1963 Williams Beat The Clock Repairs

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By Wickerman2

7 months ago


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#1 7 months ago

Any Beat The Clock owners out there?

This is my first old Williams game and my Gottlieb mojo doesn't seem to be working on it. Apology for the random barrage of info..it's like trying to fix my first game all over again.

First, I have no idea of the startup sequence on this era and no schematic...so that's an issue.

Score reels don't reset. Motor doesn't stay running though.

I've gotten games to start manually resetting the large control arm/bank. Some rollovers and the very top pops are not functioning, everything else works/scores including the clock when I actually get it going.

Also appears that sometimes not all the relays reset on the large control bank. The Game relay doesn't but I think that's normal, sometimes the "4th ball relay" doesn't reset--no idea what that does.

When I manually reset the large relay bank I get them to all reset (except game relay), I can get the balls to release to start game, otherwise they don't drop as that coil doesn't fire to release them.

Any info will help...probably the start sequence would be a good place to "start"

BTC_001_(resized).JPG
BTC_002_(resized).JPG
BTC_004_(resized).JPG
BTC_005_(resized).JPG

BTC_008_(resized).JPG

BTC_009_(resized).JPG
BTC_010_(resized).JPG
BTC_011_(resized).JPG

#2 7 months ago

Pics are in random order...the post "preview" doesn't show them...and you can't move them around after uploading.

#3 7 months ago

Now the 1's unit coil locks on and won't release...checked for a stuck playfield feature. Fixed, was a playfield feature.

#4 7 months ago

You can buy the schematic from Pinball Resource.

http://www.pbresource.com/mansch.html

#5 7 months ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

You can buy the schematic from Pinball Resource.

on my list...

#7 7 months ago

Making some progress, got a couple games to start...somehow the score reels don't reset though, yet the game plays

What is this "change relay" responsible for?

#8 7 months ago

Thanks for all the help. Gave up and burned machine in pagan ceremony.

#9 7 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Thanks for all the help. Gave up and burned machine in pagan ceremony.

Nooooo!!!

I'm not certain but I believe the change relay operates an alternating feature. Like an outlane or standup target that will light alternately. Often times these coils get toasty as they are in constant on/off operation.

I'm not the best with a schematic or I'd offer more assistance. I prefer the shotgun approach (inspect, clean adjust everything) and only use them as a last resort. I know Dirt clued you in on this game. Maybe he'd be of some assistance. He has helped me a few times if I have a schematic handy. He's mostly a Gottlieb guy but he's a pretty sharp trouble shooter across the board.

#10 7 months ago
Quoted from AlexF:

I prefer the shotgun approach (inspect, clean adjust everything)

that's where I'm at...I'm waiting on the schematic. I've got most of the game working. The score reels still don't reset--I'm pretty sure I have them adjusted correct(my first old williams game), 1 rollover doesn't register which is weird because it looks good and every few hits the large bell plunger locks on.

The change relay does alternate on and off--it's a buzzer so I might swap the coil with something else on the game.

It's getting there.

Dirt gave me a heads up but I had already scheduled a time to look at them so I beat him to it!

#11 7 months ago

Any Williams guys with sage advice on score reels or the large bell locking on? Score reel switches cleaned and I think they are adjusted properly but this is my first go at Williams reels. They make no attempt to reset at all but the game starts.

#12 7 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Gave up and burned machine in pagan ceremony.

You can send the ashes to me.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

Any Williams guys with sage advice on score reels or the large bell locking on?

Start checking resistance of bell and score reel and relay coils to make sure none are shorted as that will cause an arc across the relay to make it stick. Also make sure no playfield switches are stuck on.

#13 7 months ago

Also Gottlieb score reels of this era are almost identical to the ones Williams used and so is the principal of how they work. If you see any coils with dark or black wrappers there is a good possibility that the windings are shorted to less resistance inside.

#14 7 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Any Williams guys with sage advice on score reels or the large bell locking on? Score reel switches cleaned and I think they are adjusted properly but this is my first go at Williams reels. They make no attempt to reset at all but the game starts.

Is there a stuck scoring switch on the playfield? If you had a stuck switch on the playfield, then either the 1 point relay, 10 point relay, or 100 point relay would also be stuck "ON" which in turn would lock on the bell coil and score reel coils.

#15 7 months ago

yup, what Ken and o-din said.
if you got a coil lockin on, look for the eos switch on the score reel, thats what unlocks the score relays,and bells...usually

#16 7 months ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

Is there a stuck scoring switch on the playfield? If you had a stuck switch on the playfield, then either the 1 point relay, 10 point relay, or 100 point relay would also be stuck "ON" which in turn would lock on the bell coil and score reel coils.

Re-cleaned and adjusted the points relay for the large bell and it appears to have taken care of that issue. Score reels weren't doing anything unusual when bell was stuck on.

#17 7 months ago

Still can't figure why there's no attempt for the score reels to reset...they otherwise work as they should. Waiting on PBR order with the schematic.

#18 7 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Still can't figure why there's no attempt for the score reels to reset..

There is a normal reset relay in the backbox that works all the score reels that is triggered by a switch on the score motor. Once they are all reset, each reel has a switch that opens to stop the cycle. There is also a reset relay in the lower cabinet that stays engaged until the cycle is complete.

#19 7 months ago

There should be a relay that pulls in at the start of the game to reset the reels. It will be in the head. Test it manually to see what happens. Maybe that relay has a bad coil?

#20 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

normal reset relay in the backbox that works all the score reels that is triggered by a switch on the score motor.

If I manually trigger it, it will reset them...so score motor switch then? Schematic should clear that up I hope. Nothing appears to be triggering that relay at game start. Otherwise game starts fine, resets everything on the large reset bank beneath playfield..drops the balls (cough) etc

#21 7 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
I do not have the pin - I do not have the schema. I look in the schema of "Four Roses": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=938 -> Score-Drums are at F/G-5-6 - when You start a new game: Will be operated through "Switch on pulling Score-Reset-Relay". Score-Reset-Relay is at schema-G-3 - operated through "Switch on pulling Reset-Relay" - this coil is drawn at schema-G-3 - operated by pulling Coin-Relay. Want to investigate on these Relays (pulling ?) and investigate on switches mounted (clean ?) ?
Greetings Rolf

#22 7 months ago

I would clean/adjust first row of Motor switches. Then check for a broken EOS on pop bumpers.Then look for broken wires/bad solder joints at score reels. Then turn the lights out and manually activate each score reel from relay with a wood stick and watch for blue arcs.Then look for stuck switches on coin door.

#23 7 months ago

Any Beat the Clock owners have a pic of their Clock Stepper Unit?

#24 7 months ago

Does this stepper unit look complete? There's a hole for another shoe but not sure if there is supposed to be one there, also seems as if there should be some wiring as well...can't find a pic of this unit anywhere.

BTC_STep_(resized).jpg

#25 7 months ago

I have seen missing contacts on step units, thats prob normal. looks funky tho.
it looks like all the braided connect wires are missing from shoes...
prob on under side of that disk?
yep, prob a score motor switch that starts the reset.

#26 7 months ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Wickerman2
I do not have the pin - I do not have the schema. I look in the schema of "Four Roses": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=938 -> Score-Drums are at F/G-5-6 - when You start a new game: Will be operated through "Switch on pulling Score-Reset-Relay". Score-Reset-Relay is at schema-G-3 - operated through "Switch on pulling Reset-Relay" - this coil is drawn at schema-G-3 - operated by pulling Coin-Relay. Want to investigate on these Relays (pulling ?) and investigate on switches mounted (clean ?) ?
Greetings Rolf

Checked and recheck all the switches, score reels still make no attempt to reset...it's a puzzler.

#27 7 months ago

Have you cleaned and checked the switch stack on the impulse cam of the score motor?

4rosesimpulseA_(resized).png

#28 7 months ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

motor

I was actually so fed up I did what you are not supposed to do and cleaned every switch on the motor! I started with the 5 pulse stack and then just for fun did all the rest. I gapped any that had a questionable wipe, used the hard file on the big guys. I'm stumped.

#29 7 months ago

Once you have the schematic you can use a jumper cable and work backwards switch by switch to find out where the issue is. That is, first jumper straight to the coil lug and ensure the coil fires. Then move a switch back based on the schematic and repeat until you find the break.

#30 7 months ago

I am able to get the scores to reset by manually activating the first set of switches on Coin Relay. They are make/break and the scores will reset if I energize all 3 which is not the way the switch ever operates. Does this tell me anything?

Here is switch in non-energized position:

Coin_Relay_(resized).jpg

#31 7 months ago

Here is the fragment of the schematic from Four Roses showing how the score reset relay energizes:

score_reset_relay_(resized).png

In order to energize it is:

- pulsed by the score motor
- goes through a normally closed switch on the coin relay
- goes through a closed switch on the reset relay (reset relay must be energized)

So it should be pretty straightforward to get the score reset relay to energize (it should be energizing on/off as the score motor pulse occurs).

This is assuming that your set-up is the same as Four Roses. I didn't see any make/break switches on the coin relay in the Four Roses schematic 'though I might have missed seeing it.

Maybe attach a photo of the switch stack on your coin relay?

#32 7 months ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Maybe attach a photo of the switch stack on your coin relay?

COIN_001_(resized).JPG

COIN_002_(resized).JPG

#33 7 months ago

Coin relay pulses on reset but reels don't reset. If I manually engage the first switch(not the whole relay) including the switch which should break, the scores reset fine.

#34 7 months ago

clean and adjustthose switches real good, may be it...

#35 7 months ago

Once you get your schematic you could post relevant bits. I don't think the coin relay should be pulsing during reset though! I'll watch my Heat Wave reset tonight & see the behaviour.

#36 7 months ago

Got the schematic:

SCHEM_001_(resized).JPG

#37 7 months ago

SCHEM_002_(resized).JPG

#38 7 months ago

SCHEM_003_(resized).JPG

#39 7 months ago

I'm hopefully recruiting some top level help on it this weekend...my usual plug along and somehow solve it without knowing how approach is not working on this guy.

#40 7 months ago

Can you add one more pic? The score motor....

I'll analyze it tonight. It does seem that the make/break on the coin relay is critical in energizing the score reset relay.

#41 7 months ago

SCHEM_009_(resized).JPG

#43 7 months ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

It does seem that the make/break on the coin relay is critical in energizing the score reset relay.

This is the Make/Break on coin relay correct?

SCHEM_MB_(resized).jpg

#44 7 months ago

Yes indeed.

#45 7 months ago

If all three of those are engaged, the score reset relay pulses and resets scores. This stuff makes my head hurt.

#46 7 months ago

coin relay contacts, game relay contacts, and that "0" at o r. p. s. u. switch
thats about all there is.

#47 7 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

This is the Make/Break on coin relay correct?

thats the one lookin like it needs some tlc.

#48 7 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
Your post-45 "If all three of those (blades ?) are engaged ...", hmm, it is a Make-and-BRAKE-Switch. When the relay is activated -> middle blade starts moving -> middle-blade LOOSES CONTACT TO Outer-Blade-1 -> middle-blade moves on -> starts having contact with / to Outer-Blade-2. Greetings Rolf

#49 7 months ago
Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

coin relay contacts, game relay contacts, and that "0" at o r. p. s. u. switch
thats about all there is.

press start, reset relay pulls in--all clean with good contact--doesn't engage score reset. Game starts without score reset. If I manually tap it to engage reset relay a second time it pulses the score reset relay...?

#50 7 months ago
Quoted from Dr_of_Style:

thats the one lookin like it needs some tlc.

I re-cleaned and gapped the coin and reset relays again

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