They don't need to go to Tron, but they definitely need to simplify it a little. Right now there are 15 modes that you can't stack, you have to beat 7 modes to get to one wizard, and 8 modes to get to the other. Re-qualification is a PITA, and you reset the modes with no progression. Yes, it is too hard.

It's really difficult to answer this question. I was playing last night, and I just had a couple of bad games and shut it off. But, then I just sit there and look at the machine and say "damn that thing...I want another game."

So, to answer your question. Yeah, it's frustrating and hard. But, it's gonna be one of those games like LOTR and TSPP where you're gonna need to own it for awhile.

My biggest frustration is that I think as soon as you start hero mode you should automatically get the save ball option.

I'm not sure adding any more multi-ball would be the best thing because I think things would just start breaking then.

It's "too hard" in the sense that you can only accomplish one thing at a time (aside from Stacking Magneto Multi w/ a mode). Heroes come and go pretty quickly, but Villains lock you in for quite a fight. If they keep the hero modes open to stack with a running Villain mode...and decrease the required shots to finish a Villain, that alone would solve a lot in keeping the game more lively.

It's not too hard rather than unbalanced. Superhero modes are fairly easy to complete and the villains damn near impossible! Hopefully with the new code they will introduce some control of this as far as shots made to complete or progression for villains.

Villians are not hard at all. What is hard is qualifying and then beating the the two villian MB.

Villains are too hard, on factory settings anyway. I have no doubt it will be a winner when they finish the code.

I said it before and I'll say it again. There's no synergy between heroes and villains. Allow stacking and make villains modes a timed point based mode rather than a 'must complete' mode. Keep heroes as the 'must complete' route.

I've actually had an easier time defeating Brotherhood than some of the 1-ball Villain modes! In Brotherhood, the first shot you take on a baddie, that shot starts to flash fast and if you hit the same shot instead of the others, it will kill them instantly. Do this a few times and you can blow through it!

The influx of people saying Villians are too hard is also largely from the newer people to the hobby it seems. Imho anyway.

I am not saying there a cake walk but certainly no different then most recent mode based stern games.

And with the comment i made above how many of people that say its to hard actually time them out rather than drain. When i say time out i mean use the whole 45 seconds to take shots rather than drain? Because if you are using the whole time and making shots than you need to get better at the shots. If your draining than well that has nothing to do with what mode your in at the time.

That is not accurate IMO. I've heard plenty of seasoned pinheads voice this opinion it has nothing to do with being new.

I think adding villain progression would be a good idea as the current code completing all the villains is too hard. Also, counting hits on brotherhood and hellfire in none multiball modes (or at least some) would probably be a good idea as well. I don't mind playing tough games myself but I have to admit I do not like Wizard modes that none elite players will never see like with LOTR.

I like the game but yes it seem impossible to complete all modes with the timer

Using pinside to gather my info and seasoned pinheads often admit to not being good players as well. It needs progression but its nowhere near as bad as the whole game that is known as TF

You said has something to do with being 'newer people to the hobby' not players that are not good.

I would consider myself a decent player and I think the Villain modes as they are now are too difficult for none elite players to concur.

_{Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : Okay if not good at least decent} .

I agree with TDA. I also mentioned in the past that the villain modes should be set up a lot like tv modes in FGY as well as tv wiz mode.

I still stand by that statement too because if you dig threw the xmen thread and note how many people chimed in to say this is my 1st game ever or something to that effect seemingly also say its to hard.

If we are gonna go this route lets not blanket it ALL villans. What modes are too hard? Sentinals i beat 80% of the time. Sabre tooth is even higher dare i say. Shadow king has a set pattern. It has like 4 if i remember once you see th first two shots its easy to go back and say ok this is pattern c next shot is logan. Omega red is a pia. Starting the MB is a pia unless you gun for those targets.
I find Jugs to be the easiest of all villain modes with damn near 95% completion on every start.

I dont focus on villans though. Honestly i avoid them because there full of ropiness

Hard modes are nothing new. I can barely finish the modes in Shadow. Witch King in LOTR is hard as f*ck. I don't think the difficulty is the issue...it's the lack of stacking. I don't think most players mind the fact that they'll never get to the ultimate wizard mode, as long as there's tons of stuff to do along the way. The fact that X-Men locks you into 1 mode at a time (more or less) puts more of a focus on the importance of completion, and makes ya feel kinda poopy if you fail. I think people wouldn't feel this way if you were jamming on multiple modes and tasks simultaneously...which is what happens in "impossible" games like LOTR and TSPP and we don't hold the difficulty against them.

Agreeded. Stacking should be the biggest change in the next update. Lets see a show of hands slash keyboards here on who gets to DR often. I know i do with 7 out of 10 games ending in DR or being less than 5 shots away from DR.

I only bring this up because if you are not completing the Heroes to get to DR than yes the Villains are to hard for YOU i think. Thats not a rib either but kinda the truth. So dont take it personally people!

Some villains modes are harder than others.
Sabretooth is a PITA because shots to the left side invariably skim Wolvie and switch the targets to the other side without making the shot. Very annoying. And I moved my Wolvie over. The best way (for me) is cyclops to storm or rogue combo.
Sentinels are easy.
Jughead and SK aren't bad. Problem with Jughead is shots from right flipper do no damage.
Omega Red is too difficult IMO. Do you really have to save the entire team from one dude?
Brotherhood is not hard but getting there only happens on long games.
I have yet to play Hellfire in a normal game.

Progression in Villain Modes, and Hero Mode restart being easier would fix the 'too hard' issue as far as I'm concerned. Or, make Danger Room begin with required shots to started but unfinished Heroes.

-Wes

Also, Hellfire and Brotherhood are both easy to get to, you just have to concentrate on those shots at the beginning of the game.

-Wes

Well I am not going to get into the percentages you listed for completion. But Omega Red is very tough. Getting the two multiball modes involves some risky repetitive shots. Jugs takes a decent amount of shots to complete. Also Sentinals is no gimmie mode it requires a lot of hits and with the more shots taken the higher chance of draining so that is why I would say it is no gimmie. Saber tooth is probably the easiest but also has it's dangers like hitting Wolverine in the wrong spot. Shadow King can be tough if you don't know what your shooting for can you please explain your approach to the mode a bit more I didn't understand what you said about it.

Also, I would argue it is important to blanket all villains together because that is what it takes to get to Dark Phoenix. As a whole right now all of them added together is just too tough for none elite players to reach. While some modes don't have hard shots to hit necessarily they have a lot of shots you need to hit and when you add them together it is just too tough. Especially considering the unpredictability of this pin with 2 magnets throwing the ball around and one pretty close to the flippers. Stacking and/or progression (I'd lean towards progression here) would be a great addition IMO and make for a funner game.

Omega Red and Shadow King need to be simplified
Sabretooth should have shots to Wolverine count for more damage.
Sentinels is fine.
Juggernaut is fine, although maybe 1-2 fewer shots would be better
Beating the two multiballs isn't too bad once you understand the rules, requalification should be easier.

-Wes

He has 3-4 specific Pattern. Pattern A starts off with Jean then moves to cyclops then to logan etc. Another starts off with Storm then moves to Rogue etc. I can slide the glass off later and right them all down but there is for sure a pattern and its not random.

I dont think there should be any re-qualification it should stay unlocked.

I honestly rarely play it because as of now the higher end stuff is just broken. I am waiting till they fix all the Wizard shit and change the scoring strategies . Its still very much a broken game.

Why not make it like most games where you have easy villain, medium villain, hard villain, and Boss Villain? Same with the heroes. I'm hoping they go to this point.

When you play a fighting game not every Villain should be Geese.

no he is to easy every villian should be mizuki

This is accurate. HOWEVER, it is also the reason villain modes should not be 'must complete' modes. Could you imagine if you had to complete every ring mode to get to TABA? Rofl.

I agree with all of this. The Danger Room mode is just goofy right now, I assume Dark Phoenix is too, there is no Deadpool mode from what i can tell, no Combo Champ, no Combo awards, no bonus multiplier that's not from random award, scoring is all over the place, and basic light shows for multiball start.

-Wes

Yup. The code is a mess. And that's what it boils down to. Will they half fast it and implement everything but make it sloppy? Or will they pay attention to detail and get it nice and polished.

Considering its a POWERpack update, my bet is it will have lots of disorganized code which will be fine tuned and polished in its POWERpack II update Xmas of 2013 lol

OK so then please don't take this post personally

On one hand you are defending the X-Men Villain modes as not being hard and essentially telling the newbies to play better and make shots and that you make DR 7/10 times and you have a high percentage completion on some Villain modes. Looks like you can play X-Men pretty well. Good for you

On the other hand you have repeatedly condemned TF's lack of mb progression and "the roadblock" because it evidently gives you fits. So that part of TFLE gameplay has your number.

I don't think you'd like the players who do make it through the TF multiballs w/o needing progression to tell you to play better and learn to make your shots.

Just an observation

Oh, and I'll raise my hand to your who makes it to DR question. I admit I am not a 7/10 DR guy like you, but do I get extra credit for making DR on ball one?

My boss told me a few months back that when you start off an email/post...with "don't take it personally."....they're automatically GONNA take it personally.

Also it's good to avoid..."With all due respect."

Game Difficulty should be driven by menu options. Awesome players like AkumaZeto can set everything to EXTRA HARD and it makes it EXTRA HARD and he can love it, I can set it to SUPER EASY and be able to do everything in one ball, one handed, one eye open and half drunk. UNfortunately, these setting have almost always been phoned-in and only adjust timers instead of # of shots...

-Wes

it gets mainly condemned because at that point that is all there is. I have been to sentinel before so thats not the issue.

Wouldn't say awesome but i would say solid B in tourny mode

No way I'm getting to DR 7/10 games, I did start it on the second ball once though.

I will say 7/10 times I'm stopped from getting to danger room by the iceman ramp being a bitch!

I also think Wolverine's mode was kinda slapped together, the left hand shots are unmakable other than beast. The other two are combos so the only way to hit them is to hit the right shots to set them up, which unlights everything. Not much though put into how the sides are broken up imo. I used to like the mode now it bothers me.

Other than the iceman shot, which I've got a mental block on now after having been screwed by the ramp soooo many times, I can hit most any shot when I want and almost always have control of the ball. I consider myself a good player, but think the villain modes are too hard. Yeah I can beat Juggs Sentinels and Sabertooth pretty regular, but it takes way too many shots.

On the counter, I think the hero modes are mostly too easy maybe.

In the grand scheme of things none of it bothers me much anymore and I really enjoy the game, just needs to be tuned in code and play wise.

I've said it plenty before, but anyone not enjoying the game really needs to just keep playing it, it has a weird way of growing on you and ends up being way more fun that you'd think it would ever be after just playing 10-20 games.

If I were to rank it on my own scale, it would have started around 9 the first week, dropped to 7.5 after the crappy code sunk in, and has been working its way back to 9 for me steadily.

I don't get to play it much the last few weeks, but put two games on it last weekend and while I knew I already liked it, I was surprised with how much fun I had playing.

I suck at pinball. That said, I'd far rather own a machine that's hard to complete so that there's always something new to see. When I owned Tron I never saw anything past Sea Of Simulation, but it was nice to know it was there.

Why would they do that? I honestly don't understand why games have a ball saver except for the ball opening myself.

No need to pull your punches. It's too tough for anyone. I still haven't heard of ANYONE getting to Dark Phoenix and I would really like to see a video of it happening....but I honestly don't think it has happened with the glass on for anyone.

I do not think this type game was made for beginners. Look at TZ when it came out. Wish I got some distributor dumps on that title NIB for like $2500.

I really like the game I think some of the voice work is less than to be desired.
Any QC issues I have experienced thus far are very minor and easily fixed.

I want my games hard to beat otherwise I would bore easily with them.
Everyone likes something different about pins. Some like fast and tight some fast and loose. Some like slow with easily made shots. I would like a little of all of it but in different pins. This pin is tight fast and difficult and I am glad I added it to my collection I am sure the mega update by "christmas" will make the game tremendously better. Recent track record with updates have made great themed average games into top 10-20 pins.

If you love the pin great enjoy I know I will.

If you don't I am sure you have sold it or you are selling it. I hope you really enjoy your next game and it is everything you ever wanted.

Have a wonderful day all

totally agree. The villains are tough to beat, needs saved progression.

yes. i'm starting to have the opposite of fun .

Or, my preference would be, they include a new 2 ball multi which is stackable and workably achieved if you focus on it when in need. Basically it needs a Gollum multiball to address the lack of stacking and depth. It needs a lot more than that in terms of tweaking, timing, Ice man ramp, etc, but as for 'too hard' I think adding a Gollum feature goes a long way towards a remedy, without decreasing the amount of required shots for mode completetion and all that...

I posted this on another forum and really did not feel like typing my thoughts again-sorry for cut and paste, but my opinion has not changed under V1.2 code

Start post---

A game should not ENCOURAGE a player to time out a mode. For example, to play Danger Room, your best bet is to stay away from playing Villains at all. But if you get trapped in a Villain mode, just time it out instead of risking loss of a ball during a 60 second mode.

This is a flaw.

One could argue that you should just keep playing no matter what since you want Dark Phoenix. It is likely a player will eventually reach Danger Room with enough plays, and it will take longer to reach Dark Phoenix since it is a harder objective, so most people are gunning for Danger Room first so they can see some of the larger prizes. So to do that, you figure out your best strategy to do it. Timing out Villains to reach Danger Room is the strategy.

Playing Villains does squat toward Danger Room. You can't stack Villains and Heroes so no help there. You can't use Wolverine MB with Villains, so again, no help. At least you can use Magneto with Heroes, but every Hero completion is obtainable w/o help of a multiball, so no major benefit in stacking there if Danger Room is your goal.

I can see that the X-Men goal was to incorporate a little bit of the TF idea of good guy and bad guy modes. But on TF, you pick your path at first and then through skillful play you cross over to the other faction. (PITA, but it can be done). You never want to time out/ignore a TF mode if reaching Sentinel Prime and ultimately Cybertron is your goal. You have to finish them. You could argue that if you play the opposite faction mb, then you could time that out, but eventually you will want the SJP. Besides you 100% can use the opposite faction multiball with a mode for your faction so you can advance. That is good.

The TF fundamental flaw was the lack of mb progression/roadblock which made it very hard to cross over to the other side particularly Autobot to Decepticon (the other way is much easier). (Dead horse, yes, but needed to be brought up to compare the 2 rulesets.) But again, the point is, there was no mode for the opposite faction that you would volunteer to time out like X-Men leaving the game in dead time.

To bring it all back to X-Men, it is unlikely that a player will see BOTH DR and DP in one game, with only a single EB available. So a player is picking a path like TF, but both paths are available at the same time unlike TF. Hence I maintain people will figure out to just pick one at first to see the prize for the faction (Villain or Hero). Once a player becomes more skilled, they may opt to play more things out, but any way you look at it, timing out is encouraged because you will likely be more successful on one faction over the other, so hurry along to the multiball prize you have a better shot at and ignore the other path.

IMO, that is the fundamental rule flaw in the X-Men game.

A suggestion I emailed to Borg was...

There should be some kind of 'Smart Bomb' that is earned throughout the game. This 'Smart Bomb' (or what ever you wanna call it) would significantly damage your opponent and it should be Hero\Villain mode specific. Also...it should be something that is earned and not just awarded.

What would be cool is if you finish a Hero..to get a SB for a Villain mode. Lets say this SB reduces the Villain 'strength' by 25%. If you finish a Villain mode...you get a SB for a Hero mode. Lets say this SB reduced the Hero mode by one hit.

I think they would have to add some elements to most the hero's...especially Rouge and Xavier.

My best guess is a SB could be used by holding the right flipper button..and pressing the start button

I would certainly make playing both modes an important option

I also think they should award a 'carryover.' Some this would be an award...maybe completing a Super Skill Shot (Storm, Cyclopes then Rouge?). This 'carryover' would allow you to begin a Villain where you left off. Being you choose your Villain anyway...given you an option to carryover (if you have a carryover award) should be easily implemented

Either way I'm enjoying the hell out of the game!

+1, I would like to see stacking. Gives an extra strategy/depth to the game.

Would love to see the combo points too.

On the progression thing, I'm kind of torn. Monster Bash doesn't have saved progression on the instruments, but it is very easy to get them. X-men modes are a million times harder, so the progression is blamed for not making the Wizard Mode.

How much easier would stacking make completing the modes? It makes Monster Bash a super easy game. Really hard finding a balance of too hard of a game, versus too easy of a game.

Again, I don't think difficulty of modes is the real issue. The fact that it isolates you to one mode at a time makes you focus on completion as your reward vs. the journey itself. If the game had more modes & goals running simultaneously, you'd be too busy getting a variety of exciting responses from those shots to care so much about not "winning". 99% of players will never see TSPP's ultimate wizard mode, but it doesn't matter due to the fun of all the stacking to keep you entertained. I think this is precisely why AC/DC is pulling us in....every shot and feature is always open and lit, there's nuance of combos and building jackpots, and you can stack 3 multiballs. No one can get to Encore, but it doesn't really bother anyone.

Yeah, that's how I felt a month ago, it's just taking some people longer to get to that point.

Well said.

I'm mostly in agreement with this, and I think this is one reason that X-Men isn't as fun or as satisfying as it could be. I played one again this last weekend and my feelings on the pin hasn't changed. The scoring is terrible too, far too linear, very little strategy to scoring big points, no risk/reward, no bonus multipliers, no combo's, etc. A major code update is needed badly.

Agree-

The mini-wizard modes on TSPP is what made TSPP. Springfield mystery spot, pretzel multi-ball, etc..., were obtainable and I knew I could never get the the Super Duper mode, so I was fine with that.

Haven't played enough AC/DC to have a comment on it, but most people do like the rule set it seems. The people I personally know that own it, love it, so that speaks volumes for me.

I don't know if its the code or not...I just find the pin unenjoyable overall.

I'm starting to agree with you. I wouldn't call it a bad decision to buy the game but there are other things out there for me potentially as well.

We'll see what the update brings. It's like selling Apple shares in 1997...there's nothing to lose by holding on for now.

I really enjoy the game but I agree, it could be way better. The next code update, I think, will sink or elevate this game. At least for me it will.