Did you lift up that playfield while the game was powered on?

When you power on the game what is it exactly doing?
I’m just trying to get a clear idea of what problems your having since I’m not there and the game is not in front of me.
I’m really trying to help..

Yes it could have that's why its always better to work on a machine while its powered off.You may have caused a short.
im doing more reading in your post

Did you check the tilt switch to see that they are not gapped together?and plum bob tilt in the lower part of the cabinet also did you check the main fuse to see if it has blown?
From looking at the pics everything looks to quite normal and nothing out of place,Ok the 2 coils for the drop targets are not firing.Most likely the fuse to those coils has blown,Check the transistors that run/control those coils.Test them with a meter with the power off,Do you know how to test transistors with a meter?

when testing fuses are you pulling them out and checking with meter?
Open then backbox and reseat all the connectors on the boards,its possible when you raised the playfield it may have pulled the wiring a bit to hard and connector came loose

To test transistor power off the game set meter to continuity,Place black probe onto ground(grey metal strap).With red probe touch the tab of transistor,If you hear a beep from meter that means transistor is bad/shorted

Common Electronic Issues.
Battery corrosion (from the on-the-MPU-board battery) is the major cause of repair on this series of games. This also compromises the card edge style connectors going to the MPU board, meaning these often need to be re-pinned. Ground issues are also another nagging problem with this system, causing game lock ups and burnt coils. Additionally, since the game uses custom “spider” chips on the MPU board, there are a large number of unavailable parts for this board. companies like NiWhumpf have developed a replacement MPU board.I know you have stated that you have this new board in your game

The switches under PF are suppossed to be open that's correct,no other switches besides the relay

it should be located in the backbox on the board,check the power supply board

Something to keep in mind Gottlieb didn’t mount switch diodes directly to the switches. Instead they mounted the 1n270 diodes under the playfield on a diode board. Though switch columns (returns) don’t used diodes (the rows do)..This is if no wires came loose off one of the switches and if a wire came loose then the other switches going upstream in that column will not work.(This is just a note for later on if you run into a switch problem.

Quick question are the ground mods done on your game?

Just adding notes to this thread ok

Problem: Game goes to "GAME OVER" during play for no apparent reason.
Answer: Check the two normally closed SLAM switches for adequate pressure. One of the slam switches is mounted inside the coin door, the other is at the ball roll assembly inside the cabinet. Improperly adjusted switches will respond to game vibration levels and show this problem. Also check the suppression diodes across the pop bumpers, flippers and slingshot kicker c

ok i just read something about the U2 GAL chip on the board you have installed. Now that’s a custom chip, made special for the Ni-Wumpf CPU board. This isn’t something you can buy, unless it’s directly from Ni-Wumpf.
somehow the new Ni-Wumpf CPU board could have a bad chip or that short could have affected that chip

I really dont think so unless the wires were soldered in the wrong order on the coil tabs

Tell you what try unsoldering the coin door tilt switch lets see what happens,you stated you soldered it shut.give a shot

Great info in the vid..It's about system 1 drop target coils,slam tilts,ect.

Step One: Power off, Check the Lower Board Fuses & Bridges.
With the game off remove each of the fuses one at a time and test with a Multimeter (DMM) set to continuity. If a fuse is blown, just don't replace it (just yet). Fuses often blow for a reason. Note what the fuse does (there should be labels for each of the fuses).
If for example the fuse for the CPU driven 6 volt lamp power is blown, test its accompanying bridge rectifier (because if the bridge is shorted, its accompanying fuse will blow). There's only two bridge rectifiers in a system1 game (25 volts coil power, 6 volts cpu driven lamp power.)
If the 69 volt fuse for the score displays is blown, this often means one of the power supply's four 1N4004 diodes used for rectifying this voltage is shorted. If a 6.3 volt general illumination lighting fuse is blown, that can often mean a shorted light socket on the playfield.
Now that the lower fuse panel is all checked out, REMOVE the 25 volt solenoid fuse before proceeding! Set it aside for later.

Step Two: Power off, Check Playfield Coil Resistance.
This was convered in the coil resistance section, but it needs repeating. If a driver board transistor shorted or there is a ground issue, a coil can lock-on and burn. If this is the case, either cut the non-banded diode lead going to the coil, or replace the coil. I do this before initial power-up. Because a burned (shorted) low-resistance coil can damage the driver board.

Step Three: Isolate the Power Supply.
This simply involves removing the top J2 and right J3 power supply connectors. (The top connector supplies 5/-12 volts to the CPU and driver board, the right side connector supplies display voltages to the score displays.) Only the bottom J1 power supply connector is attached (makes sure it's attached properely too, because this connector can be reversed!) Now turn the game on. The power supply's top connector J2 can be checked for +5 and -12 volts DC. The right side connector J3 can be checked for 60, 42, 8 and 4 volts DC. (The power supply board is screened with the voltage outputs for these connectors.) If any voltages are missing, you will need to repair the power supply before continuing. (More information on that can be found in the Power Supply section.)

Step Four: Power Up with the CPU board Only.
Now that the power supply checks out, the CPU board can be added to the mix. All CPU connectors can be removed except for the left most J1 (power) connector. Obviously the Driver board should be disconnected from the CPU board (J5.) Also remove the two right side CPU connectors J2 and J3 (which go to the score displays.) Disconnect J6 and J7 (switch matrix) connectors too.

Your very welcome and im glad progress is being made Ok,The driver board in your game is it original board? I reread your post above and i see you stated its a rottendog driver board,very good board

Next thing we will try is to test diodes,transistors and coil resistance

I would have never thought it would be on CPU..Wow

Yes that's correct,Only the Pop bumpers, slingshots, coin door lockout and flipper coils are NOT CPU controlled. All other coils are controlled by the CPU.Next thing is to test those 2 coils for the drop targets,the diode on those coils and the coil resistance we will test.Here's what i'll do in the next few posts is explain how to test coli resistance in one post and how to test diodes on coil in other post and how to test transistors in another post...Sorry if i'm confusing you but this way each post will be for 3 different things to test.

To test diode on a coil-power off game

1.set meter to diode setting
2.remove one leg of the diode on the coil
3.place black probe on banded side of diode
4.place red probe on non-banded side of diode
5.meter should read .4 through .6 anything lower or higher is bad/shorted diode.
next step on the same diode

1.place black probe on non-banded side of diode
2.place red probe on banded side of diode
3.meter should read ZERO...Any readings come up means bad/shorted diode.

To test coil resistance-Power off game

Set meter to ohms/lowest resistance setting.Then put the meters red and black probes on each coil's lugs, A resistance of 2 ohms or greater should be seen if not then there's something wrong....Let me know what readings you get on this ok,That way if it's not 2 ohms or higher we will do more testing.

To test transistor quick test 95% accurate-power off game

1.set meter on continuity setting
2.place black probe to ground(Gray strap in backbox)
3.touch the transistor tab with red probe
4.if the meter beeps when touching red probe to the tab of transistor it means that transistor has shorted/bad/faulty

Good morning guys Thank you I appreciate it!!

yes that is very low and yes i do see that to cut off that diode is a bit tight.That diode looks a bit rough and looks old,Did you measure the other coil?

Yes i would suspect the driver board is the problem because the coils to drop targets are CPU controlled.I would also get 2 new coils for the drop targets,Give me a few minutes to take a look into the rottendog driver board and see which component that controls the tilt and see if something we can do to get it fixed

Here's a schematic for genie i just put this up for later on to look at
genie2 (resized).png

The game over relay coil and the tilt relay coil are main suspects also and they both have 1n4004 diodes these diodes are suspect also because its letting you play a game but then it tilts or game over pops up,I have an idea if you would like to try.
disconnect both of those coils the game over relay coil and the tilt relay coil,This way the tilt coils and the drop target coils will be diconnected.Then power up game and see if the game plays without tilting or end the game during a play.If you plan on doing this make sure you take pics of those coils before taking them out so this way there's no confusion to where the wires go back on those coils.What do you think?It shouldnt hurt anything just a bit of a little more work.

I'm still looking into that driver board

Ok here's more info about the rottendog driver board,This board is very reliable and the transistors on that board can easily be tested without taking the board out of the backbox.

The Rottendog replacement Gottlieb System 1 driver board. The cool thing
about this board is the updated design. The Dawg people updated the
driver board so it uses one common MOSfet driver for all the coils and
lamps. The MOSfets are rated to handle way more current than the original
Gottlieb components, so it is unlikely you'll ever have to repair this board.
Price is very reasonable too.

s1drv1r (resized).jpg

Let's test the transistors on the rottendog driver board and see if any of those transistors have shorted..It only takes a few minutes to do

I do believe the drop target coils sent a spike and fried the chip on the CPU,Those drop target coils and the diodes on those coils are mostly fried/bad/faulty.
Then when you lifted up the playfield with power on caused a short to the rottendog driver board transistor or transistors.It very easy to cause a short on any pinball machine,just a slight metal touch to powered on coils can cause a short.

Yes you can test the transistors while the board is attached.

To test transistor quick test 95% accurate-power off game
1.set meter on continuity setting
2.place black probe to ground(Gray strap in backbox)
3.touch the transistor tab with red probe
4.if the meter beeps when touching red probe to the tab of transistor it means that transistor has shorted/bad/faulty

Test all the transistors on that board,Remember you dont have to remove the board or the transistors off the board to test them

The rottendog board is a good board and very reliable but the new Gottlieb system 1 driver board it is way more upgraded.

They may have been removed during ground modifications...Didnt you solder the tilt switch together?

Yes that is possible,since the game is in your house i really dont see any reason to keep the tilt switch connected.Looking at that pic i see a very long screw going through that switch.Is that screw touching metal near that coil?Plus there's a red/white wire that is wired to a orange/white wire

Thank you for spotting that yes it is very close to that frame

Ok buddy post back

Remember when reconnecting the wires to the coil that the power wire (usually two wires or thicker wires) goes to the coil's lug with the BANDED side of the diode attached. The thinner wire is the coil's return path to ground via the driver transistor and attaches to the coil lug with the non-banded side of the diode attached.

Hi buddy,Yes everything looks good from the pics

Quick question buddy I was just looking over your pics and the second pic of that coil I zoomed in on that diode and it looks toasted or dirt build up.It may still be good but you did mention your receiving 2 new coils right?

Ok sounds good sorry we didn't make it in time before Christmas

Wow! That would be Awesome i'm glad and hoping you will receive them today

Hmmmm,This is really strange i don't remember if genie uses/has a under-the-playfield transistor board.Look in the manual at the board section and see if there is a transistor board that goes under the playfied

Genie does not use a under the playfield transistor board,Let's try this to just verify pull that fuse out and test with meter

There are other system1 fuses beside the bottom board fuses, all mounted under the playfield. There is usually a fuse for the pop bumpers and other major coil items like drop target reset banks.

Let's test Bridge Rectifiers.

Step 1.
Set the DMM to diode test, and the first step is to put the red DMM lead on the ground lug of the bridge. (On system1 games the ground lug is easy to find, as it's the one with the green wire attached.) Then put the black DMM lead on each of the bridge lugs next to the ground lug (the AC bridge lugs.) A value of .4 to .6 volts should be seen on the DMM. Anything outside that range indicates a bad bridge rectifier.step 2 is next post
s80br1 (resized).jpg

For step two of the test, put the black DMM lead on the positive output of the bridge. This is again easy to find as it's the bridge lead diagonal to the ground lug. (Also on newer bridges the positive output lug is set 90 degrees off from the other three lugs.) Then put the red DMM lead on each of the bridge lugs adjacent to the positive output lug (again the AC bridge lugs.) A value of .4 to .6 volts should be seen on the DMM. Anything outside that range indicates a bad bridge rectifier.

s80br2 (resized).jpg

yes that's correct

Your very welcome buddy we will keep trying

no they would not.

do the switches register?

ok coil,diodes,transistor,are good, how about silicon devices in its ground path?

Ok keep in mind the drop targets are CPU controlled

5075D8B2-43B1-4792-81E5-1A5C5AA65554 (resized).png

Connectors are a huge problem on System1 games, don't overlook them. The connectors along the bottom edge of the driver board *and* the connector that runs between the driver board and/or CPU board could cause a coil to not work.

Step 3: Check the Driver board to Coil Wiring (Connectors).
This only applies to CPU controlled coils. With the game on and in game mode, use a DMM set to DC volts and check for power at both lugs of the coil in question. Power at only one lug means the coil is open (replace coil or re-attach broken winding). Power at neither lug suspect a bad solenoid fuse or the power "daisy chain" is broken up-stream.

Sorry i don't mean to overload you with all this info but one does cross my mind and that is daisy chain of wires might be bent going from those coils upstream to the connector on the boards

Yes that would be the next step but like you mentioned you have to be very careful when doing testing so you don’t cause a short

Merry Christmas to you buddy and no worries we will help you all the way so you can enjoy your game.

Hi Fellas,Merry Christmas to you all

Ok let me read the previous posts real quick to catch up on whats going on

Ok which coils besides the drop target coils are not firing?Or is it just the drop target coils not working?

He just installed a new board

Tilt Again Oh No!!

Ok how about trying this disconnect all the slam and tilt switches and lets see what happens without them.

Yes they do

That's correct it would be wide open,That's why i was suggesting to disconnect them all and then see if the game will play a game then we will hook each one back up one at time to see which one is the problem.

Your welcome buudy,Yes it looks correct but before you disconnect those slam and tilt switches take pics so it will be much easier to hook them back correctly

Awesome!!!!!!! Great to hear fellas!!! Merry Christmas to all you guys!!!!

Yes that’s what I would do and enjoy the game!! Oh yes it was an adventure!!!

When you have time after playing the game and enjoying the heck out of it Haha!!!

Just disconnect all those switches then connect one back and start up a game and play a few games.if no tilt happens power off then connect the other switch then play a few games and see if a tilt happens.

But like what Frunch had mentioned since the game is in a home slam and tilt switches are not needed.All the pins I used to have I always had those switches disabled because I don’t shake or tilt the game because it can cause splintering in the wood where the legs are.Remember these games are old 20,30,years old.

Are those tilt or slam switches hooked back up or are they disconnected?.

Tell you what let’s try this real quick before anything.There are 4 diodes on a small board in the bottom of the cabinet,in the pic you put up they are on the left side.Test them with meter using the same method on how I posted to test a diode and you do NOT need to remove them from that board just test like they are,From that pic if I’m seeing it correctly looks like they are the same colored wiring.Im following that wiring from that 25V fuse holder to that small diode board that has those 4 diodes and those diodes don’t look like they are in good shape and could be faulty/flaky.SKIP THIS FOR NOW AND READ THE POSTS BELOW I FOUND SOMETHING VERY INTERESTING ABOUT THE TILT SWITCH AND THE SLAM TILT.... I THINK I LOST MANY BRAIN CELLS THINKING ABOUT THIS HAHAHA!!

84649276-AB6B-4E6D-A788-2925232A86F0 (resized).jpeg

There is one slam switch inside front door around the lock, and one at the ball roll assembly at the left inside cabinet. Both these must be Normally Closed or the game will turn on the score display instantly with all zeros (no normal 5 second boot-up delay). Also you may see the score displays showing a wave like this "O0O0O0" then "0O0O0O" right to left. Again this shows a slam switch is open.

The coin door showing the normally closed Slam switch.

s1slam (resized).jpg

The ball roll and pendulum tilt switches on a system1 game. The
ball roll tilt switch must be CLOSED for the game to even "boot".

Note the Tilt switch and the Slam switch are different! The Tilt switches (like the pendulum tilt, right below the ball roll assembly inside the cabinet) are Normally Open. There is also another weighted tilt switch mounted under the playfield. These tilt switches should be OPEN, where the two Slam switches are CLOSED. This is confusing because, for example, inside the cabinet at the left is the tilt pendulum which is open, and a slam switch on the ball roll right above it is closed.

As an ending note, if the coin door coin switches' lockout wires are shorted to ground, this can cause a problem where the game looks to be "slammed tilted",The lockout wire can easily touch the blades of the coin door switch, essentially shorting the coin door switches to ground. This really causes some weird behavior, making the game look like it's slam tilted.

s1tilt (resized).jpg

Me Too!!! HAHAHA!!!!

Hi buddy,Yes Christmas was very nice and it’s always good to spend time with family and friends

Ok connectors here’s a link that will show explain to you step by step on how to remove/replace System 1 edge connectors and so on.Also what parts,tools are needed its an excellent write up by Clay Herall(Great Guy)

http://www.pinrepair.com/connect

Ha! Ok

Yes it is possible you may have to just apply more pressure to those pins to get them out but keep in mind that those pins will have to be put back into the connector in the same exact order!

Join the Genie owners club

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/genie-owners-club

Something like this tool would be great to have but for the life of me I can’t remember the name for it.

49993225-9A24-4275-818F-52A9D6A9D197 (resized).jpeg

A screwdriver is a bit thick and a bit wider when you are trying to extract the wire out of that connector.When you insert the wire into the connector,That tiny piece of metal on the tip of that wire has a little pop up tab.So once it is inserted into connector that little pop up tab holds that wire in tightly so it doesn’t come loose.

Hi buddy I’m glad I have you as a friend I used to have a good collection of pins 12-15 games but life took a twist such as divorce and health issues.I live in a small apartment and no room for a pin but hopefully One day the Good Lord willing I will have a big house and have another great pin collection.

Thank you buddy there are a lot of great people in this hobby who go above and beyond.I also have been invited by many pinsiders to come over and play some pins in their collection(That really means a lot to me and I am very thankful to them:)I love the pin hobby it’s part of my life and brings me true happiness and joyful memories when I was a kid I also love helping others get their games fixed

Yes those are good

Yes that's correct

Because the slam switches go thru connectors and a lot or wiring to get to the switches, it is best to defeat the slam switches entirely. This can be done on the MPU board: short to ground the junction of R12 and C2 (or just run a jumper around capacitor C2, shorting its two legs).
As an ending note, if the coin door coin switches' lockout wires are shorted to ground, this can cause a problem where the game looks to be "slammed tilted", even if the C2 modification is done. The lockout wire can easily touch the blades of the coin door switch, essentially shorting the coin door switches to ground. This really causes some weird behavior, making the game look like it's slam tilted.

I know you have a Ni-wiumph board in there is there anyway you can call them ask them if there is a way to defeat the slam switches entirely on there board

Oh No!!

it should be right at the coin door unless the previous owner removed it. When bought genie was it working?

Tilts are caused when the machine is lifted or pushed

Slam tilt is when someone slams on the coin door or front of the game.

Now,These 2 Switches are CPU controlled which are driving us nuts,Since it’s a new CPU board there’s no way of testing it.
Did they send you any schematics or a component layout used on this board?

Yes the CPU could be the main culprit since those switches are CPU controlled.I would disconnect all those switches for now.If all those switches are disconnected and a tilt still occurs then 100% it’s the CPU no doubt about it.

When you have time can you post up a pic of that whole coin door and the coin door slam switch wires?

Yeah already been mentioned
First page

FC8AC9DC-AA1C-4296-B323-B6A2F8CB7856 (resized).png

Hi Buddy we haven't heard from you in 2 days,Are you Ok?

THIS HAS BEEN ONE HECK OF A STORY/PINBALL NIGHTMARE...
We went through all the steps one by one,The coils and the diodes on those coils were all checked out and passed.The blame would have to be the CPU because it has been confirmed that on your game Genie the drop target coils are controlled by the CPU.I've tried doing some researching on these Ni-Wumpf boards and haven't really found much about them but i have come across some posts here on Pinside from members some are happy with them and some are not.But before you buy or repair the board let me get in touch with Pinsider Chris Hibler he repairs and fixes boards and he is great with them.I'll send him a PM and see if he will chime in to this thread and hopefully shed more light on this problem.

-Mike

Ok i just sent Chris a message let's wait a bit and see what he says,I told him about your thread and hopefully he will chime in soon.

Fuses are the weakest link in the chain,Sometimes the spike is too powerful blowing the fuse and taking out some components on the boards.It happens many times on all kinds of pins Bally,Gottilieb,Stern,Williams,and Data East.But let's look at it this way it is a learning process as you go so as your pin collection will grow you'll be prepared and have the basic idea on how pins work and where to start..

Awesome!! Enjoy your game buddy! Play as much as your heart desires you've earned it..