(Topic ID: 257857)

Genie System 1 Will Not Boot.

By Genieye

4 years ago


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  • 188 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by pinmike
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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There are 188 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#51 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

They may have been removed during ground modifications...Didnt you solder the tilt switch together?

Just the slam switch in the coin door. The slam switches do not seem to effect the Ni-Wumpf board. I am going to check them again though. The old board played with the ball switch disconnected. Possible that that switch might be causing a problem on the newer board??? Wouldn't that be some S$$T! Here is a photo of the Tilt relay. it looks newer and like it had been replaced. I do not think there are coils associated with it.

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#52 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

The old board played with the ball switch disconnected. Possible that that switch might be causing a problem on the newer board???

Yes that is possible,since the game is in your house i really dont see any reason to keep the tilt switch connected.Looking at that pic i see a very long screw going through that switch.Is that screw touching metal near that coil?Plus there's a red/white wire that is wired to a orange/white wire

#53 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Yes that is possible,since the game is in your house i really dont see any reason to keep the tilt switch connected.Looking at that pic i see a very long screw going through that switch.Is that screw touching metal near that coil?Plus there's a red/white wire that is wired to a orange/white wire

I checked the slam switches. The one on the ball cage might possibly have of been opening but its not now. I do not think that was causing it. I played 6 games until it went to Tilt. PF goes dark and Tilt light is on. With the old CPU the game just quit not like a tilt. It did not do that so far playing which is why I got the new board to test so that is a great thing as we thought the CPU was causing it. Looks like it was at least so far. Wow those switch screws are close to the plate on both the Game Over and Tilt relays but not touching. There are 2 red/purple wires to the leads on both of the relays. There are numerous switches on both relays so I am not about to play with them.

Plan is to drive to Marco to pick up the driver and coils tomorrow. I will give you an update. I am hoping for a Pinball Christmas Miracle to have this working 100% by then. Without your help I would not have had a chance! Thanks Mike!

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

I took the coil off and tested the resistance putting each lead on each lug. The VM is set to 200 and I get a reading of 0.8 If I set the VM to 2000 it reads 00.0 which seems shorted??

Sorry if this has been mentioned but those coil lugs look dangerously close to the frame. Any chance they are shorting against the metal frame?

Gottlieb_DT_Coil1.jpgGottlieb_DT_Coil1.jpg

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Sorry if this has been mentioned but those coil lugs look dangerously close to the frame. Any chance they are shorting against the metal frame?
[quoted image]

Man, what a good pick up! The crazy thing is that both coils are like that! Some lugs are touching, others are so close. I looked at the other smaller drop target coil and the lugs are a good 1/4 inch above the casing. How can that not short? Those coils and drop targets worked perfectly until I put the new targets in and put the box back on. That would certainly explain the spark and blown fuse when I touched those wires.

I am taking a drive to Marco tomorrow to pick up the coils and driver. I hope you can just go there and pick up things. I am going bring that coil and assembly with me and ask them about it. I hope the replacement coil has some room between the lug and case. Thanks for bringing that to my attention and I will follow up here to what I find out.

#56 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

I am taking a drive to Marco tomorrow to pick up the coils and driver.

According to the diagram pinmike attached in post #41, those drop target reset coils are part number A-18102

I'm afraid to say it looks like Marco's is out of stock.. If you look at their link below, their spec says it should read 9 ohms without the diode.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=A-18102

Still, if you live close by it's worth the drive down just incase they have hidden stock.

But I would also be looking at making sure those lugs can never short on the metal case.

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Sorry if this has been mentioned but those coil lugs look dangerously close to the frame. Any chance they are shorting against the metal frame?
[quoted image]

Thank you for spotting that yes it is very close to that frame

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

I checked the slam switches. The one on the ball cage might possibly have of been opening but its not now. I do not think that was causing it. I played 6 games until it went to Tilt. PF goes dark and Tilt light is on. With the old CPU the game just quit not like a tilt. It did not do that so far playing which is why I got the new board to test so that is a great thing as we thought the CPU was causing it. Looks like it was at least so far. Wow those switch screws are close to the plate on both the Game Over and Tilt relays but not touching. There are 2 red/purple wires to the leads on both of the relays. There are numerous switches on both relays so I am not about to play with them.
Plan is to drive to Marco to pick up the driver and coils tomorrow. I will give you an update. I am hoping for a Pinball Christmas Miracle to have this working 100% by then. Without your help I would not have had a chance! Thanks Mike!

Ok buddy post back

#59 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Sorry if this has been mentioned but those coil lugs look dangerously close to the frame. Any chance they are shorting against the metal frame?

Good catch! I'm wondering if there is supposed to be some sort of insulator mounted between the coil and the metal frame, perhaps something like the fish paper that's used on certain switches?

#60 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

I'm wondering if there is supposed to be some sort of insulator mounted between the coil and the metal frame, perhaps something like the fish paper

You'd kind of think so wouldn't you? Surely it didn't leave the factory like that. Surprised they didn't modify the metal plate a little to eliminate the chance of any short ever occurring.

#61 4 years ago

Hello all, Just an update. We are having monsoonal rains in SC and after speaking with them I decided not to drive to Marco. Called them and they were extremely helpful with coil diagnostics and helped me a lot in general. We determined that the R coil is bad and I was fortunate that he was able to find one to send me as they were out of stock. I was able to move both coils away from the casing to prevent sorting. That was definitely happening and probably caused this whole problem. Thanks so much Quench for picking that up!! Here is a pic of the adjusted coil.

Supposedly when we read across the lugs without the coil soldered it is supposed to read 9+. With the coil connected it is reading 5.6. The Left coil is fine.
The R coil was reading 0.5 so we determined the coil must be shorted so a new one is on the way along with a driver board.

This is what is perplexing! I removed and replaced the old diode on the bad coil think why not a new one coming. Now it is reading the same as the good one?? So I am thinking is is possible the diode was bad and I fixed the coil?

Back it goes on and POOF blown fuse. Curses.

Granted the coil might be bad but I was able to get it reading correctly with a new diode. My question is:

Could the Right coil be wired incorrectly?? So far everyone has said its correct but would you all take another good look here? Wouldn't that be something if it was wired wrong all the time and that is why it is shorting. Here is a close up of the R coil. The two 18G Orange/Brown wires are going to the left lug and the smaller 20G Brown/Gray are going to the R lug. Is that correct?

Here is also a pic of the L coil that seems to be fine. One Orange/Brown to the left lug and two smaller brown/gray to the right lug. This look ok?? I wish I could find a photo of a Genie showing these coils. You all have been incredible. Thanks for continuing to help me out and hope to get some feedback on this.

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#62 4 years ago

Remember when reconnecting the wires to the coil that the power wire (usually two wires or thicker wires) goes to the coil's lug with the BANDED side of the diode attached. The thinner wire is the coil's return path to ground via the driver transistor and attaches to the coil lug with the non-banded side of the diode attached.

#63 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Remember when reconnecting the wires to the coil that the power wire (usually two wires or thicker wires) goes to the coil's lug with the BANDED side of the diode attached. The thinner wire is the coil's return path to ground via the driver transistor and attaches to the coil lug with the non-banded side of the diode attached.

Hi Mike, Here are the pics of the 2 coils before anything was any of them was unsoldered. Doesn't it show the 2 thicker wires on the opposite side of the Band? On both coils the band is on the right and the thicker wires to the left. On the L coil the thicker wire is on the left side of the coil and band on the right? On the R coil both thicker wires are again on the left lug and the diode band on the right? The wires do not even seem long enough to go the other way. Whatcha think? Thanks

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#64 4 years ago

Hi buddy,Yes everything looks good from the pics

#65 4 years ago

Quick question buddy I was just looking over your pics and the second pic of that coil I zoomed in on that diode and it looks toasted or dirt build up.It may still be good but you did mention your receiving 2 new coils right?

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Quick question buddy I was just looking over your pics and the second pic of that coil I zoomed in on that diode and it looks toasted or dirt build up.It may still be good but you did mention your receiving 2 new coils right?

It is the R coil that is bad which is the second picture. I would have bought 2 but was lucky to get one as they were out of stock but I called and they found one to send which was fantastic of them to do. Lucky. I never had a problem with the first pic or L coil. I really hope this plus the new driver takes care of it. I won't get anything delivered until the day after Christmas but not bad. Fed Ex 2 day. I will certainly let you know who it works out. Thanks for all!

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

It is the R coil that is bad which is the second picture. I would have bought 2 but was lucky to get one as they were out of stock but I called and they found one to send which was fantastic of them to do. Lucky. I never had a problem with the first pic or L coil. I really hope this plus the new driver takes care of it. I won't get anything delivered until the day after Christmas but not bad. Fed Ex 2 day. I will certainly let you know who it works out. Thanks for all!

Ok sounds good sorry we didn't make it in time before Christmas

#68 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Ok sounds good sorry we didn't make it in time before Christmas

The Christmas Miracle has happened!!! At least so far. I called Fed Ex and they made sure it got on the truck for today! So I just have to pray that it is the coil and not some other quirky problem that's causing the short. I now have a new CPU and Driver as of today so as long as the coils is good so should the Genie be. I will know later while I am drinking my spiked eggnog! This has been quite the journey and story. What an ending to have it working on Christmas Eve!

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

The Christmas Miracle has happened!!! At least so far. I called Fed Ex and they made sure it got on the truck for today! So I just have to pray that it is the coil and not some other quirky problem that's causing the short. I now have a new CPU and Driver as of today so as long as the coils is good so should the Genie be. I will know later while I am drinking my spiked eggnog! This has been quite the journey and story. What an ending to have it working on Christmas Eve!

Wow! That would be Awesome i'm glad and hoping you will receive them today

#70 4 years ago

I cannot believe it! I installed the new board and coil but the upper drop target coils will not energize!! New board new coil. The fuse is not blowing now so the coil is not shorted. Is there another fuse or something else to check. Help guys. I was so lucky to get the coil before Christmas and it still wont work.

#71 4 years ago

Hmmmm,This is really strange i don't remember if genie uses/has a under-the-playfield transistor board.Look in the manual at the board section and see if there is a transistor board that goes under the playfied

#72 4 years ago

I run a coil test and everything energizes except those 2 coils. Man this has been grueling.

#73 4 years ago

Genie does not use a under the playfield transistor board,Let's try this to just verify pull that fuse out and test with meter

#74 4 years ago

There are other system1 fuses beside the bottom board fuses, all mounted under the playfield. There is usually a fuse for the pop bumpers and other major coil items like drop target reset banks.

#75 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

There are other system1 fuses beside the bottom board fuses, all mounted under the playfield. There is usually a fuse for the pop bumpers and other major coil items like drop target reset banks.

I have tested all the lower fuses, the 2 Main 2a fuses and the one 2a under the playing field. All good. The one under the playing field was blowing with the old coil but not now. Why aren't these coils getting power??? I run the test watching them all pop. These nothing!

#76 4 years ago

Let's test Bridge Rectifiers.

Step 1.
Set the DMM to diode test, and the first step is to put the red DMM lead on the ground lug of the bridge. (On system1 games the ground lug is easy to find, as it's the one with the green wire attached.) Then put the black DMM lead on each of the bridge lugs next to the ground lug (the AC bridge lugs.) A value of .4 to .6 volts should be seen on the DMM. Anything outside that range indicates a bad bridge rectifier.step 2 is next post
s80br1 (resized).jpgs80br1 (resized).jpg

#77 4 years ago

For step two of the test, put the black DMM lead on the positive output of the bridge. This is again easy to find as it's the bridge lead diagonal to the ground lug. (Also on newer bridges the positive output lug is set 90 degrees off from the other three lugs.) Then put the red DMM lead on each of the bridge lugs adjacent to the positive output lug (again the AC bridge lugs.) A value of .4 to .6 volts should be seen on the DMM. Anything outside that range indicates a bad bridge rectifier.

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#78 4 years ago

There are 7 switches, one for each drop target. It is not until all the targets are down that the coils energizes. Those switches came off when I replaced the drop targets. That would make sense that if one of those switches are not showing closed then the coil will not energize. correct?? I am checking those. I bet one of the wires is not soldered and the switch is OPEN. That has it be it!!!

#79 4 years ago

Thanks Mike going to check those as well but the switches were moved all around when taking the box on and off a couple times. Mike you are awesome!! I cannot thank you enough.

#80 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

There are 7 switches, one for each drop target. It is not until all the targets are down that the coils energizes. Those switches came off when I replaced the drop targets. That would make sense that if one of those switches are not showing closed then the coil will not energize. correct?? I am checking those. I bet one of the wires is not soldered and the switch is OPEN. That has it be it!!!

yes that's correct

#81 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

Thanks Mike going to check those as well but the switches were moved all around when taking the box on and off a couple times. Mike you are awesome!! I cannot thank you enough.

Your very welcome buddy we will keep trying

#82 4 years ago

The only thing with that is the coil will not fire during the test. I would not think those switches would keep the coil test from working?? Agree??

#83 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

The only thing with that is the coil will not fire during the test. I would not think those switches would keep the coil test from working?? Agree??

no they would not.

#84 4 years ago

do the switches register?

#85 4 years ago

ok coil,diodes,transistor,are good, how about silicon devices in its ground path?

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

ok coil,diodes,transistor,are good, how about silicon devices in its ground path?

Mike I am afraid you have to draw me a map on that one. I don't know what those are.

#87 4 years ago

Ok keep in mind the drop targets are CPU controlled

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#88 4 years ago

Connectors are a huge problem on System1 games, don't overlook them. The connectors along the bottom edge of the driver board *and* the connector that runs between the driver board and/or CPU board could cause a coil to not work.

#89 4 years ago

Step 3: Check the Driver board to Coil Wiring (Connectors).
This only applies to CPU controlled coils. With the game on and in game mode, use a DMM set to DC volts and check for power at both lugs of the coil in question. Power at only one lug means the coil is open (replace coil or re-attach broken winding). Power at neither lug suspect a bad solenoid fuse or the power "daisy chain" is broken up-stream.

#90 4 years ago

Sorry i don't mean to overload you with all this info but one does cross my mind and that is daisy chain of wires might be bent going from those coils upstream to the connector on the boards

#91 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Sorry i don't mean to overload you with all this info but one does cross my mind and that is daisy chain of wires might be bent going from those coils upstream to the connector on the boards

Thanks Mike! Looks like I have some troubleshooting to do. I would be nowhere without your help.

#92 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

With the game on and in game mode, use a DMM set to DC volts and check for power at both lugs of the coil in question. Power at only one lug means the coil is open (replace coil or re-attach broken winding). Power at neither lug suspect a bad solenoid fuse or the power "daisy chain" is broken up-stream.

I think this is probably your next step, checking for power at the drop target coils. You'll need to open the game up and prop the playfield back against the backbox first. Then get your meter and set it to check DC volts. You'll need a ground connection to place the black lead on. There should be a ground strap somewhere in the cabinet you can place the black probe on...may need to see pics of the inside of the cab in order to better clarify. Boot up the game, place the black probe on ground and place the red probe on one of the non-working coils solder lugs where the wires attach to the coils. What does your meter read? Try testing each of the lugs on both coils for voltage and let us know what you find. If you're unsure of your readings, try testing voltage at one of the working coils and see if you're getting a good DC voltage reading.

Be careful not to bump into any coils, lamps, etc while it's opened up, of course.

#93 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

I think this is probably your next step, checking for power at the drop target coils. You'll need to open the game up and prop the playfield back against the backbox first. Then get your meter and set it to check DC volts. You'll need a ground connection to place the black lead on. There should be a ground strap somewhere in the cabinet you can place the black probe on...may need to see pics of the inside of the cab in order to better clarify. Boot up the game, place the black probe on ground and place the red probe on one of the non-working coils solder lugs where the wires attach to the coils. What does your meter read? Try testing each of the lugs on both coils for voltage and let us know what you find. If you're unsure of your readings, try testing voltage at one of the working coils and see if you're getting a good DC voltage reading.
Be careful not to bump into any coils, lamps, etc while it's opened up, of course.

Thanks Frunch and certainly Mike who had helped me so much. I will go through all these things in hopes of figuring it out. Merry Christmas to everyone!!

#94 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

I think this is probably your next step, checking for power at the drop target coils. You'll need to open the game up and prop the playfield back against the backbox first. Then get your meter and set it to check DC volts. You'll need a ground connection to place the black lead on. There should be a ground strap somewhere in the cabinet you can place the black probe on...may need to see pics of the inside of the cab in order to better clarify. Boot up the game, place the black probe on ground and place the red probe on one of the non-working coils solder lugs where the wires attach to the coils. What does your meter read? Try testing each of the lugs on both coils for voltage and let us know what you find. If you're unsure of your readings, try testing voltage at one of the working coils and see if you're getting a good DC voltage reading.
Be careful not to bump into any coils, lamps, etc while it's opened up, of course.

Yes that would be the next step but like you mentioned you have to be very careful when doing testing so you don’t cause a short

#95 4 years ago
Quoted from Genieye:

Thanks Frunch and certainly Mike who had helped me so much. I will go through all these things in hopes of figuring it out. Merry Christmas to everyone!!

Merry Christmas to you buddy and no worries we will help you all the way so you can enjoy your game.

#96 4 years ago

any update ?

#97 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Step 3: Check the Driver board to Coil Wiring (Connectors).
This only applies to CPU controlled coils. With the game on and in game mode, use a DMM set to DC volts and check for power at both lugs of the coil in question. Power at only one lug means the coil is open (replace coil or re-attach broken winding). Power at neither lug suspect a bad solenoid fuse or the power "daisy chain" is broken up-stream.

Merry Christmas Mike and to all. I am still hoping for a Christmas miracle before the company comes. So if there is anyone who can help this morning that would be fantastic.

I powered up the game, pressed a game to start. I do not get any readings on any of the coils even the lower drop target ones that do work so I must not be reading this right.

So its power on, game selected, red VM lead to the 22g wires on the left lug?? I assume they are the power wires. Do I touch the negative VM lead to the other side of the coil or to some ground on the table? I have not been able to get a reading anywhere.

#98 4 years ago
Quoted from luch:

any update ?

The countdown is on and am reading and trying everything. Thanks for reaching out! I cannot tell you how much that means to me.

#99 4 years ago

Just some more info. The game plays perfectly except for those coils and drop targets.

#100 4 years ago

did you check the transitor that controls those coils

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