymax 2K and had good results with it but holy heck the hazmat prep and other requirements is not something I can really handle or plan for.

    The aerosol KBS product sounds more like a spray paint... but then I saw someone else mention it the aerosol does have isocyanates in it like 2PAC / Spraymax so... is that true? If so I guess the brush-on product would work.

    But I'm keen to hear other testimonials.

    #25 1 year ago

    I used it on my custom game and learned a lot. I thinned it 30% with their matches thinner and rolled it. Never had any air bubble issues - don’t push in the roller, just glide.

    I’d also try the pre-spray as well to lock in art - the hot thinner will melt decals if put on too thick.

    Basically follow the same guidelines you’d use with 2PAC including the cure time before sanding. I ended up with some visible grain a few weeks later due to additional curing.

    Way easier than spraying 2PAC.

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    #26 1 year ago

    Thanks for the feedback jwilson. I'm hoping to get to try some of this out this summer. I have the can and thinner ready to go, but just don't have the time at the moment. I'll post my feedback. If any others have photos, suggestions, technique, etc - I'd be interested in knowing more as well before I start.

    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    I used it on my custom game and learned a lot. I thinned it 30% with their matches thinner and rolled it. Never had any air bubble issues - don’t push in the roller, just glide.
    I’d also try the pre-spray as well to lock in art - the hot thinner will melt decals if put on too thick.
    Basically follow the same guidelines you’d use with 2PAC including the cure time before sanding. I ended up with some visible grain a few weeks later due to additional curing.
    Way easier than spraying 2PAC.

    Thanks for sharing.
    2 questions:
    what pre-spray you used?

    what kind of roller you used?

    #28 1 year ago

    Would a foam brush work best, or would it leave streaks? Also, can you clarify "glide" vs "push".

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    I used it on my custom game and learned a lot. I thinned it 30% with their matches thinner and rolled it. Never had any air bubble issues - don’t push in the roller, just glide.

    I’d also try the pre-spray as well to lock in art - the hot thinner will melt decals if put on too thick.

    Thanks for the advice jwilson . There will be lots of insert decal work to come so that is a concern of mine. The pf needs to be coated before decals, and then coated after, so I need something that can be easily done in stages.

    I too would appreciate a little more info on how you applied the brush/roll product. In the past with Varathane I've had decent results with a brush, far better results with a paint applicator / pad... but disastrous results with a roller.

    I have another unique challenge because this particular pf I am working on is for Bad Cats (see this thread, https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/im-taking-my-kids-down-with-me-by-resurrecting-bad-cats)... the big hole for the seafood wheel is an extra issue when it comes to brushing. It basically creates another "start" surface at the bottom and sides of the wheel hole, which needs to be blended. Spray would be better, but... ugh.

    Your results look great though! How does it look now? Is that your own custom art too? I can't say I recognize it... looks pretty cool!

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from dkeruza:

    what pre-spray you used?

    I didn't, and I had to re-do a couple of stencils when I put it on too thick. I like the idea of doing a water-based flat clear first, wish I had thought of it. But if you roll it on *very thin* it won't wreck the decals, and you can build up a couple of layers then lay it on thick. Note that Createx paint is fine no matter how thick you put it on.

    what kind of roller you used?

    Cheap dollar-store foam roller - the kind that is usually a dense white foam with a plastic tube in the middle.

    Quoted from goingincirclez:

    The pf needs to be coated before decals, and then coated after, so I need something that can be easily done in stages.

    In my case, I didn't coat before doing decals and it worked fine, they lay flat on the "bumpy" Createx paints. I'd recommend pre-filling all the inserts though, I didn't and I had some paint issues that needed correction, also decals over inserts works better when flat with no gaps.

    I too would appreciate a little more info on how you applied the brush/roll product.

    I used a small tray to semi-saturate the roller.

    IMG_5706 (resized).jpg

    Then roll it on without applying any pressure to the roller - just let it roll on under its own weight. I had more problems with crap in the clear due to my dirty working environment than bubbles. I did 8 coats total - two thin then six thick. I used half a can total.

    Your results look great though! How does it look now? Is that your own custom art too? I can't say I recognize it... looks pretty cool!

    Thanks. It looks "okay" now, but I only say that because some of the woodgrain is visible because I sanded and polished too soon after drying and it wasn't 100% cured yet. So operator error. It's fine for what I'm doing, it's a custom re-theme with my own art.

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from maffewl:

    Would a foam brush work best, or would it leave streaks? Also, can you clarify "glide" vs "push".

    I used a foam brush as well, when it's thinned 30% it's basically water so it levels out really well. When I used the roller, I just held the handle and pulled it along rather than pushing down. The roller will hold a surprising amount of the clear, you can usually coat the whole thing with two rolls in the tray if you push down while loading the roller.

    3 months later
    #32 1 year ago

    Ah, someone else linked this thread in another one, and I forgot to follow up here.

    TLDR: I tried foam rolling, and it was an utter disaster... by far the worst results I've ever had, and I've had lots of compliments from my results with Varathane and a *brush*.

    But the KBS DFC *aerosol* product was great, and I would probably use it again.

    I also rescued my project by thinning the regular KBS product, and spraying it with a HVLP sprayer. Overall I'm very pleased with the results. A few weeks and a solid hundred or so plays in so far, durability seems solid. Of course only time will tell.

    For more on my experience and results, you can pick up my resto thread here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/im-taking-my-kids-down-with-me-by-resurrecting-bad-cats#post-4382660

    3 weeks later
    #33 1 year ago

    Update. I've now tried rolling, brushing, wiping... you name it... bubbles. I've thinned it to 30%, 50%, and even further. I do not see how this stuff can ever be used for its intended purpose. Bubbles, bubbles everywhere.

    If anyone has had success and/or may have means or methods that I haven't tried, please send them as I have plenty of the stuff left to test. However, I've pretty much given up on using this as a clearcoat for a playfield.

    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from maffewl:

    Update. I've now tried rolling, brushing, wiping... you name it... bubbles. I've thinned it to 30%, 50%, and even further. I do not see how this stuff can ever be used for its intended purpose. Bubbles, bubbles everywhere.
    If anyone has had success and/or may have means or methods that I haven't tried, please send them as I have plenty of the stuff left to test. However, I've pretty much given up on using this as a clearcoat for a playfield.

    My wife is an Auburn fan..

    O'Reillys sells fairly inexpensive 2 part clear. Use that, a decent sized compressor, and a Harbor Freight under $20 automotive spray gun.

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from Joey_N:

    My wife is an Auburn fan..
    O'Reillys sells fairly inexpensive 2 part clear. Use that, a decent sized compressor, and a Harbor Freight under $20 automotive spray gun.

    Tell her "War Eagle!"

    As for the clear, I don't have (nor really know) the proper safety equipment for spraying 2PAC. From my understanding, it's super dangerous stuff. KBS seemed to be a great substitute, but I can't make it work.

    #36 1 year ago

    Maybe there's something about your batch?

    I've used two cans now, roll-on application, zero bubble problems. I thin 3 and saturate the foam, then gently roll.

    #37 1 year ago
    Quoted from goingincirclez:

    The aerosol KBS product sounds more like a spray paint... but then I saw someone else mention it the aerosol does have isocyanates in it like 2PAC / Spraymax so... is that true?

    If you're using the aerosol product or thinning and spraying the regular KBS product it requires the same safety precautions as 2pac.

    https://www.kbs-coatings.com.au/how-to-workshop/technical-guides/diamond-finish-clearcoat-instructions/

    #38 1 year ago

    I tried doing something similar to this once pouring Polycrylic onto a pf like I was baking a cake. It really didn't turn out that bad but using pure acrylic is not recommended it's way too brittle when it dries. You want something that is soft but hard and most enamels. lacquer and modern 2 part urethane clear coat systems are just too hard, when you're wrenching on your pf it will crack and creek like you were in a haunted house...hence all the clear repair kits and stuff. I have not yet seen a automotive grade 2 pak urethane clear coat system that is either too hard or too soft.

    Spraymax2K is a perfect blend of soft resins and tough acrylics and is just perfect for playfields, it wont dimple on a ball drop up to 6 feet but will dimple over that which is what you want instead of it cracking! You can drill into it without fear of cracking. Essentially its the same recipe as bulletproof glass. This is all I use to clear pfs and my customers love it as much as I do, it's been on all my playfields and I've tested it extensively with over 1K plays on my PZ documented here on Pinside with not 1 dimple or crack in the finish!

    10 months later
    #39 71 days ago

    Bump.

    #40 70 days ago

    Just wanted to follow-up to some of my original posts. I've tried just about every type of application for the liquid version of this as I wanted to avoid the health precautions of spraying it. I've brushed, rolled, poured, cut, diluted, etc. No matter what I did... oh, the bubbles. Bubbles, bubbles, bubbles everywhere. I don't see how there is a viable way to use the liquid version for playfields. My .02.

    #41 70 days ago

    You are doing it too thick, too long in between coats or in high humidity.

    #42 70 days ago
    Quoted from oldskool1969:

    You are doing it too thick, too long in between coats or in high humidity.

    I still have quite a bit of this and would love to be wrong. I've tried thin, thick, and everything in between. If you have a method that works, I beg you to post a video showing how it's done. I can't see how this can possibly be used for playfields from my testing.

    #43 70 days ago
    Quoted from maffewl:

    I still have quite a bit of this and would love to be wrong. I've tried thin, thick, and everything in between. If you have a method that works, I beg you to post a video showing how it's done. I can't see how this can possibly be used for playfields from my testing.

    What is your relative humidity?

    #44 69 days ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    What is your relative humidity?

    He lives in Alabama......usually VERY high!

    #45 69 days ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    What is your relative humidity?

    Dog's breath.

    #46 69 days ago

    Unfortunately there is the problem, it is a moisture cured product.

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