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You didn't do that by just moving it, that joint is broken. The joint didn't seperate the wood broke. To break the wood in a joint like that would take a lot of force. Call your distributer pronto. If I were you I'd buy a couple of those HD leg braces, put one on for the leg bolts and another higher just for support once it's fixed.
All this talk about seam splitting got me to do something about it BEFORE my GB Pro starts to split. The right side, under the shooter HD leg bolt brace is on, #6, 3/4 inch screws with washers, total time about 15 minutes. The left side will take a bit longer cuz there's more stuff to move. This SHOULD take care of the problem BEFORE it happens. Stern should step up their game and put these on ALL legs on ALL games period. 
Quoted from Gov:Very concerning. Going to check my GB prem when I get home and hope for the best. Then I am going to reinforce the corners with williams leg plates and "L" brackets
Like what I just did?
Quoted from Gov:To be fair the only machine over the last several years that has what I would call crappy art and print quality is Game of Thrones. Most of that was hopefully out of Sterns (and on the license holder) hands as it is pretty bad IMO. The rest of the games over the last few years have had nice crisp graphics on the cab and playfield.
Avatar aint to pretty also, one if not the worst.
Quoted from pinbum:Anybody doing the back legs?
I would if I could get help pulling the pf, both legs would take probably around 20 minutes.
Quoted from Rarehero:Much prettier than GOT. 24, WPT and GOT are probably tied in the "Stern's most Ugly contest". Not sure why art always seems to go south on Ritchie's games.
I thought the King always got the best? 
Quoted from chucksmith:Is anyone attempting to put the metal braces in all 4 corners?
I would think because of the wood that the bb sits on going from side to side is more then enough support to keep the rear corners from splitting, the front doesn't have that support.
Quoted from arcademojo:Forty thousand and it's the same 40 to 50 people posting in all the threads.
Yup....the nerds.....like me.
Quoted from Spelunk71:Marco also sells Stern/Data East leg bolt plates. Would these be better suited for GB than the B/W version?
The B/W version work perfect on my GB.
Quoted from iceman44:Having read through this thread, anyone who is in the market for any upcoming Stern title should give it some serious thought. A few observations:
"Stern has a problem with code completion. Are you comfortable with this knowing that it may indeed never be completed?"
Yes, stick with Lyman and Dwight and you won't be disappointed, primarily Lyman, in fact you get some of the greatest pins ever. OR just wait and buy when it actually gets completed.
"Stern has had some serious playfield issues. Can you live with that?"
Yes, the Pf's with issues are being replaced and dealt with and it doesn't seem to matter much to the masses. Ghostbusters is one of Stern's biggest sellers ever.
"Stern has increased their prices somewhat dramatically while reducing quality. Most would find this unacceptable."
And yet they keep selling pins people want in record numbers. Why is that?
"Stern now has cabinet-integrity issues. My question is, and I'm not trying to be a wiseass-WHY are people still patronizing Stern?"
Answer the question, why do you think people are still buying Stern pins and the line for Star Wars is around the block?
You have some nice Sterns in your collection so maybe you could answer your questions. Just sayin. 
Quoted from iceman44:You guys know my answer. I love pinball and they kick ass and are a ton of fun.
The LCD and new Spike system and sound is phenomenal. Much better than my Woz as much as I love it
They make kick ass themes with awesome artwork
And you can actually buy one without having to wait months and years. Did Woz and TH time frame of years, now doing Alien, No thanks. Despite code delays I'd rather have a pin to play
They have a load of new pins coming out this year and we will continue to hear the screams of "take my money"
Starting with Star Wars. Did I mention you can't even get on a SWLE wait list that isn't a mile long
And the $5200 pro price is right?
I'm wondering why it's so perplexing to some and why some are so concerned with how other people spend their money
But hey, it's pinball and a lot of shit is perplexing. Especially how we got to standard pricing for a game is now $9k plus
Yup.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:There's something to be said for quality over quantity. I think Stern making more games per year then ever is part of the reason why their quality and code support has been faltering.
Well my Met Pro, ST Pro, Mustang Pro, Avatar LE and GB Pro are all still perfect so I must be lucky then.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I must be lucky also because in the past year ive bought a TWD, GOT, GB, and AS ane I play the hell out of them and they are on carpet even to where the machine wont slide at all and ive had zero problems. I dont nudge stupidly hard but I definitely nudge, especially on TWD and GB.
Ya know I think it's like buying a car, they say never buy one that was built on a Monday.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Theres going to be defective games here and there, nothing you can do about it. What matters to me is that Stern fixes the problem in a timely manner. They have been fixing the problems seems like but they have been way too slow about it sometimes. I honestly don't think their games are low quality, I just think they've had some issues lately. My Aerosmiths playfield looks amazing. It has a very nice clear coat job on it seems like.
I can't complain about the quality that's for sure.
Quoted from thundergod76:Will this help even if the laminate is separating?
No, that would have to be re glued. But they will keep your cab from splitting.
Quoted from golfingdad1:Would i need to get longer leg bolts to work with the added leg bolt plates ?
If you had my mod on yes. In my picture see how the threads of the 2 3/4 inch bolts just barely come out the back. But I also kept the stock cab protectors on also. Measure the bolts that are on your game now.
Quoted from RoyF:Thanks, nice picture of installed B/W leg brackets.
One thing I do notice when doing a "test fit" on my pin is that when the Bally/Williams style bracket is held in position for mounting (so the flanges on both sides against the cabinet), the back side of the bracket does not touch the triangle piece of wood on which the factory bracket is originally mounted. Maybe 1/8" gap there? Would that be an issue using this style of bracket in a Stern game?
Also, when you installed your brackets, did you tighten the leg bolts and then install the screws that secure the bracket to the cabinet? Or did you just loosely install the leg bolts to snug up the bracket to the sides, then install the securing screws and after that tighten the leg bolts?
Do you have the original bracket off and the ground straps out of the way, you didn't say. If there is still a gap, there wasn't on mine, just glue a big diameter washer where the holes are. I removed the original bracket, moved the ground strap out of the way, put the new plate and leg on, tightened them down then screwed the plate down using #6 sheet metal screws 3/4 inch long with small washers on them and no pre drilled holes.
Quoted from vid1900:Yep, 3/4" might mound up on the other side.
With the washers and the thickness of the plate mine didn't at all especially on the corner piece of wood. Put the screw into your nut driver, put it in the plate hole then tap the end of the nut driver with a hammer a few times to start the screw. I like these types of screws cuz they don't strip like a Phillips when torquing hard.
Quoted from vid1900:I like to use a cordless drill driver on high speed
The screw starts in about .5 seconds.
No hammer needed.
Yeah you old guys need all the help you can get.
Quoted from wtatumjr:Uh oh - my GB split today on the right side.
Sorry to hear that.
Quoted from PaulCoff:This is true. I spotted Caveman today and that sucker is built like an Abrams Tank. No corners were compromised.
I'll bet the wood corner braces go almost all the way to the lock bar receiver. The new Sterns just don't go up high enough. The ones on my Space Station come within 4 inches of the receiver and those joints are tight as a drum....but I put the HD braces on it anyway.
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:No problem with my GB pro. Would suck to have this issue.
Put the HD braces on and you never will. Insurance. I figure I put other mods on my games to make them look good so why not something to make the game last longer.
Quoted from RoyF:Do you have a picture of those HD braces on? Looks a bit cluttered in the cabinet near the top where those would go, yeah?
One picture on page 14 and another on 15.
Quoted from Gryszzz:MOTHERFUCKING FUCK
Just went to take some pics of my Mustang to put up for sale and noticed left front is cracked.
FUCK.
I'm a little fucking pissed right now.
Aw man. 
I'm puttin the HD braces on ALL my games.
Quoted from HighVoltage:I flipped my T3 off a pos tripod handtruck, it cart-wheeled 270 and landed on it's belly. It was totally fine, lol...
Quoted from Gryszzz:I just don't think we've seen a recent Stern with split seam for sale yet. I'm not a shady shyster, so of course I'm going to disclose that. Hate to be the guinea pig, but honestly, don't think it's gonna affect the value that much. Before when I considered it almost perfect, I was gonna list it at 44. Now I'll have to list it at 41 and settle for 39-4000 (hopefully). So not that big of a deal (hopefully). Guess we shall see.
What might help keep the sale price up is to put the HD braces in. It'll show you took measures to keep it from getting worse.
Quoted from thundergod76:I'm gonna try these braces for the area near the top. But honestly I'm worried that Sterns shitty cabinets won't hold the screws tight for the long term.
If you have a wire feed welder weld the gap where the two tabs meet. That's the weak point.
Quoted from thundergod76:Spent some time today reinforcing my BM66 cabinet that had begun to split. Even spot welded the gap between the tabs on the top brackets. On a whim I sprayed the top brackets black. Even shot some glue into the top joints and a little on each screw. We'll see how well it holds.
No such thing as overkill when 10k is at stake. Nice job.
I'm really glad to see people putting the HD plates and other bracing in. If Stern won't do it we'll do it ourselves.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Problem is, we shouldn't have to.
Yup.
Quoted from inhomearcades:I posted this in another thread. AS pro
That is what has to be shown to Gary in person and ask him WHY is his company putting out shit like this. Bring this picture to the next show he's at and show it to him.
Quoted from ExtremePinball:I believe that the current collector standard of "slightly less than finger tight" may be causing this cabinet splitting situation.
I've never seen that stated anywhere before. 
Quoted from Rock914:Rock solid right out of the box!
Oh crap. Send it back.
Quoted from Who-Dey:We should start a thread to see how many people have new Sterns that don't have bad cabinets.
My early first run GB Pro would be on it, no pf issues either.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Kind of funny how you know so much about current stern games but you don't even own any. All you are is a F'ing Troll dude that don't know jack sh*t that is on here just to start a bunch of BS. If you had a game with a bad cabinet that would be one thing for you to be on here running your mouth but you don't so why should anyone take you serious or care about anything that you have to say?
Watch out, he does own one and has owned them in the past.
Quoted from Manimal:Actually, it isn't.....lol It is an ellipsoid. lol
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/earth-round.html
No it's not it's flat.....I saw the proof on fb. 
And if you believe that I have some prime mountain property for sale in Florida 
Quoted from PoMC:I'm buying that Mustang tonight and I'm just going to install the inside cabinet braces and then forget all about it and play pinball. I'll gladly take a discount for something that minor that isn't even a concern to me.
Good for you, just take some preemptive measures and play on. I just bought 24 HD plates and will be doing all my games but first I'll be putting a few tack welds on the inside of all the pressed in screw threads on all the plates. I've had a couple spin on me in the past.
Quoted from thundergod76:Do you plan on just doing the front corners or all 4 in each? I'm considering doing the back corners but not sure if there's room to work way back there.
I'll just be doing the front legs. I don't think the back legs will be a problem because the cab back there is stiffened by a large measure by the wood that runs from side to side that the bb sits on. I pulled the pf when I put all 4 on my HS which made it real easy.
Quoted from arcademojo:My MET Pro June 2014 HUO
You can see it just starting to to crack and the decal is ripped a little. I'm the third owner. The brush burn on the corner was from game sliding into my van set when brining it home. So don't know if that contributed to the crack or not.
Doesn't look bad at all but to play it safe put the HD leg braces on ASAP.
Quoted from Who-Dey:That cabinet does not look like it's splitting to me?
Same here.
Quoted from wtatumjr:I just installed the B/W corner supports on my AS and GB and wanted to add a few things. The upper angle brackets are a pain and not really worth it. I think the B/W brackets will do fine all by themselves. You can flip the plunger side bracket upside down to cover more upper space if you want - the cracks appear to start from the top down. You'll need to move a wire harness loop on the left side bracket but it's pretty easy. Screws are not included with the brackets so buy some 1/2" screws - 6 per corner. Install is pretty easy and you don't need to drill pilot holes.
If you haven't done any modifications check the tightness of your legs after a week or so. The Stern metal supports dig into the wood no matter how tight it is originally. Mine were not loose but not as tight as I usually have them which may contribute to cracking.
If you have a corner cracked already you'll have to pull the corners together before installing the B/W brackets. Use clamps or a turnbuckle will do it. PM me on how if you need and don't have access to clamps
Here's a pic of the Stern vs B/W support. Of course you have to remove the old Stern support first.
#10 screws fit perfect with no slop. Another thing to think about, the stock Stern leg plate has only 3 screw threads per hole and one of them is questionable while the B/W plate has 5 good and solid threads per hole. The only downside to the B/W plate is that the threaded hole "plugs" are pressed in so there's a chance of it spinning. I know because I've spun one. The trick is to put a couple of spot welds on each of the pressed in threaded bolt plugs.
Quoted from Who-Dey:It's people like these 25 or 30 on here that gives pinball a black eye, I really wish they'd find a new hobby if they hate this one so much.
Now wait a minute, are you including those in that 25-30 group who DO have real problems with their games and just speaking out and are frustrated? If you are that number should be way down.
Quoted from wtatumjr:The solution to the cracked cabinets problem cost me $20 per pin.
My 2 leg plates per game only cost me $10 shipped. What else are you doing to yours that brings it up to $20?
Quoted from iceman44:Can somebody please tell me WHO is offering the quality of something like an AS pro for $5200?
Crickets.
That's why Extreme Pinball just bought one to put on route despite saying he'd never buy another Stern pin again.
Why? Because its a "win win" and he ain't getting that ROI on anything else. Drop that mic. Period.
Yeah, what's the entry fee for the other manufacturers games? And that $5200 isn't what the street price is either.
Quoted from Who-Dey:I would like to see EVERYBODY on Pinside who has bought a new Stern in the last year or so to come on here and tell these haters that your cabinets ARE NOT FALLING APART and shut these people up once and for all. Nobody wants to speak up or get involved in fear of being hated on Pinside.....I say who cares what the haters think!
I've stated many times that my ST Pro, Mustang Pro, Avatar LE and GB Pro are still perfect with no issues that I'm starting to sound like a broken record.
Quoted from wtatumjr:6 pack of beer - makes the install better.
and you haven't screwed your fingers to the cab yet?
Quoted from wtatumjr:I just checked - $30.49 for 4 B/W corner braces from Pinball life. The screws (stainless) were 27 cents apiece - 12 are needed per game
Hmmmmmm I bought 24 of them ($95.76) and 10-4 packs of the clear plastic cab protectors ($139.90) and $10 for shipping and it came to $245.66 from Marco. This box of screws was $4.99 so .0415833 cents each.
Quoted from Who-Dey:He should have a sign out in front of his business that reads "come in and play my low quality sh*tty pinball machines and make me rich"
Did you not read my post on how perfect my games STILL are. 
Quoted from wtatumjr:In Corolla there's one hardware store. They have one screw with a socket drive head (which I prefer) and that's stainless.
Stainless screws were $0.27. 'Guess I got screwed but that's what I wanted. Home Depot with cheaper screws is in Nags Head and 30 minutes each way ( that's if no slow ass is going 35mph in a 45 zone on the only road in and out). Pinball Life did charge $30.49 delivered for 4 corners but I was pleased with their fast service. I really didn't shop around.
Wow your out in the boonies. I like the socket head too.
Quoted from golfingdad1:Thanks , it's more than just an L bracket , it's a corner brace for cabinets , that I have welded together at the corner .
These should work great .
Go for whatever diameter screw will fit in the holes, looks like a 10 or 12. That way the bracket will be pushing directly on the metal if the cab moves. With a smaller diameter screw your just depending on the clamping force of the screw to keep the cab from moving. With a larger diameter screw both forces are keeping your cab from moving.
Quoted from Yoko2una:Just so it's not later assumed I'm talking out of my ass, I snapped only a quick photo of the Kiss. If I was able to get the phone a bit more to the left, I would've been able to show the sliver of bare wood I could see. But at least you can see the resulting misalignment of the star.
What does the joint look like under the lock bar?
Quoted from LesManley:Here's one you can add to the list. Same op has a Ghostbusters Pro that is just fine.
Looks like the leg is the only thing holding it together. How's the other side?
Quoted from LesManley:Other side is fine. Something definitely changed or is being missed in the cabinet making process. I've seen multiple copies of every nib stern game for the last 6 years come and go and I've never seen a cabinet like this. This game has only been on route for two months. Most new games last at least a year on route here and they never look anything like this.
With as many games you've see at soooo many different locations I trust your judgement. But you still haven't come over and seen my games and gameroom. 
Quoted from LesManley:That needs to change Paul. I've seen the pictures so many times, but I definitely want to experience it first hand. I will have to talk to the wife and set aside a day to make that happen when you are available.
When ya do bring some friends.
Quoted from wtatumjr:If your supports look like those on the right get replacements as soon as you can.
Stern having only one complaint is BS. I personally complained (in a nice way) about the joints on my AS then a week later when GB split.
and also take a look at how many bolt threads each of those has. The B/W plate has almost twice as many.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:They are really using those EM-style cabinet bolt plates?!
You just haven't been paying attention. Those little things have been on since forever.
Quoted from wtatumjr:Make's you wonder why Stern doesn't just install the braces from factory.
Yeah, they could probably get them for 50 cents a piece in quantity. Like $2 per game is gonna shit can their profit margin.
Quoted from Pinzap:Sounds like another great reason (among many) for me to become one of Les's friends!!
Hey I've invited you over before, but you live waaaaaay up in Sartell.
Quoted from cireone:What size screws are people using with the Williams brackets? Thanks.
You really should use #10 screws, they fit in the holes perfectly with no slop. That way you have the clamping force AND no slop in the holes for any side to side or up and down movement cus it's metal on metal. 3/4 inch long with a washer AND a lock washer works perfect.
Quoted from pinballinreno:I just wish there was a way to support the very top of the front corners. Maybe regular "L" corner brackets, they are thin enough.
That was talked about, with pictures in a post a few pages ago.
Quoted from thundergod76:pinballinreno...Page 18 of this thread should have what you're looking for.
Wow, that long ago.
Quoted from pinballinreno:Sheet metal screws are widely used on wood these days. The hex head ones have a nice taper to them similar to wood screws.
Just glue them in and you will b fine.
They are already all over the playfield.
Yup, these are the screws but #10, 10's fit in the plate holes perfect so it's metal on metal for no sideways or up and down slop. With 3/4 inch you'll need a washer though. I got these at Menards.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Bottom of cabinet on a new GB looks pretty much the same as a STTNG. Both corners have a small gap at the start of the joint.
STTNGGB
It would be interesting to know how far you could stick a stiff wire up that crack. Smart ass reply's welcome.
Quoted from loren3233:Are the Williams brackets being placed on just the front side of the cab or both front and back? I have not heard that the back of the cab splitting, which I wouldn't think there would be a problem in that area.
Just the front because the back joints are supported by the wood at the top that the bb sits on.
Quoted from Colsond3:Actually you'd better not knock on a modern Stern...it might make the cabinet separate.
Boooooo.
Quoted from chucksmith:So is pretty much everyone adding corner braces or no...
I've started putting them on ALL my games, just put them on NASCAR yesterday. The glue on my NASCAR is so heavy it has actually come out on the inside of the cab then painted over.
Quoted from Sanfordpk:I added the B/W braces to my Aerosmith LE. I have a shaker motor installed and over 500 plays, no sign of any splitting.
Smart man.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:If an owner does not know how tight leg bolts should be, use a torque wrench.
OK since you brought it up what is the proper torque setting? !0 lbs...20 lbs...100 lbs?
Quoted from chucksmith:Thanks for the tip monster_bash, I appreciate it. I will be using #10 screws as they fit the hole best and that will prevent the bracket or wood from shifting.
My concern is ... When you insert the screw, that the displaced wood has to go somewhere such as mounding at the cab outside or inside, or possible splitting/cracking which if there's any chance of me cracking my cab all in the name of stopping cracking... well that's not an acceptable risk.
But there's also the viewpoint such as monster_bash : If the Stern wood is really that soft, by not drilling a pilot hole, you are just compressing the wood around the screw filling air-gaps. The result is a more solid bite for the screw with now dense material packed around it.
But this raises a new question. If the stern wood is really that soft, will these brackets do anything to protect you? or will the screws simply rip out of the soft wood as the machine is nudged, jiggled, moved, whatever. This is a good argument for putting glue in the screw hole to harden up the wood around the threads which someone has already suggested.
Chuck your way over thinking this, your dealing with plywood here, the screws aren't gonna cause the wood to split and the wood isn't soft enough that the screws are gonna rip out. Just screw them in and be done with it, they will be fine. I've done 3 of my 13 so far and there's no problems at all. Just do it.
Quoted from chucksmith:Paul and monster-bash are 100% correct. Do not use pilot holes. I did not use pilot holes and everything went smoothly. I also used the glue on the screw idea. -- Used #10 nut driver head 1/2 " long. Yup the had 1/2" #10's stainless steel at Menard's.
Thanks for the help guys. I'm ready to play some pinball !
What did you do about that gap we talked about?
Now your thinkin Chuck, that strapping does come in handy. Like I said, the plywood will not split even with a # 12 screw, no one should worry about it. Your right the self tapping are not a good choice. Really no need to buy the stainless screws, waste of money, the plated screws won't rust in out lifetime. I used 3/4 inch #10 with a regular washer and a serated lock washer, more bite and no where near coming out the other side. ST Pro done today, Mustang Pro on Monday. Our Pinball BBQ is tomorrow.
18595220_10210149547560051_7217967631724573977_o (resized).jpg
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:If an owner starts feel the bolts starting to give (old or new games) with short pushes, the bolts are already starting to strip out, and it is time to replace the bolts and plate.
That's why I suggested using the Williams plates. The stock plates only have about 3 threads while the Williams plates almost 6.
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:Gist of thread:use Bally Williams stuff because it's better then Data East.......I mean Stern.
Lesson learned
Quoted from arcadenerd925:Questions RE: Williams leg plates/brackets
1. I see Chuck used a clever way to fill a gap in the back. have others (who used the plates) needed to do this as well?
2. Dumb question, but i assume you need to take off the original stern bracket before putting on the williams one, yes?
Any help appreciated!
FWIW, mine split (on left side) within a week of arriving. Never moved, barely played, not over-torqued.
Immediately went to JJ @ G-exchange to contact stern on my behalf (which is why I asked around for a reputable re-seller b4 buying). Stern agreed to send out a new mostly populated cab (I would need to move backbox, PF, coin door and the node board by the coin door).
They accidentally (read the whole sentence b4 the jokes start, heh) sent me a bare cab, meaning I would have had to move EVERYTHING over. I squaked about this, they apologized and connected me to a local pin repair company authorized by Stern to do warranty repair and that they would take care of everything and do the swap for me.
I am certainly no stern fanboy, but when it comes to the cab's at least, it seems like if you have an issue and can document it (make sure you take a pic of the pin crated when you receive/unbox it so if there does end up being an issue you can show there was no crate damage) they will take care of it.
First off thanks for sharing your happy ending story, great to hear a good Stern story for a change.
#1 I have not had the need to do that to 3 Stern game so far, 10 more cabs to do.
#2 Yes the old bracket AND pull 2 ground braid staples so the new plate slide under it si it attaches to the top of the new plate. Plan on about 45 minutes to put them on. Time well spent.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Reading this thread, WMS brackets seem sensible.
Looking at this picture earlier in thread , what about a panel pin in bottom corner and maybe top?
Gottlieb in the 1950's used panel pins/glue and braces and some have stayed together for 60 years plus.
Any reason why not to use a panel pin or two?
Won't even see the lower ones at all.
Not enough holding power using just nails. Just mount another leg bolt plate down there.
Quoted from chucksmith:Well Dang, I should have been more involved. I had no idea we had a Pinball BBQ here in the Minneapolis St.Paul area.
Next year I'll plan better. I need to get involved some in the flesh people! ... I'd love to meet up with fellow pinsiders in MN.
Well the BBQ is by invite and you have to bring a game so ask Steve about next year. If your local come on over some evening, I think you'll find my 2 gameroomes very different. Bring a friend that's thinking about getting into the hobby, he'll get hooked for sure.
Quoted from ledge:what do the leg bolt plates that Stern now use, look like ?
The same as what's on all your games.
Quoted from daddyxxx:My buddy jus got there new cab delivered from stern...open the box and its crack...kinda wild...that's some bad luck....
Have him put the Williams HD leg braces on ASAP.
Quoted from tezting:Is it not better to just ship it back ASAP?
I would not accept it unless I could get a discount or guarantee that I could get it swapped.
Yeah he should try that first.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Took advice from this thread and put these on my KISS.
Stern's cost cutting is getting beyond a joke.
Compare their brackets to the B/W ones. 8 screws versus 3.
Luckily for Stern their games are a blast to play and they need to be - to make up for dodgy node boards, cabinet issues and huge delays in code updates.
Well to be fair, Stern has never put the HD plates on their games so it's never been a cost cutting measure. But it is something they should switch to in my opinion. So far I've put them on my GB Pro, Avatar LE, Mustang Pro, Space Station and ST Pro. Got 8 more games to go. 
Also notice how many bolt threads are on the stock Stern plates compared to the Williams.
Quoted from jar155:For the Pinball Showdown in Denver I took down, moved, and set up a '70s Gottlieb, a few '80s Williams, a '90s Premier, a '90s Williams, a new Jersey Jack, and a 2016 Stern. It's not the first time I've handled games from different eras, but doing so in a back-to-back fashion really made the differences in the cabinets stick out. Stern games just feel less solid. It doesn't just come down to weight, either. It feels like there's simply less density to the wood, and it's much softer.
We took my GBLE out to Denver in a trailer along with a Metallica, T2, Genie, Rollergames, and Pinbot. I was honestly most worried about the GBLE than any other game back there. I almost expected to see cabinet splits when unloading. Thank goodness it had just the same hairline starts as it had when we loaded up.
Stern needs to go with a bigger bracket on the corners. You can get away with lighter wood if it's secure, but I don't feel like it's being joined and secured very well right now.
Did you notice and joint glue coming out inside the cab of any of the games? I have several of my older games with that. I don't think the new Stern cabs have enough glue in their joints. That could be part of their problem.
Quoted from chucksmith:Hey Paul,
After doing all those machines, - Did the BW bracket fit perfectly on all of them ?
Or did you have to get creative on any to get a perfect fit sides to center?
They all fit perfect. The one under the shooter went in with the long side up so it will help stabilize the top of the cab but I couldn't put the top middle screw in because the wood wedge piece doesn't extend up far enough but that's no big deal. On the start button side the Turnement button got in the way of putting it in the same way but again no big deal, I just flipped it upside down so the long end was facing down and was able to put all 8 screws in then.
Quoted from pindude80:I would like to hear what Paul says also. I did my AS and I had to use plumbers tape to fill the gap between the bracket and cabinet and it was a PITA. It wouldn't have been bad if they butted up to the sides but mine didn't. I still have to do my Metallica and Mustang; not looking forward to it either, but I have figured out a system to make it a little less painful.
I have yet to do my Met but they fit perfect on my Mustang Pro. I think it's very important to use #10 screws because it's then metal on metal as far as filling the plate holes. That way you not only have the clamping force but also no sideways slop force allowing the plate to move sideways. In other words your making those plates ROCK SOLID.
Quoted from pindude80:I did your method and used 3/4" # 10 screws with a lock washer. I bought # 10 x 1/2" screws. I held the brackets up to the top of the cabinet with my plumbers tape installed and didn't feel the 1/2" screws would get enough bite in the cabinet so I went with the # 10. Kind of weird that my brackets had a gap behind them and yours fit snugly. I only did my AS which was built a little over a month ago so I wonder if some of the cabinets specs changed or my brackets are made differently from yours. I bought the B/W style brackets from Pinball Life. We'll see how they fit on my older games- Mustang and Metallica
If you didn't have that gap you would have needed a washer THEN a lock washer to make sure you didn't pop out the other side when using the 3/4 inch #10's. Crazy how some games have a thicker wood wedge. Oh well that's pinball.
Can you imagine the deal Stern would get if they ordered 10,000 of those Williams hd leg brackets. We're stuck buying them for $4.99 each + shipping. 
I got a better price cuz I bought 24 but still not as cheap as what Stern could get them for.
Quoted from Chambahz:Seems to me as though it's not really the brackets that are the problem, it's the roughly 24-30 Pinside reported cabinets that are the issue. Fix those, and the existing brackets are likely good enough. At least, they've never been an issue on any of the Sterns that I've owned.
I did buy the B/W brackets for my new Aerosmith, just in case -but again, it's a band-aid solution. Cabinets that are properly built should mean not having to upgrade brackets in the first place.
Those little brackets are cheap ass shit and you know it and yes the B/W brackets WOULD have kept the seams from flexing and splitting. Not to mention the maybe 3 threads for each bolt on the cheap brackets stripping out, the Williams braces have 6 threads. I know that being a fact cuz 2 of the stock plates on a HS I had had to be replaced because they were stripped. I replace all 4 plates with the HD ones and that game was solid as a rock when I sold it. I'll bet many people have stripped the threads on those cheap ass braces. The HD braces are the solution for both those problems.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Parts when exhausted taken months, if not years to come back,
I don't know about that. When I bought my 24 Marco only sent me 23 because they ran out. A week later I had my 24th one.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:I can state from industry experience as one of the responsible contracting/engineering US Army officers for management and manufacturing working with Colt Manufacturing LLC to re outfit the Iraqi Army with repair parts (springs, bushings, bolts, cams, etc, handguards, baffles, barrels, assemblies, etc) along with entire weapons for the M16A4 line from 2007-2009, and complete replacement parts line for AK 47/74/100-109 series from Brownell, it does not take a weekend to negotiate the construction, costs, manufacturing, or shipping of parts, even in mass quantities above 10K.
Construction times are variable, dependent on complexity.
Lower quantities up to 5000 might be in stock in the case of some of the items mentioned.
Rush shipping is always available for additional costs.
Similarities in other manufacturing metal/plastic industries such as pinball are comparable, that is why they were used to support conflicts of the past as redirected by the US Federal government.
Even simple parts, and that is a much larger industry in comparison to this one.
Ammunition casing production is very similar to leg bolt plates (stamping and lathe), and much simpler than some of the above parts.
Tolerances may not be equal, but still require precise machining for pinball parts, and I am not focusing exclusively on leg bolt plates.
That is oversimplifying the manufacturing process, although I wish it could be different.
Why are you showing complex metal pieces? We're talking about heavy duty stamped steel leg brackets with holes drilled in them. Get back on the subject we're talking about.
Quoted from Chambahz:I think you missed my point entirely. I agree that the Stern brackets aren't as strong as the B/W ones, but I'm not sure that this is the issue that's the concern.
It's the 25+ cabinets that appear to have not been glued properly that's the issue. -and I would prefer to know that all their cabinets are manufactured properly moving forward, than to know that they've decided to simply use stronger cabinet brackets instead. Fix the problem, and you don't need to worry about the band-aid.
On my first ACDC, I partially stripped the threads on one bracket because I tightened the bolt on that as hard as I could. -then I learned that's not what you do when you put the legs on. Since then, I've never had any issues as a result of the current brackets that they're using. So yes, they appear to be cheaper in quality, but also appear to do the job just fine.
No I got your point. The stock leg bolt plate is ONLY meant to hold the legs on and are cheap as you can get, I can bend them into an L shape with my bare hands. Stern doesn't use cabinet brackets, they use leg bolt brackets which aren't the same thing. The Williams plates are made to hold the cabinet together AND to mount the legs too. Williams designed those plates to hold their Pinball 2000 games together because they were so heavy. My RFM has them on all 4 corners. I really don't consider the Williams plates a "band aid". I think of them as cheap insurance.
Quoted from arcadenerd925:they also put the B/W leg brackets on the front for me while they were at it.
Good call. You see any glue coming out of the seams inside the cab? Keep us informed.
Quoted from chucksmith:Found some interesting brackets on PBL. Of course BW Bracket, but the corner bracket might be good for the upper inside corner.
If you need some meaty leg brackets but cant use the BW bracket, there's an option. (search word "bracket")
The only way the middle one would be worth anything would be if both ends and the middle had gussets.
Quoted from ob1forever:Built on 06-03-2015...2 years
Oh shit.
Quoted from vid1900:Decals are crap, always.
My ST Pro and Mustang Pro still looks perfect.
Quoted from Pin_Guy:Despite the negative press that Stern has been getting about these cabinets, I honestly believe the cabinet itself is structurally sound; admittedly, this thread did cause me a little concerned over making a purchase from Stern but in the end I purchased an Aerosmith and I'm very glad I did as its a fantastic game.
I could be mistaken, but from what it appears to me is one of the main issue with this separation is that the cabinet maker is cutting the channel for the side rail trim all the way through, rather than ending the channel a couple inches before the end of the side panel, this is leaving nearly no bonding area at the top edge.Stern then compounded this weakness by tightly wrapping decals around the corners, leaving them no possibility for movement meaning they are going to tear. Fortunately Stern is appears to no longer wrapping decals in this manner but are cutting them short of the edge; theoretically, the decal will not tear even if there is some movement of the wood at the corner.
Knowing of this potential issue, the one thing I did was filled this gap with Elmer's wood glue and used a toothpick to help in getting it to flow into the corner (it did flow down through the seam. I then cut a small block of wood and glued it in the gap at the corners to give them more bonding area. So far (knock on wood) I don't see any issues.
How much glue went down, a tablespoon....?
I just picked up a Jackbot which is a European reimport and guess what, it has the HD leg braces on all 4 corners and they look stock. Anyone else's reimport have this?
Quoted from PW79:My distro called.
I was busy @ the time so it went to voicemail but he says after reviewing the video & pics Stern has agreed to replace my cabinet.
Tomorrow I will call him back to get an ETA & the details of how this works.
I'm reluctant to call this resolved, you know, since its not yet done, but I'm happy to report Stern's reply.
That's great. It makes you wonder what do they do with these cabs when they get them back.
Quoted from JeffTaylor:It seems that Stern has implemented a "fix" for the cabinet corner joints. See what I found on this new Star Wars? It's a metal corner bracket.
Oh that looks heavy duty. 
Looks like 2 whole screws holding it on. Better then nothing I suppose.
Quoted from andre060:You can't see under the bracket in that photo.
Well let's see a good picture then.
Quoted from PinMonk:They added B/W style leg bolt brackets again in a running change, too.
Well let's see a good picture then.
Quoted from PinMonk:Here's pics of the running change Stern has made to Star Wars cabinets, reverting to the B/W style leg bolt brackets. Knock yourself out:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-announces-star-wars-pinball/page/137#post-3924456
Thank you, that's great to see.
Quoted from pinballinreno:It looks fairly straight forward and not too difficult to add all the new braces if you wanted to, if Stern would send them along.
It might be a good idea.
That would be the FIRST thing I would do. I've put the HD leg braces on all 14 of my games just to play it safe.
Quoted from PinMonk:You're shooting blanks again...
I made a mistake so I erased it. How do ya think I got to 19k posts. Clever hugh.
Quoted from Mike_J:I need some advice here.
I am going to install the cabinet brackets/braces on a friend's GB. There is now a tear in the cabinet decal due to this crack, but I believe when I adjust the cabinet I will be able to push the decal back in place where it becomes almost impossible to see where the decal came apart.
Is there anything I should use to coat the area where the split occurred so that the decal does not lift and begin curling after the repair is complete?
Thank You
Also, get some pipe clamps to draw the cabinet back together then put the hd leg braces on.
Quoted from PW79:My distro is out of state.
I'm trying to balance "not my mother F'n job you sold me a turd" with "I appreciate Stern sending me a nice cabinet"
My plan is to have a long term happy relationship w/Stern & my distro so I dont want to be a PITA then become the repeat customer they despise but... damn, a lot can go wrong on my part if I assume this risk on a NIB pin I didn't purchase just to take apart & rebuild.
I don't picture the factory workers as genius engineers but I do think they have experience which makes their work an automation & simple task (to them).
Here's what I tell my customers. "What I do isnt difficult per se but it does take a little finesse & style which can only be gained by doing it wrong the first few times".
Many expensive surveillance & alarm components have been "cooked" by PW79. I'm good now, its easy shit today, but daaaamn did I let out some magic smoke on some boards. Weird sounds too lol
Just take a bunch of pictures of your good game then put it back together like the pictures in the new cab. Have a pinball friend help.....if you have a pinball friend that is.
Quoted from PW79:I'm not gonna guilt & bamboozle the very few local pinball folks I know into helping me with this.
If someome asked me to do the same for them I'd be like "New phone who dis?"
No guilt or bamboozle just tell them you'll have some food and drink if they help, make it a fun time where all would learn something new. Either that or pay someone to do it. It aint rocket science especially with a Spike game.
Quoted from PW79:I already paid someone to build my game.
Stern
Well we all know that didn't work out well so now it's up to you....or are you just gonna sit there and cry about it or take the bull by the horns and DO something about it! Or are ya gonna just sit here and piss and moan? You CAN do it. Just don't try and do it with the legs on.
Quoted from PW79:I'm gonna let Stern fix it.
Then piss & moan
Quoted from Pinzap:Well, I'm closer to St Cloud... and I don't have a cabinet to switch out, but I do have an IJ (Wms) I'd like to restore and start with new decals for the cabinet. When is good for you and what do you like on your pizza?
Quoted from PW79:Good news!
Stern has agreed to send a tech to disassemble & reassemble my cabinet.
I'm really pleased with the process so far. My distro (GRG) & Stern have made it way too easy for me to justify ordering something new soon.
Guess I better troll some JJP threads to earn my keep now
That's great. 
Quoted from chucksmith:I've heard others say the same thing about a tech coming out. Personally I would not try to Herc a playfield out all by myself. I'm not as young as I used to be and I like my back not hurting.
Oh it's not THAT bad, I lifted mine out all by myself and I'm only 160 lbs. It only weighs about 40-50 lbs
Quoted from PanzerFreak:tern won't include a bracket that cost them a couple bucks on a $5500 luxury item...sad.
A couple of bucks? They probably buy 10,000 and pay 20 cents each, so more like $0.40 per game.
Quoted from fosaisu:Which is why it makes no sense, setting aside the cost and bad PR of cab splitting, how could the hassle of multiple cab designs be worth it? If they're really going with this new super-reinforced design, maybe they were using up old cabinet stock on some/all of the SW Pros?
Hopefully someone will post a pic, I'd like to see what the SW Pros look like inside.
Stern making sense? They just don't want us "morons" telling them how to make their games.
Quoted from wtatumjr:If you look at my AS and GB, both of which split, there seem to be missing plys of wood. This would probably account for a weak joint. (My As and GB were built nearly the same time)
If there was a missing ply of wood the plastic glass channel would over hang or be even with the inside of the cabinet sides. Is that what your seeing on your games?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I helped someone unbox a brand new metallica pro last night. Game is flawless in every way and required zero adjustments out of the box. Plays perfectly.
That's the way my Mustang Pro and GB Pro were too and they're still perfect.
Quoted from fosaisu:To close the loop on the issue of SW Pro vs. Premium cabinet brackets, here's a picture of what's in the Pro (thanks thelaw):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-announces-star-wars-pinball/page/149#post-4040083And here's the Premium/LE (thanks trekkie1978):
I'm not saying that the SW Pro is insufficient, I don't know enough about what was causing the splitting issues with some GB and AS cabinets. As a Premium owner, I do like the look of the beefier hardware though.
That's sad, they cheap out on the Pro. 
Quoted from EricHadley:Which leg bolt plates are people adding to reinforce their Stern cabinets?
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/535-7394-00
or
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/01-11400-1
The second one. Why on Earth would pay twice the price for an inferior one. And with the bulk discount it's a no brainer. I bought 24 and got the good price.
Quoted from EricHadley:But do the bolts line up with a Stern?
Yes perfectly. I put them on all my games, from Space Shuttle to GB Pro. The legs and hole position hasn't changed in I don't know how long.
Quoted from EricHadley:ok cool, Thanks! ordering 24! Decided to add them to all my Stern machines, just in case.
The brace on the start button side can only be mounted with the long end down because of the tournament button on newer Sterns but the shooter side can go on with the long end facing up which gives more strength to the top corner. The screw threads are pressed in fittings so I had my buddy put a couple of spot welds on each one to keep them from spinning (it happened to me a couple of times on another game) if the bolt gets cross threaded. Then I cleaned them up and painted them with cold galvanizing paint to keep the welds from rusting.
Quoted from PinMonk:That's the best reason. They need to catch up or reorganize or shake up management or SOMETHING to get their act together. I'm out of Stern NIB until I see changes in the field, not promises.
Fortunately Houdini and jPotC can fill that void just fine for the next 6-12 months.
What they need is about 3 or more code programmers. If they can find them I'll bet they aint cheap so you'd probably looking at another price increase to pay for them.
Quoted from twinmice:Stern again never disappoints! I can’t speak for everyone, and sorry for those who have had trouble with stern warranty, but stern has always taken care of any problems I have had. Just got my replacement cab! Thanks again Chas!
I'll hold my praise until I see it out of the box.
If I could afford an Iron Maiden I'd buy one......and the first thing I would put on it (and any new Stern for that matter) would be the HD leg braces. I have them on all my games now. $20 well spent if ya ask me.
Quoted from Concretehardt:Are they necessary on the back of the cabinet? I have never heard of a rear cabinet spitting.
Probably not but now I have piece of mind that they never will and all my legs are now rock solid.
Quoted from RipleYYY:may be i've missed the info on this topic, but do we know when STERN (or cabs manufacturer(s) ) did change their way of doing ?
for what i understand, this is not "linked" with a pinball, but more with a key point/change on the timeline (as of course old & new cabs can be used for various runs of various pins)
as for example : my TWD, build july 2017, have the "bad" plates in it (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reinforcing-stern-cabinet-legs-step-by-step)
fingers crossed, all still OK...
Don't glue the screws in, if you ever cross thread a bolt and spin one of the pressed in fittings you'll never get the plate off. The 8 screws are more then enough to keep that plate from ever coming loose. I've had 2 spun fittings before and if I had glued the screws in I REALLY would have been a world of hurt.
Quoted from FatPanda:Think about this. You, as a customer, have to spend an additional $20 plus time to reinforce something that could be cheaper, and easier to do at the factory, when they are assembling the game, empty cabinet. Instead, they would rather send out new replacement cabinets for the customers that are having issues ("take care of you" as they say). These customers have to find the time and know-how to swap cabinets. Instead of the manufacturer spending the extra FEW dollars (because the can buy parts at cost, in bulk) to upgrade their brackets to something more heavy duty. And yet the community still pumps them with money for every new toy that comes out. Who does this truly benefit? Certainly not you. Why get defensive when customers are reporting issues? Also note that not all Stern customers post on Pinside, so it is entirely possible that people are getting split cabinets that do not post for you to read about.
What next, they start sending out DIY kits for pinball machines instead of completely assembled machines, for the same cost? It's laughable right? But so is having to install your own leg brackets on a brand new machine.
Oh I totally hear you guys and it really is a shame that this has to be left to the customer but what choice do we have...not buy the game...yeah right that went over like a lead balloon. I say $20 and a couple hours of work is well worth NOT having to deal with Stern about a split cabinet.
What ever happened to the good business practice of "listening to your customers"?????? This is such an easy fix.
Quoted from MK6PIN:Sorry for delay...Pics are average ( taken in a bit of a rush) but you get the idea.
Ignore external PS...I do this to all my machines to accommodate mods..
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
That's the way to go, HD leg plates.
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Saint Paul, MN