Even then, I have gone to other rust removers or pb blaster now over WD. And silcone spray to displace moisture on like chains and stuff. Lol.

Do love the teflon super lube!

Yes. SERIOUSLY. Call it an argument, if you like. I asked a question. You did not answer the question.

I have never seen a stick of graphite hooked up between two battery posts so I don't know what I would see. I have, however, seen what a length of copper wire hooked between two battery posts does. Copper is also a conductive material and pinball machines are nothing if not loaded with copper wire. If a stick of graphite behaves differently than a length of copper wire as a direct short, please tell me what it does.

Graphite is also used as brushes in electric motors and if you have ever watched a commutator spinning you will see the graphite brushes throwing off lots of sparks. But yet, I don't see electric motors catching on fire. Has anybody else?

So, my question remains: What harm is there in using some spray-on dry graphite to lubricate a slingshot pivot point? It is not like you are going to be taking a tube of dry graphite and shaking graphite dust all over the insides of your pinball machine.

I would be concerned where it eventually winds up in machine....just how playfield dirt dust etc did not start out there.

Graphite is conductive. If you hooked a piece to a power supply, it would glow like a light bulb. If you you leave the wood on...well wood will burn......... pinballs contain power and wood.

If you put lower current/voltage through a chunk of graphite, no, it won't burn up like that. Take a fine graphite piece, yes it will. A graphite bushing is conductive. It does not sit against high power constantly locked onto it.

Pull a bushing out of something, find enough power to put through it continuously, and I'm betting it can burn up quick too.

Point was just since we know it's conductive, and that it has a potential to cause an unneeded mess, why risk using it when there are a number of better options well known and readily available?

I mean, how far do you believe a thread would go entitled "should I use graphite or a PTFE gel lube if both are available to me?"?

Normally, I'm a to each his own guy as there many ways and opinion on how to restore and maintain....but I've experience people's use of graphite; I do not want to ever knowingly buy a game again covered in it.

The question was could it short something? The answer is yes. It is conductive, messy, and can burn. It belongs nowhere in a pinball. I believe I answered the question. Should have just said that I guess sorry.

For the WD convo ... I will admit it, When I was a teenager, I used some on an em I bought cheap from my boss because I saw him use it on flippers on route etc a lot...

That em made a few switch sparks and poof, small game fire in my friends basement. Got it out real quick, but yes! That crap will burn even later on.

That was pre digital age....we can learn online without trying ourselves these days

I already tried to explain this, but people are not listening again.
MSDS in conjunction WITH CHEMISTRY.
Now we are discussing the elemental mineral, graphite, instead of WD-40 as a chemical compound.

Understand what is happening.
Does this latest graphite product mention anything about using it INSIDE ELECTRICAL DEVICES?
I guarantee if I called them, they would say, "really bad idea".

Understand the chemical makeup of this plumbago, or native mineral element of carbon.

Graphite is an electric conductor, consequently, useful in such applications as arc lamp electrodes.
The black carbon "gunk" found due to coil action in pinball machines is not solid dry graphite, but mixed with dirt, dust, and other tiny bits of galvanized metal which get ionized due to electromagnetic fields.

Graphite conducts electricity due to the vast electron delocalization within the carbon layers, which in this case is called aromaticity, a cyclic (ring-shaped), planar (flat) molecule with a ring of resonance bonds that exhibits more stability than other geometric or connective arrangements with the same set of atoms. These valence electrons are free to move, so are able to conduct electricity. However, the electricity is primarily conducted within the plane of the layers meaning in one direction. The conductive properties of powdered graphite are commonly used in industrial purposes for lubrication. There are actually several different types of graphite found in nature, but all exhibit similar properties, but have different molecular strengths of the bonds.

However, graphite is more than just a conductor, it BURNS, if provided sufficient contained electrical current.
It does not need an oxidizing agent, except for oxygen based atmospheres (air).

This is beyond the chemical residue concerns based on the pressurized dry canister.

So in this case a person is asking if it is a good idea put a spray of pressurized hydrocarbons containing electro conductive graphite and chemical compound flammable residues inside of pinball machines including around coil lugs, stepper assemblies, and other sparking electrical components??? Does this make any sense yet? Do people understand I am trying to help? Please do not this for your personal safety.

Here is base graphite in action, in the simplest possible way I could find for a visual example.
This is using a 12V car battery, not the even higher voltages found in pinball machines.

Best of fortune.

Ya, but what if I coated the outside of my pencil in an aerosol graphite? OR what if my truck got a flat in the wilderness and I had a pinball I just bought in the bed and it was covered in graphite? If I had a larger size inverter in my truck, could I throw some pencil shavings in the pinball, plug it in, and start a survival fire??

Why not have a person spray their entire body with graphite and WD-40 and hook themselves up to their car jumper cables?

That would be much more exciting.
The next described term is "immolation".

If pinball enthusiasts have additional chemical, cleaning compound, engineering, or technical repair questions regarding coin operated devices or PCBs, just PM, as it is time to move forward.

About 15 years ago, "Robert" was in his late 70's. He grew up in coal country, and spent many an hour digging coal out of veins as a young man. His lungs were predictably in bad shape, and he had a variety of related health issues.

Anyhow, Robert, amongst his many interesting stories* and anecdotes, would swear that the best thing for the chest pains he had was to buy WD-40 (in the liquid gallon-can form) and rub it into his chest. I once asked him if he was having the rubbing done by a topless 22 year old girl - but he insisted he was not and that it was the oil that did the trick. So there.

*The horse in the coal mine was another story but you probably don't wanna hear that one.....

Wait...I'm fascinated. What happens?

EDIT: Never mind. Just saw!

We used to do it in a tech class with power supplies...instructor would swear he smelled something burning. We all would say no

You may be able to place a piece of mechanical pencil graphite across a 9v battery

So it would be for an Electro-Mechanical pencil then?

Well, I could not call them. There is no phone number on the website. There was a question and answer page but i could not get it to work. However, there is a contact page with email addresses. So I emailed the tech support guy, Ted Smith.

http://blastercorp.com/Blaster_corporation_contact_information

********************************
My question to the tech support was whether the spray graphite was a flammable substance.

Me:

Hello, I am asking you a question via email because I cannot get your question and answer page to work.

My question:

Can the spray graphite dry lubricant be used on a shaft pivot point inside a pinball machine where electricity is used and there is electrical arching at opening/closing switch points? Is there a risk of the dry graphite catching fire in this situation?

Please advise.

Thank you.
xxxx

His reply:

Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for your interest in our product. The flammability warning on the can refers to the propellant rather than the graphite itself. If the product is sprayed on de-energized equipment and a few minutes are allowed for the volatiles to evaporate, the product poses no danger of catching fire.
**************************

So, there you have it. From the "horse's mouth" so to speak. Graphite is not flammable

I suppose I could email the engineer for a definitive answer but I figure the tech support knows his company's product. The spray graphite, once it is dry, is not going to catch fire.

I liked that Youtube vid with the guy shorting out the graphite and causing a fire. But how do you know it is not just the graphite getting super hot and the pencil wood catching fire? I could lay a pencil on my electric stove burner and it would catch fire there, too. And I would be willing to bet that if I shorted a piece of 12 gauge wire between two battery posts that it would get red hot and catch fire to a piece of wood laid across just as the graphite in the movie did. ( I speak somewhat from experience as I had a car catch fire under the hood. All the wiring harness was red hot and the insulation burned off. The insulation melted away and did not catch fire, but the magnesium cam cover sure did. Magnesium sure burns pretty).

So, per the tech support guy's reply, once the "volatiles...evaporate", graphite is not going to catch fire. With that being the case, what would be the problem with using spray type graphite, as opposed to powdered graphite, in a pinball machine slingshot kicker pivot point in an effort to reduce wear at a metal-to-metal wear point?

Well, it is conductive. We all agree that graphite is conductive. OK. So it is. So is copper wire. So is every piece of metal inside a pin cab. So what? Unlike powered graphite that can get all over everything, the spray type graphite stays put where you spray it. So why is graphite being conductive a problem and copper wire being conductive not a problem? I don't understand the distinction.

Are there any other reasons to not use spray graphite as a dry lube for metal-to-metal contact parts?

Thanks

Did you ask that guy if it could short out the switches or if the open electrical being used around the graphite could potentially conduct causing other combustible materials near by to ignite and cause a fire? He answered nothing about electrical etc.

Congrats! You now know that the propellant is flammable.

I can not see how someone can even argue about using this!

You win

Try it in a salad inatead of oil. Or maybe ask them about it first.

How about you guys just do your own Mythbusters type expose?

While I wouldn't personally wouldn't use graphite spray since I'm happy with Super Lube, and know it is safe, I don't see why we can't have a discussion about it. There's been a lot of misinformation in this thread and cottonm4 just clarified that graphite spray is not flammable after being applied, and allowed to dry. Ditto for quality contact cleaners.

You do raise a good point about the conductivity of graphite spray, although the attitude isn't really necessary.

My personal concern would be about the graphite getting onto the circuit boards. I'm really not concerned about switches since they are low voltage and it would take a huge amount of graphite to gap across a switch (I'm talking modern games here, not EM's since they do require extra precautions). Even if somehow that happened you would just get a false switch indication, not a fire.

If cottonm4 is interested I would ask the tech support people if it is ok to use the product in an environment with circuit boards. I would also ask about this point that the graphite spray stays put where you spray it. This would require explaining a little more about the environment since metal grit from the solenoid mech's goes everywhere and I would think the graphite could be the same.

As in most technical issues the devil is in the details and I think it's worthwhile to explore those details and gain understanding. Again, in my case it's not going to change what I use, but I do find it interesting and it provides a good example of how you research a product before using it.

The attitude is due to being annoyed that someone openly asks if an item is ok to be used, the overall answers vary from absolutely not, to maybe, to not my choice....not one was YES its the best thing ever; Yet, the person asking keeps going out of their way to defend this product. If a person is insistent on using a product, fine no prob. But, why waste people's time with bothering to ask opinions then.

Graphite wet or dry, sprayed and poured, is messy and WILL someday cause some of it to wind up where it shouldn't be.

Black knight has the right idea with not letting any more time get burgled on this.

What's your graphite doin in boss Kanes pinball...

CoolHandLuke22 (resized).jpg

Thank you. I have sent another email to the tech support rep asking if he would answer some of the questions that have been raised. If I am able to get some answers and if anybody is interested in hearing what a manufacturer of spray graphite has to say, say so and I'll post any answers I get. If no one is interested, I'll keep them to myself and move on.

If you don't post here, shoot me a pm.

Where I work we do a lot of powder coating and that material runs through 11 different Chains that run through 3 different ovens. We use a chain lubricant called Lubecon which is a wet graphite lube. The chain goes through a 500 degree oven and we have never had a issue with fire. The bonding agent which allows us to spray the lube burns off to expose the dry graphite that lubes the bearings which is not flammable. We have never had a problem cutting and welding on the tracks that are covered in dry graphite either. Usually it's the transport agent that is flammable not the graphite.

Everything has a right place and use but places it shouldn't be used. WD-40 is a good product with lots of uses, but it DEFIANTLY doesn't belong in a pin for may reason. Same for Graphite.

I sent off some questions to the safety rep. at the company that makes the dry graphite lubricant to get some further understanding about using spray graphite inside a pinball machine.

1st question)

Pop bumpers and flippers use an electro-magnetic coil that is lined with a plastic anti-friction sleeve. A steel plunger is constantly reciprocating inside this friction sleeve many times during game action. Over time, the plunger can shed minute particles of steel (fines?) that have a way of getting distributed far and wide inside a pinball machine.

If an application of spray graphite is applied to referenced steel plunger in an effort to reduce friction even more than offered by the plastic friction sleeve, will this graphite stay in place? Or will the graphite lose any bonding ability, turn to dust, or powder, and start settling over the insides of the pinball?

------Answer: (I Think he misunderstood me as asking about applying dry lube to the sleeve which I was not).

Eventually, as the plastic sleeve flexes, the graphite will be displaced. I’m not sure how fine the residue would be, but it won’t stay on forever.
********************

Question 2) Is Graphite flammable? There are many open switches spewing voltage arcs during game play inside a pinball machine. What are the odds that that spray graphite could lead to a fire starting inside a pinball cabinet?

Answer: Once the propellant has evaporated, there is zero chance that the graphite would lead to a fire.
*********************

Question 3) The other area in a pinball that could benefit from dry spray graphite are the slingshot kickers. These are bell cranks that rotate clockwise and counter-clockwise in extremely fast motion. Usually the the bell crank pivot rod and sleeve measure at 1/4" diameter and since pinball machine were designed with a short life in mind, these bell cranks are metal-to-metal contact.

There is a lot of friction in the bell crank pivot rod and sleeve. It is a high wear area. How effective would dry spray graphite in this situation?

Answer: Metal to metal, graphite is a great product for long lasting friction reduction.
*****************

Question 4) There are also 3,4,5, or maybe even 6 printed circuit boards that live inside a pinball cabinet. Since the Blaster dry graphite is electrically conductive, what are the odds or possibilities, and cautions or dangers of using dry spray graphite in this sort of environment? Would we be in danger of stray dry graphite bridging between some electrically charged circuit board connections and either causing electrical shorting and damage to the pin, and is there any risk of circuit boards shorting and causing a fire?

Answer: Casual contact will not short out a circuit board.

**********************

Feel free to agree or disagree, I guess. Now, either this company's safety rep is an idiot and giving me crap information, or he knows what his product is about. I'll go with the "he knows what he is talking about" option.

1)In short, spray graphite dry lube IS NOT going to set your pin on fire as was stated (and illustrated ??) above.

2) It is not going to blow out your circuit boards.

3) It is not going to turn your pin into a crispy critter---just make sure you let the propellent dry before you apply power.

4) It is probably not needed on a flipper or pop plunger but I"m not sure it would hurt anything.

Is it going to "gunk" your pinball up? I suppose that is possible, but we are talking a very small amount of dry lubricant.

Are there better products to use? Possibly. I have learned about some other products from this thread.

Are there any other reasons why dry graphite spray lube should not be used? I don't know. If you have some other reason graphite should not be used I'd like to learn about it and know your reasoning.

Thanks.

Some of the old Williams manuals have a section on Lubrication, specifying which parts to lubricate, which to not, and what to use (and not use) -- they recommend only using "special Coin Machine Lubricant".

For example -- from the manual I was just reading, for my new Miss-O:

will-lub (resized).jpg

I use this when needed, but usually only about once a month as i am married and apply liberally and only when needed. No fires yet !

d616eeda-7839-45dd-b47f-02343ad7f351 (resized).jpg

I still prefer the teflon gel lube...she hasn't complained yet.

Never tried aerosol graphite for that yet...guess just don't use anything electric till the aerosol vapors are cleared.

I called the company...sounds like with enough friction...you could set her pussy on fire !!

Did you explain the mechanics of it to the manufacturer properly though??

Quick follow up, I just checked the new tube of it I purchased this week and the new package states heavy-duty, clean, and...and...and...food grade! Possibly edible? (Kidding about eating it of course...aka kids don't try this at home).

Oh, as an actual helpful note, I previously found this at Ace Hardware, but purchased this last tube at harbor freight for a few bucks cheaper.

KIMG0035 (resized).jpg

Actually i did. Here is the actual conversation....

Me.. Hi guy, need some kick ass lube that wont blow up....
Guy.. Whats it for ?
Me.. I need to lubricate two parts that move against each other for a very short period of time that wont ignite .
Guy.. Is it metal on metal ?
Me..No but really feels like it most of the time.
Guy..How hot does it get ?
Me..not very hot at all.
Guy..Then you should be fine. You just might have to scrape out the gunk every once in a while to keep it clean.
Me..Thats what i keep telling her !!

I had to get up out of my chair before I fell off it! Awesome.

cottonm4, thanks for sharing the responses you got.

I agree. Probably the best post here.

I find it interesting that the last sentence says to use flaked graphite on solenoid plungers after they have been cleaned. However, this was back when plunger sleeves were not plastic.

I also find it interesting that flaked graphite does not seem to be considered a lubricant--at least the way your Miss-O instructions were written.

Screen Shot 2017-05-10 at 6.57.18 PM (resized).png

With syncolon, hmmm where you going with that stuff?

EVERYWHERE I can baby!!!!

I found this old unused tube of lubricant in the bottom of the cabinet of a Williams Hot Tip I just picked up couple days ago...someone knew better than to use it I guess.

williamslube (resized).jpg