(Topic ID: 257857)

Genie System 1 Will Not Boot.


By Genieye

70 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 188 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 50 days ago by pinmike
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 33 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_7288 (1) (resized).JPG
IMG_7289 (1) (resized).jpg
FC8AC9DC-AA1C-4296-B323-B6A2F8CB7856 (resized).png
01CE645F-F1C7-454A-8A94-0F00F6572043 (resized).jpeg
IMG_7180 (resized).JPG
FDDAAB66-639F-4C33-8D95-C2930E16A97C (resized).jpeg
49993225-9A24-4275-818F-52A9D6A9D197 (resized).jpeg
s1tilt (resized).jpg
s1slam (resized).jpg
84649276-AB6B-4E6D-A788-2925232A86F0 (resized).jpeg
IMG_7083 (1) (resized).JPG
IMG_7128 (resized).JPG
5075D8B2-43B1-4792-81E5-1A5C5AA65554 (resized).png
s80br2 (resized).jpg
s80br1 (resized).jpg
IMG_7088 (resized).JPG

There are 188 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 62 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

Unfortunately there is no pin 12 on that connector.

The wire will be yellow or black blue blue

FDDAAB66-639F-4C33-8D95-C2930E16A97C (resized).jpeg
#152 62 days ago
Quoted from plowpusher:

The wire will be yellow or black blue blue[quoted image]

Hmmmmmmm?? My A1-J7 looks totally different and no pin 12. Different game? I thought all the System 1 wiring was the same.

IMG_7180 (resized).JPG
#153 62 days ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Thank you buddy there are a lot of great people in this hobby who go above and beyond.I also have been invited by many pinsiders to come over and play some pins in their collection(That really means a lot to me and I am very thankful to them:)I love the pin hobby it’s part of my life and brings me true happiness and joyful memories when I was a kid I also love helping others get their games fixed

Man that's great! Just love hearing things like that. I wish I was around other pinball enthusiasts but hey I am here right??

Marco sort of let me down this time where they came through before Christmas. I was supposed to get the pins and extractor yesterday and it looks like it still has not been picked up even though I called yesterday and they insisted it would get out. Oh well. What I was able to do with the very smallest of screwdrivers is extract the bad pin. There was one in a slot with a cut wire ( I think the person put it in by mistake ) so I was able to get that pin out and solder it on. It is in there and snug and unfortunately the game tilts still. It is tilting like the game was quitting with the old board. Anywhere on the board it goes dark. The ball was draining down the middle last game not hitting anything and TILT!! Voltage spike maybe? I have read about that causing issues. What about the Tilt Relay?? And what's up with the A1-J7 connector wiring being different on mine? What the %$#@ is it???? Its enough to make a grown man cry, go gray, and day drink.

Maybe a pin issue somewhere even though they all look pretty good. I plan on replacing them all. In the video swampshroom posted he shows a crimping tool that you can get on Amazon for 22 bucks. There are a bunch of choices and want to get the right one. I think this one is correct as I the terminals are .156. Look like the right one?

amazon.com link »

#154 62 days ago

yea its there you just need to untwist the wire a little to see the colors .the green yellow is 8 with the blank hole is 9 then the pic has the black blue just twist that one to see the other blue or shut the game off pull the connecter and little numbers are stamped in between the slots

#155 62 days ago
Quoted from plowpusher:

The wire will be yellow or black blue blue[quoted image]

Early system 1 game use color wires on chart and later system 1 use color code on right of chart pic of color code chart

01CE645F-F1C7-454A-8A94-0F00F6572043 (resized).jpeg
#156 62 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

this one is correct as I the terminals are .156. Look like the right one

Yes those are good

#157 62 days ago
Quoted from plowpusher:

Early system 1 game use color wires on chart and later system 1 use color code on right of chart pic of color code chart[quoted image]

Yes that's correct

#158 62 days ago
Quoted from plowpusher:

yea its there you just need to untwist the wire a little to see the colors .the green yellow is 8 with the blank hole is 9 then the pic has the black blue just twist that one to see the other blue or shut the game off pull the connecter and little numbers are stamped in between the slots

I pulled the the wire in pin 12 from L-R and it tilted first ball. It will play 3 or 4 games then tilt for no reason. So far neither wire on J6 or J7 seem to be causing it. Could a voltage spike cause it? These flippers are popping strong and I seem to notice that the lower ones are depressed many times when this happens but again I am grasping at straws. Of course I am depressing the flippers often as we all do when playing but do notice that they are depressed when it Tilts. The diagnostics calls it a Slam.

#159 62 days ago

Because the slam switches go thru connectors and a lot or wiring to get to the switches, it is best to defeat the slam switches entirely. This can be done on the MPU board: short to ground the junction of R12 and C2 (or just run a jumper around capacitor C2, shorting its two legs).
As an ending note, if the coin door coin switches' lockout wires are shorted to ground, this can cause a problem where the game looks to be "slammed tilted", even if the C2 modification is done. The lockout wire can easily touch the blades of the coin door switch, essentially shorting the coin door switches to ground. This really causes some weird behavior, making the game look like it's slam tilted.

I know you have a Ni-wiumph board in there is there anyway you can call them ask them if there is a way to defeat the slam switches entirely on there board

#160 62 days ago

What color was the wire you pulled

#161 62 days ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Because the slam switches go thru connectors and a lot or wiring to get to the switches, it is best to defeat the slam switches entirely. This can be done on the MPU board: short to ground the junction of R12 and C2 (or just run a jumper around capacitor C2, shorting its two legs).
As an ending note, if the coin door coin switches' lockout wires are shorted to ground, this can cause a problem where the game looks to be "slammed tilted", even if the C2 modification is done. The lockout wire can easily touch the blades of the coin door switch, essentially shorting the coin door switches to ground. This really causes some weird behavior, making the game look like it's slam tilted.
I know you have a Ni-wiumph board in there is there anyway you can call them ask them if there is a way to defeat the slam switches entirely on there board

I have been working with Ni-Wumpf and he might even think he sent me a bad Demo board of all things. I keep hearing about these coin switch wires. Where are they? I have been all over the coin door looking at wiring. Is it perhaps out of sight?

#162 62 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

he might even think he sent me a bad Demo board of all things

Oh No!!

Quoted from Genieye:

I have been all over the coin door looking at wiring. Is it perhaps out of sight?

it should be right at the coin door unless the previous owner removed it. When bought genie was it working?

#163 62 days ago

The game is showing Slam Tilts but no Tilts when tested. They are both are Tilts so what is the difference? If a Slam switch is not causing it because the switches are bypassed then what could be causing the Slam to cause the Tilt? Why is it indicating Slams when the Slam switches are bypassed?

#164 62 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

The game is showing Slam Tilts but no Tilts when tested. They are both are Tilts so what is the difference? If a Slam switch is not causing it because the switches are bypassed then what could be causing the Slam to cause the Tilt? Why is it indicating Slams when the Slam switches are bypassed?

Tilts are caused when the machine is lifted or pushed

Slam tilt is when someone slams on the coin door or front of the game.

Now,These 2 Switches are CPU controlled which are driving us nuts,Since it’s a new CPU board there’s no way of testing it.
Did they send you any schematics or a component layout used on this board?

#165 61 days ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Tilts are caused when the machine is lifted or pushed
Slam tilt is when someone slams on the coin door or front of the game.
Now,These 2 Switches are CPU controlled which are driving us nuts,Since it’s a new CPU board there’s no way of testing it.
Did they send you any schematics or a component layout used on this board?

Ni-Wumpf said they fear that it is possible they sent a defective Demo board. Here is the strange thing Mike. The game was tilting every couple games. I opened up the coin door slam switch, wires disconnected and it has only tilted twice in 25 games!! This goes against logic right?? The ball cage switch is closed but the other wide open! It was tilting every few games with that switch closed. Since the CPU controls tilting I am thinking the Demo board might just be the culprit. Mike what do you make of this??

#166 61 days ago

Yes the CPU could be the main culprit since those switches are CPU controlled.I would disconnect all those switches for now.If all those switches are disconnected and a tilt still occurs then 100% it’s the CPU no doubt about it.

#167 61 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

I opened up the coin door slam switch,

When you have time can you post up a pic of that whole coin door and the coin door slam switch wires?

#168 61 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

I pulled the the wire in pin 12 from L-R and it tilted first ball. It will play 3 or 4 games then tilt for no reason. So far neither wire on J6 or J7 seem to be causing it. Could a voltage spike cause it? These flippers are popping strong and I seem to notice that the lower ones are depressed many times when this happens but again I am grasping at straws. Of course I am depressing the flippers often as we all do when playing but do notice that they are depressed when it Tilts. The diagnostics calls it a Slam.

The flippers , slings and pop bumpers are all non CPU controlled on these system one games

#169 61 days ago
Quoted from plowpusher:

The flippers , slings and pop bumpers are all non CPU controlled on these system one games

Yeah already been mentioned
First page

FC8AC9DC-AA1C-4296-B323-B6A2F8CB7856 (resized).png
#170 59 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

Ni-Wumpf said they fear that it is possible they sent a defective Demo board. Here is the strange thing Mike. The game was tilting every couple games. I opened up the coin door slam switch, wires disconnected and it has only tilted twice in 25 games!! This goes against logic right?? The ball cage switch is closed but the other wide open! It was tilting every few games with that switch closed. Since the CPU controls tilting I am thinking the Demo board might just be the culprit. Mike what do you make of this??

Hi Buddy we haven't heard from you in 2 days,Are you Ok?

#171 56 days ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Hi Buddy we haven't heard from you in 2 days,Are you Ok?

Yes!! I am back from the Psycho Ward due to Pinball Obsession/Disappointment Syndrome!! So much has happened since Christmas. Lets see....

Right before my company arrived for a couple days over New Years you were helping me figure out why the Genie was Slamming/Tilting etc. They came and we started playing for hours. I have never played the Genie consistently for that long. The drop targets were fixed, coils working and we just reset slams but played into the wee hours then this happened and you won't believe it. Man I have had bad luck.

After hours of play Bham the upper drop targets stopped working. We found the 2a fuse blew and found that the L coil got so hot it melted the solder and shorted out the coil to the casing. Twice the SAME L coil shorted to the casing!! I could not believe my eyes.

We started troubleshooting and found that the power to the coils now was continuous and the coils would lock up and quickly blow the fuse. I contacted Ni-Wumpf and they were convinced that the shorted coil damaged the NEW DRIVER I had just bought. Can you believe the luck.

My guests and I played the game for days with the drop target coils out so no upper targets but the game played perfectly and the Tilts became almost non existent!! Maybe 3 in 60+ games. During this time I took the coin door slam switch out so it was OPEN and it played without any real problems. This is the first time since I bought it that it did not Quit or Tilt constantly. Hmmmmm it played almost perfectly with the upper coils out completely?? Makes you wonder if something there or in the CPU/Driver controlling those coils was causing all my Quit?Tilt issues.

Again after the short there was continuous voltage to the coils and they would lock up. Besides a shorted driver (what he says happened) is there anything else that could all of a sudden cause the voltage to not let up on those coils? They are supposed to get power, energize, reset the targets, then the voltage drops off and the coil is at rest correct??

So I am in the process as I write this trying to figure out the best way to go. He is recommending I send in the 12 year old CPU to repair vs buying a new one. My question is: Is there an over all life expectancy of these boards? If so even though less expensive to repair vs buy new, I do not want to spend $$ to repair a old board that might fail again sometime soon. He is going to send me a Loaner Driver while he fixes that as I just bought it A WEEK AGO!! I also bought 2 new coils. Cha Ching Cha Ching. Visa, Its Everywhere You Want to Be!! I have spent a bundle on this game trying to get it right and will not give up until it is.

This madness is why I have not been here. All this has happened while I had company for a few days over New Years. So what do you think about all this? Can't wait to get your response!

The 2 big questions. Is there anything else besides the CPU/Driver that can cause constant voltage to those coils? And do I buy and new CPU vs a 12 year old repaired one?

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL! I hope life is good and as always, Thanks for your help!

#172 56 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

This madness is why I have not been here. All this has happened while I had company for a few days over New Years. So what do you think about all this? Can't wait to get your response!
The 2 big questions. Is there anything else besides the CPU/Driver that can cause constant voltage to those coils? And do I buy and new CPU vs a 12 year old repaired one?

THIS HAS BEEN ONE HECK OF A STORY/PINBALL NIGHTMARE...
We went through all the steps one by one,The coils and the diodes on those coils were all checked out and passed.The blame would have to be the CPU because it has been confirmed that on your game Genie the drop target coils are controlled by the CPU.I've tried doing some researching on these Ni-Wumpf boards and haven't really found much about them but i have come across some posts here on Pinside from members some are happy with them and some are not.But before you buy or repair the board let me get in touch with Pinsider Chris Hibler he repairs and fixes boards and he is great with them.I'll send him a PM and see if he will chime in to this thread and hopefully shed more light on this problem.

-Mike

#173 56 days ago

Ok i just sent Chris a message let's wait a bit and see what he says,I told him about your thread and hopefully he will chime in soon.

#174 56 days ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Ok i just sent Chris a message let's wait a bit and see what he says,I told him about your thread and hopefully he will chime in soon.

Thanks Mike but the ball had already started rolling and I decided to get the new CPU as it has improvements over the old and figure it is an investment in the machine. I just hope this fixes it once and for all. Yeah interesting that Ni-Wumpf thinks the coil shorted the Driver when those are CPU controlled coils. Who am I to question them.

I had suspected all along that the 12 year old CPU had issues so I do not mind investing in a new one. What a crazy way to get started with pinball. The silver lining is that I have learned so much about the Gottlieb System 1 from dealing with all this. You have been a tremendous resource and help to me.

#175 56 days ago

You might want to try a lower amperage fuse for those coils. While the 2 amp slow blow fuse saved the pinball from burning down, it didn't save the coils.
Try a 1 amp slow blow. If it blows too easily for no reason, try a 1.5 amp slow blow fuse.

#176 56 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

You might want to try a lower amperage fuse for those coils. While the 2 amp slow blow fuse saved the pinball from burning down, it didn't save the coils.
Try a 1 amp slow blow. If it blows too easily for no reason, try a 1.5 amp slow blow fuse.

Great suggestion! It also evidently did not save the Boards from shorting out. That is what is surprising to me that the design would not save something as critical as that. Thanks!

#177 56 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

Great suggestion! It also evidently did not save the Boards from shorting out. That is what is surprising to me that the design would not save something as critical as that. Thanks!

Fuses are the weakest link in the chain,Sometimes the spike is too powerful blowing the fuse and taking out some components on the boards.It happens many times on all kinds of pins Bally,Gottilieb,Stern,Williams,and Data East.But let's look at it this way it is a learning process as you go so as your pin collection will grow you'll be prepared and have the basic idea on how pins work and where to start..

#178 55 days ago

Whoa....177 posts.
I can't read them all.
I'll stay in touch after you install the new board(s).

One clarification.
Coils in Gottlieb System 1 games, while a game is in play, always have power. What they don't have, until commanded by the MPU, is a path to ground. This is true for most pinball systems. Just FYI.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#179 55 days ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Whoa....177 posts.
I can't read them all.
I'll stay in touch after you install the new board(s).
One clarification.
Coils in Gottlieb System 1 games, while a game is in play, always have power. What they don't have, until commanded by the MPU, is a path to ground. This is true for most pinball systems. Just FYI.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

I know huh?? 177 posts and this ain't over yet. First of all, thanks for the response, secondly you have to draw me a map on what you stated. On the lower drop coils I would read a voltage spike when the last target was dropped, the coil energized, targets up, then it would drop off. After the upper coil short the voltage was always there and the coils would lock up energized.

Ni-Wumpf totally believes the short caused the Driver to fail not the CPU/MPU. Can you explain further about the path to ground? This is the chain of events to the best of my knowledge of what happended:

Game played for hours fine. L upper drop target coil heats up to the point where solder melts onto the metal casing of course causing a big time short and blowing the 2a fuse. From there the coils would lock and fuse blows quickly once the short was eliminated. I mean red hot blow.

So AFTER the short was eliminated, was it the CPU, Driver, or coils causing the fuse to blow fast. Ni-Wumpf says the short killed the Driver as stated.

The game plays flawlessly with the CPU/Driver without the coils, I took them out. 2a fuse is in and lower drop targets play perfectly. So again, blown fuse comes from what? Coils, CPU, or Driver.

#180 55 days ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Fuses are the weakest link in the chain,Sometimes the spike is too powerful blowing the fuse and taking out some components on the boards.It happens many times on all kinds of pins Bally,Gottilieb,Stern,Williams,and Data East.But let's look at it this way it is a learning process as you go so as your pin collection will grow you'll be prepared and have the basic idea on how pins work and where to start..

Hi Mike, hope life is good. You would think there would be some sort of better protection against a spike that can damage these expensive boards. How on earth do these machines survive in an arcade where kids abuse them when I can't keep one machine in my home from having catastrophic failures? I like the 1a vs 2a fuse idea to have some protection but is that even enough if you have a dead short.

The silver lining to all this craziness is that I have learned so much. I cannot wait to see what the boards show, which one shorted etc. That will tell us a lot about things.

#181 54 days ago

Man my Genie definitely has gremlins and I cannot wait to put the new boards in. I played a couple games without the upper drop targets and now all of a sudden the 3rd player has a 1 in the display?? I tried playing 4 players to see what would happen when it got to player 3 and it played just fine but players 4's numbers were missing digits and was a mess.

What do you think would cause that? Just another example that the boards are bad or could it be a bad pin. Thanks as always and hope life is good on this Sunday.

#182 54 days ago

There's a lot of stuff going on here, but i just wanted to make a couple suggestions moving forward:

Never unplug the displays when the power is on! Now that you're having display issues, i wanted to add that warning--it will ruin all kinds of stuff if you plug or unplug any display with the power on.

One other thing: have you re-pinned the edge connectors yet?

#183 54 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

There's a lot of stuff going on here, but i just wanted to make a couple suggestions moving forward:
Never unplug the displays when the power is on! Now that you're having display issues, i wanted to add that warning--it will ruin all kinds of stuff if you plug or unplug any display with the power on.
One other thing: have you re-pinned the edge connectors yet?

Thanks for the response and suggestions. I always power off everything when I do any kind of work or connect/disconnect the boards. I have 2 new boards coming this week and hope it fixes all the gremlins. Crazy that something else seems to crop up almost daily.

I bought 50 pins and re-pinned one that I know was bad. I was asking about this tool to make sure I have the right crimp device for the .156 connectors. Here is the link. Is the the best one for the money?? Thanks

amazon.com link »

#184 51 days ago

Hello all, well I am happy to report that my Genie seems to finally be playing like it should. No more shorted drop target coils, no more quitting or tilting. It has been a Looonnngggg road for sure and an agonizing one and could not have done it without you all especially Mike. Man very grateful to you buddy!

I cannot begin to describe the help I received from Ace at Ni-Wumpf. He has been with me every step of the way, answering all my emails, sending me Demo Boards to try, mailing everything 2 day Priority, you name it. The level of customer service from them is extraordinary not to mention their boards are fantastic! It can be tough as we all know to get good information at times especially when your new to this. Thanks to ALL who helped me.

In the end I replaced the CPU and Driver with a Ni-Wumpf boards, 2 new coils and replaced 3 pins on A1-J6. Pins 1 Ground, 2 Slam, and 3 Return. The game is fantastic now. Here is a photo of my Genie you all helped me get right. Besides a faded back glass which is in pretty good shape otherwise it is playing great. I hope life is good for all.

IMG_7289 (1) (resized).jpg
#185 51 days ago

Fun game that I have fond memories of.
I really need to get mine un-buried and get some play time in!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#186 51 days ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Fun game that I have fond memories of.
I really need to get mine un-buried and get some play time in!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

I played the Genie back in the early 80's and loved it and always said I would buy one when the time is right. Love it even more now that its playing right. Chris, any idea why the lower Extra Ball might not register? It lights up and the switch definitely makes contact but it stays lit with no Extra Ball. It was fine awhile ago but when I put the new boards in it stopped working. Thanks.

IMG_7288 (1) (resized).JPG
#187 50 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

It was fine awhile ago but when I put the new boards in it stopped working.

There might be a "novelty" setting that causes the game to add points instead of EBs. It would still be odd that it doesn't extinguish the lamp once achieved.

Make sure the switch is registering in switch test.

That picture reminds me of how precise the shot must be to claim the EB or Special. Good times lighting one/both of them up and then trying to hit them with a flipper that doesn't put those targets in the sweetspot.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#188 50 days ago
Quoted from Genieye:

Hello all, well I am happy to report that my Genie seems to finally be playing like it should. No more shorted drop target coils, no more quitting or tilting. It has been a Looonnngggg road for sure and an agonizing one and could not have done it without you all especially Mike. Man very grateful to you buddy!
I cannot begin to describe the help I received from Ace at Ni-Wumpf. He has been with me every step of the way, answering all my emails, sending me Demo Boards to try, mailing everything 2 day Priority, you name it. The level of customer service from them is extraordinary not to mention their boards are fantastic! It can be tough as we all know to get good information at times especially when your new to this. Thanks to ALL who helped me.
In the end I replaced the CPU and Driver with a Ni-Wumpf boards, 2 new coils and replaced 3 pins on A1-J6. Pins 1 Ground, 2 Slam, and 3 Return. The game is fantastic now. Here is a photo of my Genie you all helped me get right. Besides a faded back glass which is in pretty good shape otherwise it is playing great. I hope life is good for all.[quoted image]

Awesome!! Enjoy your game buddy! Play as much as your heart desires you've earned it..

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 289.00
€ 8.40
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Senoia, GA
$ 69.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 334.95
From: $ 19.95
$ 40.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Arcade Arts
$ 50.00
Lighting - Led
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 125.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Sparky Pinball
$ 30.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
From: $ 34.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Medisinyl Mods
$ 36.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 125.00
Lighting - Backbox
Great American Pinball
$ 199.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Medisinyl Mods
$ 90.00
$ 199.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 22.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 175.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
There are 188 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside