Have you cleaned and checked the switch stack on the impulse cam of the score motor?
Have you cleaned and checked the switch stack on the impulse cam of the score motor?
Once you have the schematic you can use a jumper cable and work backwards switch by switch to find out where the issue is. That is, first jumper straight to the coil lug and ensure the coil fires. Then move a switch back based on the schematic and repeat until you find the break.
Here is the fragment of the schematic from Four Roses showing how the score reset relay energizes:
In order to energize it is:
- pulsed by the score motor
- goes through a normally closed switch on the coin relay
- goes through a closed switch on the reset relay (reset relay must be energized)
So it should be pretty straightforward to get the score reset relay to energize (it should be energizing on/off as the score motor pulse occurs).
This is assuming that your set-up is the same as Four Roses. I didn't see any make/break switches on the coin relay in the Four Roses schematic 'though I might have missed seeing it.
Maybe attach a photo of the switch stack on your coin relay?
Once you get your schematic you could post relevant bits. I don't think the coin relay should be pulsing during reset though! I'll watch my Heat Wave reset tonight & see the behaviour.
Can you add one more pic? The score motor....
I'll analyze it tonight. It does seem that the make/break on the coin relay is critical in energizing the score reset relay.
I believe the startup sequence should see the coin relay energize and the reset relay energize, and as the score motor turns this should cause the coin relay to drop out on the first rotation while pulsing the score reset relay.
To narrow down where the problem is you can use a long wire/jumper cable. Clip one end to the 30 (yellow? should say on your schematic) wire off the transformer and during the reset touch positions 1-6 in sequence. Where the score reset relay fails to fire is the culprit.
1 - wiring between reset relay switch and the score reset relay lug (wire color 19)
2 - reset relay switch contacts (wire colours 71 and 19)
3 - wiring between score motor switch and reset relay switch (wire colour 71)
4 - score motor switch (wire colours 72 and 71)
5 - wiring between coin relay make/break switch and score motor (wire colour 72)
6 - coin relay switch (wire colour 30 and 72)
Keep it up, you will get there!
To rewind slightly, my jumper suggestion assumes that the following are true:
- during the reset sequence when the score motor is running...
-the coin relay is NOT energized: please verify that it de-energizes once the score motor starts running
-the reset relay is energized
When you are saying "OK/Maybe" were you actually using a jumper to fire the score reset relay?
If you walk through the test points 1-6 as I labelled them, as soon as the score reset relay does not fire that is your issue. Stop there.
You will need to hold the jumper long enough for the score motor to pulse the circuit.
If we first assume that the wiring is not the problem jumper it at 2, 4 and 6. As you mentioned, you are testing continuity of the switch at these points.
Hmmmm, the score motor should keep running. What makes it run in the first place? More schematic study needed.
I am having a hard time understanding what makes the score motor run during reset. On some schematics from the era I saw the reset relay directly in the path. On Heat Wave, the Target Reset Relay switch by proxy makes it run, it is directly energized by the reset relay. I can't tell from the schematic posted what runs it during reset but I think it must be the clock relay. Can anyone else explain the sequence?
Now I see how the score motor runs. It is directly tied into a reset relay switch as seen in your post #71 of the schematic. In the schematic it is on wire 30 and then routes back up to the score motor section.
So one possibility is that this switch is not gapped properly or making good contact which is why the score motor stops turning. Wire colours for it should be Yellow (30) / Orange-Green (74)
When you press start does the reset relay energize at all?
Another possibility is that the self-hold switch is not holding the reset relay energized. That would cause it to fire and immediately release.
Check reset relay switch with wire colours 24 and 51.
The reset relay should remain energized until the reset sequence is complete -- all score reels at zero.
If it is dropping out at the first rotation of the score motor that points to the self-hold switch not doing its job.
If the reset energizes and drops before all the reels are reset that means the self-hold switch is not working. Please check that. The self-hold switch should keep the relay energized until all the conditions for reset are met (all score reels at zero etc.).
Initially the make/break on the coin relay energizes the reset relay.
Once the coin relay drops out it is the lower part of the schematic that keeps it energized.
There are a series of switches in parallel followed by the self-hold switch on the reset relay. The logic is:
- score motor switch closed
- 1 point disc unit not 0
- 10 point disc unit not 0
- 100 point disc unit not 0
- clock relay energized
AND relay self-hold switch closed
I think it should be enough to manually engage the reset relay which should do the following:
-> cause the score motor to run
-> keep the relay energized until the switch at position 4 on the score motor opens causing it to drop out
The score motor switch is basically a check -- the motor keeps running and opens that switch on every revolution to "check" if all of the other reset conditions are done in which case the reset relay de-energizes and the reset sequence is complete.
So if you manually close the reset relay does it de-energize immediately, or is there a delay until the switch on the score motor opens
Alternatively you could run a jumper from the 24V to the side of the self-hold switch shown. If you close the relay it should then stay closed so long as the jumper was in place.
Rolf see post #71 at the bottom. There is a make-break switch on the reset relay that runs the score motor.
Have you done the test I suggested in post #95? Manually engage the reset relay and see if it "sticks" until the score motor releases it, or whether it de-energizes immediately. That will determine whether the self-hold switch on the reset relay is working, which is critical for the reset phase to complete.
If you look at the schematic the path to the score reset relay relies on the coin relay not being energized -- so it makes sense that manually engaging the reset relay will pulse the score reels.
Everything points to NONE of the 0 switches on the score reels being gapped correctly.
If the reset relay stays energized until the score motor switch on stack 4 opens that means none of the 0 switches on the score reels are keeping it energized. Double-check these switches, they should be closed unless the reel is at 0.
I believe that the score reset stops based on the disc unit position (rather than a leaf switch), so in effect there are two different zero position indicators in play -- one to stop a score reel from advancing when the score reset relay pulses, and another to detect when the reel is at zero to know when to finish the reset sequence. It is the latter we are concerned with.
Looks like one of the zero switches is still resting on the plastic lever in the 1-8 score position. That switch looks a bit mangled up too. I would straighten out the top leaf and adjust the bottom one so that it closes cleanly in the 1-8 position.
According to the schematic the switch that holds the reset relay open should be 30 (yellow) -> 24 (blue/green). Can't see the wire colours in these pictures though.
Just no jumper over the relay or you will make a short circuit! Since the reset relay holds until the score motor switch opens as you have reported, the main question mark is the connection from the disc units. I will examine my Heat Wave tonight and try to figure out exactly how/where these are wired up (schematic for Heat Wave is very similar).
OK let's try this! Pictures taken on my Heat Wave which is the same schematically as yours.
Rolf please look at post #71 the reset relay switch driving the score motor is way down the schematic but it is there. It is the make/break and cuts off power to the lower half of the schematic during reset.
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