1963 Williams Beat The Clock Repairs

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By Wickerman2

11 months ago


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  • Latest reply 10 months ago by Wickerman2

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There are 134 posts in topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 10 months ago

If you look at the schematic the path to the score reset relay relies on the coin relay not being energized -- so it makes sense that manually engaging the reset relay will pulse the score reels.

Everything points to NONE of the 0 switches on the score reels being gapped correctly.

If the reset relay stays energized until the score motor switch on stack 4 opens that means none of the 0 switches on the score reels are keeping it energized. Double-check these switches, they should be closed unless the reel is at 0.

#102 10 months ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

gapped

will check this when I get home. If they were gapped wrong I didnt think they would reset under any condition. I will take picks of the score reel switches. Thought I had them correct but these are my first williams reels. If it's the score reels, which was the first thing I checked I may have to resign from pinside for wasting time

#103 10 months ago

I believe that the score reset stops based on the disc unit position (rather than a leaf switch), so in effect there are two different zero position indicators in play -- one to stop a score reel from advancing when the score reset relay pulses, and another to detect when the reel is at zero to know when to finish the reset sequence. It is the latter we are concerned with.

#104 10 months ago

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#105 10 months ago

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#106 10 months ago

Ignore the grime on closeup , I cleaned the switches.

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#107 10 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
don't forget the connecing wire(s). The schema tells me: The Zero-Pos-Switches are connected - and also a "Switch on Clock-Relay" is connected - the Score-Reels are in the Backbox - the Score-Motor (Reset-Relay, Clock-Relay ?) sit(s) in the cabinet, therefore a wire runs to the Jones-Plug in the Backbox -> through the Plug -> down into the Cabinet to Score-Motor-Switch or Reset-Relay-Switch. The wiring in the pin well might be slightly different than drawn in the schema - try to follow wire-color-24. Greetings Rolf

#108 10 months ago

Looks like one of the zero switches is still resting on the plastic lever in the 1-8 score position. That switch looks a bit mangled up too. I would straighten out the top leaf and adjust the bottom one so that it closes cleanly in the 1-8 position.

According to the schematic the switch that holds the reset relay open should be 30 (yellow) -> 24 (blue/green). Can't see the wire colours in these pictures though.

zero_switch_(resized).png

#109 10 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
I like the manual of Cabaret, http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=415 -> bottom of manual-page-15 (ori-13). Greetings Rolf

#110 10 months ago

All open at Zero. And all closed at 9? Just the bottom open 1-8? Correct? If the problem is the score reel switches I'd be looking at 1 of the top 2 being open when they should be closed right?

#111 10 months ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

bottom of manual-page-15

There we go...a diagram!

#112 10 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

There we go...a diagram!

I think the switches are all correct position--I went through them all again. All open at Zero and act correct on the rest--reels score correct during gameplay.

#113 10 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
don't forget (see post-107) to CHECK THE WIRING. None of the three Score-Reels do keep the Reset-Relay pulled - I believe "most likely wire of color "24" has broken-off somewhere".

About "the Score-Reels work nice when playing": Look in the schema -> "0 to 9 Drum Unit etc." -> when playing a ball: The 1-Point-RELAY does activate the drum --- BUT, when resetting at start-up: The pulsing Score-Reset-Relay does the activation - UNTIL a Zero-Position-Switch+-+ on the drum opens.
EACH drum has TWO Zero-Position-Switches - the Switch+-+ and the other switch to "keep the Reset-Relay pulling". Greetings Rolf

#114 10 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
You want to check one of the Zero-Position-Switches on (lets say) 1-Point-Score-Drum (and also check the wiring to and from that Switch) --- there a TWO Zero-pos-Switches - 50 % chance You look at the Switch in question (and there are the other 50 percent).

Sometimes I like to "sneak-in a fault" so the pin tells me -> choose one switch and sneak a stripe of paper in-between the contact-points of the switchblades -> the switch can actuate BUT the contact-points do NOT close -> start a game -> You either have AAA: The score-Drum DOES reset --- or You have BBB: The Score-Drum does NOT reset.

If You have AAA: You have sneaked-in the stripe of paper into our "Switch in question".
If You have BBB: You have sneaked-in the stripe of paper into the Switch "the turning Score-Motor fires pulses to the coil on the drum-unit" -> The OTHER Zero-pos-Switch is our "Switch in question". Greetings Rolf

#115 10 months ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Zero-Position-Switches

Thanks. I haven't had a chance to investigate for a broken wire yet--though I did try that early on and didn't see anything. Tried checking continuity from reset relay to jones plug. The wire colors are a bit hard to tell on some but some checked out, others didn't but I'm not sure if that was dues to me looking at the wrong colors. I'll have another go at it this weekend. Thanks again for everybody's suggestions...hopefully soon I can put this thing to rest

#116 10 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
I made a JPG - I hope the color of wires are what I assume. The letters A,B,C ... are Solder-Lugs to clip-on a Jumper-Wire. Many ways / kinds of jumpering - each can tell us something.
My late 60ies Williams pins have the "Zero-position-Switch in question" sitting on top of the three "Switches mounted on the Score-Drums". So top-most blade is JPG-C - wire-color-Blue-Green should be soldered-on. Below is blade JPG-B with wire-color-Yellow soldered-on.

JPG-G has two wires-Black soldered-on. JPG-F JPG-E is a short wire (maybe of any color) connecting "Lug on Coil" "Switch mounted on that relay (usually bottom-most switch)". JPG-E and JPG-D are the blades on the switch, JPG-D should have wire-color-Blue-Green soldered-on.

Maybe we are lucky (?) - first test: Set a Jumper-Wire (infinite, permanent) connecting "JPG-C JPG-D" -> start a game -> are we lucky and the pin starts and does the reset ?

If "No" -> "JPG-B JPG-D" -> Now the pin should start BUT Reset will never stop.

(((A D, A E, B C, B D, B E etc. --- well, many ways of jumpering --- think of "What do I jumper - what result do I expect".)))
Greetings Rolf

aBeat-the-Clock-pinside-drums_(resized).jpg

#117 10 months ago

Just no jumper over the relay or you will make a short circuit! Since the reset relay holds until the score motor switch opens as you have reported, the main question mark is the connection from the disc units. I will examine my Heat Wave tonight and try to figure out exactly how/where these are wired up (schematic for Heat Wave is very similar).

#118 10 months ago

OK let's try this! Pictures taken on my Heat Wave which is the same schematically as yours.

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#119 10 months ago

Got it! 24 wire was broken near a jones plug and cleverly hidden in the middle of the bundle, %#!*ing thing. Your pics and continuity testing got me trying to trace the 24's all over the backbox and beyond. Finally found it. Thanks! Our long (inter) national nightmare is over...I hope.

Scores reset with the wire connected. I can recheck everything else this weekend and see if there's any other quirks to work out. What a headache!

Thanks again for all the help.

#120 10 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
GREAT - You found the fault.

I once read: "Carefully checked each switch in 'schema' and in 'reality in the pin' --- result: TWO switches in the schema - not in the pin --- AND: ONE switch in the pin - NOT in the schema".

Please investigate - and tell us: Is the drawing of the "Schema Beat the Clock" faulty / incomplete ? Look at my snippet of schema -> drawn red - I believe: This should be in the schema. Please look up in Your pin -> Reset-Relay -> is there a Normally-Open-Switch having wires soldered-on: "yellow" and "blue-green" ? If "Yes": Sneak-in a stripe of paper in-between the two switchblades / contact-points - Switch can move --- BUT STAYS FAULTY ALWAYS OPEN.
Have "142" points on the Score-Drums -> start a new game -> the pin does faulty NOT reset completely (steps to 697 ?).

IF YOU find this switch: I could add it to the schema. Greetings Rolf

aBeat-the-Clock-pinside-fake-Switch_(resized).jpg

#121 10 months ago

Rolf please look at post #71 the reset relay switch driving the score motor is way down the schematic but it is there. It is the make/break and cuts off power to the lower half of the schematic during reset.

#122 10 months ago

Hi dr_nybble
YES - NOW I see that "Make-and-Brake-Switch on Reset-Relay to let the Score-Motor run".

To everybody: DISREGARD my post-120 --- (((If you want to look-up post-96 and post-97: I was pointed to that M+B-Switch, well as an explanation: I know the 70ies Williams Pins - I am USED to "Reset-Relay cuts connection on power-side, Reset-Relay has another Switch to let the Score-Motor run" - see my snippet of ipdb-schema "Space Mission")))
Greetings Rolf

P.S., to Wickerman2: No need to investigate on the switch.

aBeat-the-Clock-pinside-Space-Mission_(resized).jpg

#123 10 months ago

Now my only issue is the the lights to the red and yellow pops and maybe the left and right rollovers. All of them come through the clock unit wire color white w/yellow. Continuity from clock to jones plug, continuity from jones plug to lighting wire going to pops and rollover lights on playfield. That means maybe a switch issue somewhere? These are some of those "when lit" lights, like 100 pts when lit etc. I haven't figured out what turns them on/off yet.

#124 10 months ago

The schematic shows a disc unit that routes power to different lights as it advances. Does it advance? Are the wiper fingers on the rivets?

#125 10 months ago

This is the section of schematic that I need to sort out. Figure out what turns red and yellow pops on/off and the Left/Right rollovers on/off. I've gotten all of them at some point to light--at which point I stop and try to block different switches that I think are the culprit but have had no luck. Unless this is a motor switch--that I have no clue which one.

POPROLL_(resized).jpg

#126 10 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
You are close - make Yourself such a test-light as shown in my JPG - clip-on at 10-Amp-Fuse (NOT the side where the two Fuse-Holder are connected***) - with the other clip on your 6VAC-testlight You can touch different places.
I assume a problem on the Clock-UNIT - wiper not truely touching rivets OR: my "drawn-green" wire has broken-off - but sometimes stay in place.

Connected***: Use the OTHER Lug on Fuse-Holder --- YOU MUST always have the fuse in Your wiring / jumpering. Greetings Rolf

aBeat-the-Clock-pinside-Feature-Lights_(resized).jpg

#127 10 months ago

Thanks Rolf-

Do you mean with game on or game powered off? I checked continuity with game OFF between the pictured playfield lights fuse and the clock unit and there was continuity at the marked positions. Also continuity on all the outer ring of rivets

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#128 10 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
You may talk to other pinsiders about using a meter to measure Ohms and/or to check for continuity - I do not mind.
My opinion is "In a EM-Pin there are many connections - You might measure 'all the way around through windings on transformer' " - You may get the information "HAS continuity" but the pin does not work ...

I do testing with Jumper-Wires - I do testing with "stripe of paper sneaked-in into a switch to keep switch guaranteed open" - I use 6 VAC testlights, 24VAC testlights - I have 6VAC / 24 VAC / 48 VAC / 110 VAC / 220 VAC (new) relays I use for tests - I do have a cheap meter to measure - but I rarely use my meter. Again: It is OK when other pinsiders use their meters - I use my equipment.

WARNING: The manufacturers wanted it "nicely put in order" - they mounted the 110 main power fuse NEXT to other fuses. ALWAYS unplug (!!!) the main power chord - THEN FUMBLE ON THE FUSES.

FIRST: You must find the fuses for the Lights - for 6VAC-Circuitry. UNPLUG the main power chord -> take-out ONE fuse. Plug-in the pin and try to start a game -> something is not working.

Unplug again -> put fuse back in --- take-out another fuse -> look what happens and so on.

Fumble with the uses until You can say: THESE two fuses are for 6VAC-lamps (and mark the places).

Look at the fuse-holder of these two fuses -> On one side of the fuse-holders these two fuse-holders are connected - the "NO, No, Never-clip-on side" --- and the OTHER side is the "Yes, clip-on" , the good side.

So clip-on the wire with the testlight at the good side of a 6VAC fuse and take the other end of Your testlight-wire into the open - NOT touching a thing.
Plug-in, toggle-on, start a game -> now hold the end of Your testlight at the insulation and touch my "marked-orange" points / orange letters -> the testlight should light-up. The twelve rivets on Clock-Unit etc. Greetings Rolf

#129 10 months ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

6 VAC testlights

something like this: "Auto Car Black Wire Voltage Electroprobe Circuit Tester Pen DC 6V-24V" ?

#130 10 months ago

Hi Wickerman2
how about taking a playfield-illumination bulb out -> and use this bulb for a testlight ?
We want to test "Feature-Lights" - and "Feature-Lights are regular 6VAC-bulbs". Greetings Rolf

#131 10 months ago

Got it. 100% working now. Few coils I might swap and could probably use a new flipper switch but we're playing it. Thanks!

» YouTube video

#132 10 months ago

We have a winner! Time for more...

bruce-510558_(resized).jpg

#133 10 months ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Got it. 100% working now. Few coils I might swap and could probably use a new flipper switch but we're playing it. Thanks!
» YouTube video

private video.

#134 10 months ago
Quoted from balzofsteel:

private video.

I think I changed it....

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