Apollo 13
Sega, 1995I wasn't really thinking about it, but I'm not doing anything that can't be undone...
just soldering some jumper wires...
I take my time and am carefull... so if it doesn't work I'll ship it off
I guess I just took a little to much time on the de-soldering lol
right...
ok I have the grounds done
and the other jumper
I have the resistors in
I also replaced Q9 fet... pop bumper... meter readings were alot lower than the rest...
I guess that's all I can do until I get caps... so...
okay... I look foward to it...
I'm kinda bummed about this whole thing
but one way or the other we'll get through
Quoted from APOLLO_13:put the board in and q13 didn't lock on yah...
bottom and left pop bumpers did though...
it seems like taking 2 of the three coils out (off the board) and now I have a total of 3 acting up again... something is going on beyond/ before the U2
This is very strange!!!
The pops were fine all along and now they are doing the same thing as the 3 coils that were latching on! Now Q12 and 14 are out of the circuit and Q15 and 16 are now doing the same coil latch ON thing.
What's even stranger is that the pops coils are getting their V+ DC not from the +50 VDC that the coils for Q12 and 14 are getting. On the schematic I have I cannot read the text in the block that shows where the pop coils are getting their DC voltage from. Does anyone know?
Apollo you have done a good job. I wouldn't let the lifted pads get you down. It's happened to all of us at one time or another no matter how good or careful we are.
I would have liked it if you had performed the grounding of the gate on either Q12, 13 or 14, when I asked earlier. It might have produced some smoke but sometimes that can be a good thing for finding the problem. We could have started with a low value resistance and work our way down to Gnd to be on the safe side. It may have shown us where the gate was getting it's DC from or at least provided a clue.
Other than that we have just about tried every logical thing to try.
This problem has turned into a real dog! There is always a logical explanation, we just haven't found it.
As far as sending the PCB to Anthony or someone else, that is your call to make. You have done all the work and maybe it will make it easier on you if you have someone else look it over.
Irregardless, I'll still help anyway I can and I'm sure others here at Pinside will do the same.
Quoted from pdman:This is very strange!!!
The pops were fine all along and now they are doing the same thing as the 3 coils that were latching on! Now Q12 and 14 are out of the circuit and Q15 and 16 are now doing the same coil latch ON thing.
Q9 left bumper and Q10 bottom bumper... Q9 is were my loose wire was... that I think started this whole thing in motion... but ya I thought it was weird that nomatter what's going on I have 3 coils that are goofy...
Quoted from pdman:What's even stranger is that the pops coils are getting their V+ DC not from the +50 VDC that the coils for Q12 and 14 are getting. On the schematic I have I cannot read the text in the block that shows where the pop coils are getting their DC voltage from. Does anyone know
the book shows dc comes from j10-4/5
j9 were they plug in is Q9 is j9-p1 lt pop
and Q10 is j9-p2 bottom pop
Quoted from pdman:I would have liked it if you had performed the grounding of the gate on either Q12, 13 or 14, when I asked earlier. It might have produced some smoke but sometimes that can be a good thing for finding the problem. We could have started with a low value resistance and work our way down to Gnd to be on the safe side. It may have shown us where the gate was getting it's DC from or at least provided a clue
I'm sorry now I didn't try that first...
I had no idea.
My Bad!!
I was looking at the left and right flippers not the pops, labeled as turbo.
So Q9 coil circuit is getting +50VDC same as Q12, 13 and 14.
Do you have the parts to get the Q12 circuit completed?
If you do I would suggest doing this and then we see if the coil latches again and if so we do the Gate grounding test.
If you don't want to do it, that's fine.
Or if you do, you could do it tomorrow, take a break for the rest of the night.
Totally your call.
I'm short 2 caps... I placed the order today, so they should be here on Tuesday, I ordered 250...
I wish I had them...I ready to find out more.
I could take 1 of the P8 side? and then not plug in p8
I'll check back in tomorrow
night all 11:32 est
Quoted from APOLLO_13:I have a black hole board I could look and see if it has some on it
No, don't do that. Just wait for the parts to come in.
Make sure that those pins you left for the ground aren't so long they hit anything behind the board when the board is re-installed. Most backplanes behind the boards are metal and grounded, so you don't really want anything touching behind the board when reinstalled. I've never looked behind my TSPP so not sure what the material makeup behind the board is.
I'll take a look, I hung it back in there last night... so nothing else would happen to it, but I didn't tighten the screws.
yup it's full metal back plate...
re did what I did last night to make it shorter and closer to the board...
thanks for that catch...
got the new caps in today and put them in...
plugged in and turned on, and when I closed the coin door the vuk was fine
the right sling is good.
the left sling locks on, the bottom pop locks on...
disconnected left sling and bottom pop... powered back up and the
left pop locks on, disconnected left pop... powered back up and the
right pop locks on... disconnected right pop... powered back up
and played a game... vuk works, and right sling works...
disconnected are the bottom, left, and right pops, and the left slingshot
You have a possessed board....That's about all I can say....
So, to summarize, you rebuilt the three sections left sling, right sling, and vuk with all new caps and FETs? So changing the caps, seemed to fix the right sling and vuk, but not the left sling?
Can you check the other caps that are locking on right now and see if they now read bad?
I think it's time to punt and send the board off for a thorough exorcism....
Robert, holy cow...
right I replaced caps, fet, and resistors for the 3 lt, rt sling and vuk
vuk and right sling are ok now... left is still locking
as well as the bottom pop
what's weird now is that disconnecting lt sling and 1 pop makes a second pop lock
and disconnecting that one locks on the third...
I thought I might pull the board back out and replace those fets, caps, and resistors...
but then that still leaves the left sling hangin out... I don't know
I thought about buying a new board...
using the anti static bag the new one comes in to ship out this one 
and have a spare 
Give Rob a call and see what his turnaround time is....explain to him what you've been through and he might have pity on you and expedite repair. You can wrap your current board in aluminum foil (take batteries OUT!!), box it up and send it to him....But of course up to you.
I'll give him a call right now... didn't know I could wrap it in a faraday cage... but that makes perfect sense
called and spoke with robert, he has a couple shows coming up to he's looking at 3-4 weeks
he could do and exchange, but wouldn't be able to get to me till after this weekend...
I guess this is the end of this thread then...
It's down to buy a new board... send this one off for repair and have a spare.
or send this off for repair
or send it in for a trade on a rebuilt one
I want to thank everyone, (Robertmee and PDman) especially... for all the help trying to figure this one out...
I feel like I've made some friends here...
I hope to learn more and more so I can come back and help someone else sometime.
thank you guys... hey, and look... I made senior pinhead
APOLLO_13
Whatya mean...we got the vuk to work 
I'll put a note in it for him to let me know what the issue was so we can pass it on...
we have way too much time invested on this one to just let it go...
Thanks again... 
Apollo
It would be a good idea to write a concise summary of what the problem was and what we did to try and fix it. Basically some Coils locked on, Fets having no drive voltage from U2 through 22K resistor to Gate, yet gate Voltages @ 2.2 to 4.4 VDC.
Fets were changed, U2 replaced, caps replaced (though I still don't see an open, shorted or leaky cap providing any positve VDC to the Gate).
Coils swapped to different J9 outputs causing, etc, etc.
I'm sure the guy your sending the PCB to will have a few questions as well. Probably best dealt with over the phone.
Yes, keep us informed with your progress both with the replacement PCB as well as the original PCB going out for repair.
Apollo
One more thing. Do you still have any of the Mosfets that you tested as "Blown" or damaged?
If you do, I'd like to test several in a live coil circuit, simulating your Coil circuits.
Could you mail me several?
Let me know.
I thought about doing that, just so they would have some backround...
I don't think they would like a print out of 400+ posts 
I agree it would be easier over the phone...
I will def. repost when I find out what the heck was going on...
thank you agian for everthing...
let me look... I'm sure I do.
if not...I can plug my board back in for a minute and make some
I'll post back when I put my hands on some
I could only find 2 of them, and 1 of them I changed because it read diff.- not bad...
not sure if that's one of those or not...
not sure then if these would do any good...
I can throw a stamp on them if you want em
scratch that... I just found 4 more
1 of them only has 1 leg
so 4 of them are testable
1 has 1 leg and maybe maybe not testable
and 1 is prob. good
Hey guys, new board will be here Saturday and I was wondering if there are any checks I should make before plugging it in...
if I take p9 off and ground each pin it fires the correct coil...
so would that mean everything is ok on the field
I would make sure the correct fuses are in place on the Rottendog board first before putting it in.The fuses are labeled on the board but I would put the correct fuses whats labeled in your game manual.I had a problem awhile back.
OK guys... got the original board back from Keith at K's arcade today... put it in and it works like a champ... 100 bucks, I should have done this in the first place...
called him and he said all he did was change the fets I had already changed and it worked...
of course he fixed the ground wire mod I did... heck it didn't even look like the same board from the back... thinks maybe I had the wrong fets. now I have a rottendog that will work in a13 and lotr... thanks for all the help with this again. here's a plug for Keith.
Keith Apgar
K's Arcade - Pinball parts, boards and electronics superstore.
www.KsArcade.net | 603-774-7800
Order toll free: 1-877-775-5399
Wow, after changing all those Fets , some multiple times, it was the Fets?
What Fets did Keith install, model number? Are they the same as your replacement Fets?
Did he replace all the Fets or just the ones associated with your problem, I think it was Q9 through Q16.
Haven't got to test the Fets you sent me. I'll try and get on that by weeks end.
I'll be testing them dynamically so we'll know if they were good or not.
Scratching my Head, since you changed so many Fets.
Anyways glad your PCB is working as it should.
I'll look at them tonight to see what the part number is... he only replaced the ones I did, so ya it is really weird... I used fets from two diff dealers. hmmm
fets are IRL630 Y89T AB, he replaced Q1, Q11, Q12, Q13, and Q14... fixed the trace, got rid of my ground wire... that's it
Quoted from APOLLO_13:IRL630
Actually less current capacity than the ones you used. Still trying to figure this one out. You changed the Fets with new ones, swapped wires, did everything possible yet now just replacing the Fets that you already replaced fixes the issue
Must have been Mercury Retrograde!
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