(Topic ID: 2851)

Please don't do this...

By glilly-BOA

13 years ago


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  • 89 posts
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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by bronco-jon
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    #50 7 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Whoa. Hold on here. I read the MSDS. I will agree that the propellent/liquid/vapor is flammable. However, once dry, the graphite that is left behind is not flammable. That was my take-away from reading the MSDS. Combustible? Yes. But not flammable. Not anywhere that I can in online research that I can find, anyway.
    ***********************
    https://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/25027
    " GRAPHITE is non-flammable in bulk form, but combustible. A reducing agent. Mixtures of graphite dust and air are explosive when ignited. Reacts violently with very strong oxidizing agents such as fluorine, chlorine dioxide, and potassium peroxide. Almost inert chemically when in bulk form. Keep away from ignition sources and oxidizing agents."
    *********************
    However, since I am not able to find consistently reliable information as to graphite being/or not being flammable, I liberally sprayed some of the Blaster brand on to a twisted wire brush handle and let it dry. And then I hit it with a torch type charcoal grill lighter to see what would happen. Nothing happened. It did not catch fire. After repeated attempts it did not catch fire; I seriously doubt that a pinball machine would catch fire with graphite being sprayed onto a slingshot plunger---which could be considered a non-electrical use of spray graphite.
    As another poster offered, graphite is conductive. I can't argue that, but with such a small amount of graphite being sprayed on plunger is that enough to cause shorting out problem with a flipper EOS switch? What about using spray graphite on the pivot for the slingshot kicker arm? The sling pivot is a high wear-point area and all metal-to-metal contact. I have had to replace three slingshot pivots due to them being completely worn out of tolerance. I think is pivot point would be a good candidate for some spray graphite to reduce wear on this pivot. It is not like a drop of liquid oil that will absorb dirt, or any other trash a pin might produce on the under side of a play field.
    Other than flammability, which I don't agree with, and conductivity that I am not sure about, what other reasons would there be to not use spray graphite at wear points inside a pinball machine?

    SERIOUSLY? There is actually an arguement about whether a conductive material should be sprayed on ANY pinball parts??

    Go hook your car battery charger to the ends of a regular graphite pencil for a minute, come back on here, tell us why graphite should not be used on an electrical component.

    #51 7 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    WD-40 is good for freeing up crusty and rusty leg levelers and stubborn locks, but that's about it.
    Super Lube is a nice substitute for the original grease used on steppers, gears, and metal to metal pivot points on pinball machines.

    Even then, I have gone to other rust removers or pb blaster now over WD. And silcone spray to displace moisture on like chains and stuff. Lol.

    Do love the teflon super lube!

    #53 7 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Yes. SERIOUSLY. Call it an argument, if you like. I asked a question. You did not answer the question.
    I have never seen a stick of graphite hooked up between two battery posts so I don't know what I would see. I have, however, seen what a length of copper wire hooked between two battery posts does. Copper is also a conductive material and pinball machines are nothing if not loaded with copper wire. If a stick of graphite behaves differently than a length of copper wire as a direct short, please tell me what it does.
    Graphite is also used as brushes in electric motors and if you have ever watched a commutator spinning you will see the graphite brushes throwing off lots of sparks. But yet, I don't see electric motors catching on fire. Has anybody else?
    So, my question remains: What harm is there in using some spray-on dry graphite to lubricate a slingshot pivot point? It is not like you are going to be taking a tube of dry graphite and shaking graphite dust all over the insides of your pinball machine.

    I would be concerned where it eventually winds up in machine....just how playfield dirt dust etc did not start out there.

    Graphite is conductive. If you hooked a piece to a power supply, it would glow like a light bulb. If you you leave the wood on...well wood will burn......... pinballs contain power and wood.

    If you put lower current/voltage through a chunk of graphite, no, it won't burn up like that. Take a fine graphite piece, yes it will. A graphite bushing is conductive. It does not sit against high power constantly locked onto it.

    Pull a bushing out of something, find enough power to put through it continuously, and I'm betting it can burn up quick too.

    Point was just since we know it's conductive, and that it has a potential to cause an unneeded mess, why risk using it when there are a number of better options well known and readily available?

    I mean, how far do you believe a thread would go entitled "should I use graphite or a PTFE gel lube if both are available to me?"?

    Normally, I'm a to each his own guy as there many ways and opinion on how to restore and maintain....but I've experience people's use of graphite; I do not want to ever knowingly buy a game again covered in it.

    #54 7 years ago

    The question was could it short something? The answer is yes. It is conductive, messy, and can burn. It belongs nowhere in a pinball. I believe I answered the question. Should have just said that I guess sorry.

    #55 7 years ago

    For the WD convo ... I will admit it, When I was a teenager, I used some on an em I bought cheap from my boss because I saw him use it on flippers on route etc a lot...

    That em made a few switch sparks and poof, small game fire in my friends basement. Got it out real quick, but yes! That crap will burn even later on.

    That was pre digital age....we can learn online without trying ourselves these days

    #57 7 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    I already tried to explain this, but people are not listening again.
    MSDS in conjunction WITH CHEMISTRY.
    Now we are discussing the elemental mineral, graphite, instead of WD-40 as a chemical compound.
    Understand what is happening.
    Does this latest graphite product mention anything about using it INSIDE ELECTRICAL DEVICES?
    I guarantee if I called them, they would say, "really bad idea".
    Understand the chemical makeup of this plumbago, or native mineral element of carbon.
    Graphite is an electric conductor, consequently, useful in such applications as arc lamp electrodes.
    The black carbon "gunk" found due to coil action in pinball machines is not solid dry graphite, but mixed with dirt, dust, and other tiny bits of galvanized metal which get ionized due to electromagnetic fields.
    Graphite conducts electricity due to the vast electron delocalization within the carbon layers, which in this case is called aromaticity, a cyclic (ring-shaped), planar (flat) molecule with a ring of resonance bonds that exhibits more stability than other geometric or connective arrangements with the same set of atoms. These valence electrons are free to move, so are able to conduct electricity. However, the electricity is primarily conducted within the plane of the layers meaning in one direction. The conductive properties of powdered graphite are commonly used in industrial purposes for lubrication. There are actually several different types of graphite found in nature, but all exhibit similar properties, but have different molecular strengths of the bonds.
    However, graphite is more than just a conductor, it BURNS, if provided sufficient contained electrical current.
    It does not need an oxidizing agent, except for oxygen based atmospheres (air).
    This is beyond the chemical residue concerns based on the pressurized dry canister.
    So in this case a person is asking if it is a good idea put a spray of pressurized hydrocarbons containing electro conductive graphite and chemical compound flammable residues inside of pinball machines including around coil lugs, stepper assemblies, and other sparking electrical components??? Does this make any sense yet? Do people understand I am trying to help? Please do not this for your personal safety.
    Here is base graphite in action, in the simplest possible way I could find for a visual example.
    This is using a 12V car battery, not the even higher voltages found in pinball machines.
    Best of fortune.
    » YouTube video

    Ya, but what if I coated the outside of my pencil in an aerosol graphite? OR what if my truck got a flat in the wilderness and I had a pinball I just bought in the bed and it was covered in graphite? If I had a larger size inverter in my truck, could I throw some pencil shavings in the pinball, plug it in, and start a survival fire??


    #61 7 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Wait...I'm fascinated. What happens?
    EDIT: Never mind. Just saw!

    We used to do it in a tech class with power supplies...instructor would swear he smelled something burning. We all would say no

    #62 7 years ago

    You may be able to place a piece of mechanical pencil graphite across a 9v battery

    #65 7 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Well, I could not call them. There is no phone number on the website. There was a question and answer page but i could not get it to work. However, there is a contact page with email addresses. So I emailed the tech support guy, Ted Smith.
    http://blastercorp.com/Blaster_corporation_contact_information
    ********************************
    My question to the tech support was whether the spray graphite was a flammable substance.
    Me:
    Hello, I am asking you a question via email because I cannot get your question and answer page to work.
    My question:
    Can the spray graphite dry lubricant be used on a shaft pivot point inside a pinball machine where electricity is used and there is electrical arching at opening/closing switch points? Is there a risk of the dry graphite catching fire in this situation?
    Please advise.
    Thank you.
    xxxx
    His reply:
    Mr. XXXX,
    Thank you for your interest in our product. The flammability warning on the can refers to the propellant rather than the graphite itself. If the product is sprayed on de-energized equipment and a few minutes are allowed for the volatiles to evaporate, the product poses no danger of catching fire.
    **************************
    So, there you have it. From the "horse's mouth" so to speak. Graphite is not flammable
    I suppose I could email the engineer for a definitive answer but I figure the tech support knows his company's product. The spray graphite, once it is dry, is not going to catch fire.
    I liked that Youtube vid with the guy shorting out the graphite and causing a fire. But how do you know it is not just the graphite getting super hot and the pencil wood catching fire? I could lay a pencil on my electric stove burner and it would catch fire there, too. And I would be willing to bet that if I shorted a piece of 12 gauge wire between two battery posts that it would get red hot and catch fire to a piece of wood laid across just as the graphite in the movie did. ( I speak somewhat from experience as I had a car catch fire under the hood. All the wiring harness was red hot and the insulation burned off. The insulation melted away and did not catch fire, but the magnesium cam cover sure did. Magnesium sure burns pretty).
    So, per the tech support guy's reply, once the "volatiles...evaporate", graphite is not going to catch fire. With that being the case, what would be the problem with using spray type graphite, as opposed to powdered graphite, in a pinball machine slingshot kicker pivot point in an effort to reduce wear at a metal-to-metal wear point?
    Well, it is conductive. We all agree that graphite is conductive. OK. So it is. So is copper wire. So is every piece of metal inside a pin cab. So what? Unlike powered graphite that can get all over everything, the spray type graphite stays put where you spray it. So why is graphite being conductive a problem and copper wire being conductive not a problem? I don't understand the distinction.
    Are there any other reasons to not use spray graphite as a dry lube for metal-to-metal contact parts?
    Thanks

    Did you ask that guy if it could short out the switches or if the open electrical being used around the graphite could potentially conduct causing other combustible materials near by to ignite and cause a fire? He answered nothing about electrical etc.

    Congrats! You now know that the propellant is flammable.

    I can not see how someone can even argue about using this!

    You win

    Try it in a salad inatead of oil. Or maybe ask them about it first.

    #68 7 years ago
    Quoted from terryb:

    While I wouldn't personally wouldn't use graphite spray since I'm happy with Super Lube, and know it is safe, I don't see why we can't have a discussion about it. There's been a lot of misinformation in this thread and cottonm4 just clarified that graphite spray is not flammable after being applied, and allowed to dry. Ditto for quality contact cleaners.
    You do raise a good point about the conductivity of graphite spray, although the attitude isn't really necessary.
    My personal concern would be about the graphite getting onto the circuit boards. I'm really not concerned about switches since they are low voltage and it would take a huge amount of graphite to gap across a switch (I'm talking modern games here, not EM's since they do require extra precautions). Even if somehow that happened you would just get a false switch indication, not a fire.
    If cottonm4 is interested I would ask the tech support people if it is ok to use the product in an environment with circuit boards. I would also ask about this point that the graphite spray stays put where you spray it. This would require explaining a little more about the environment since metal grit from the solenoid mech's goes everywhere and I would think the graphite could be the same.
    As in most technical issues the devil is in the details and I think it's worthwhile to explore those details and gain understanding. Again, in my case it's not going to change what I use, but I do find it interesting and it provides a good example of how you research a product before using it.

    The attitude is due to being annoyed that someone openly asks if an item is ok to be used, the overall answers vary from absolutely not, to maybe, to not my choice....not one was YES its the best thing ever; Yet, the person asking keeps going out of their way to defend this product. If a person is insistent on using a product, fine no prob. But, why waste people's time with bothering to ask opinions then.

    Graphite wet or dry, sprayed and poured, is messy and WILL someday cause some of it to wind up where it shouldn't be.

    Black knight has the right idea with not letting any more time get burgled on this.

    #69 7 years ago

    What's your graphite doin in boss Kanes pinball...

    CoolHandLuke22 (resized).jpgCoolHandLuke22 (resized).jpg

    3 weeks later
    #77 6 years ago
    Quoted from SUPERBEE:

    I use this when needed, but usually only about once a month as i am married and apply liberally and only when needed. No fires yet !

    I still prefer the teflon gel lube...she hasn't complained yet.

    #78 6 years ago
    Quoted from pacmanretro:

    I still prefer the teflon gel lube...she hasn't complained yet.

    Never tried aerosol graphite for that yet...guess just don't use anything electric till the aerosol vapors are cleared.

    #80 6 years ago
    Quoted from SUPERBEE:

    I called the company...sounds like with enough friction...you could set her pussy on fire !!

    Did you explain the mechanics of it to the manufacturer properly though??

    #81 6 years ago

    Quick follow up, I just checked the new tube of it I purchased this week and the new package states heavy-duty, clean, and...and...and...food grade! Possibly edible? (Kidding about eating it of course...aka kids don't try this at home).

    Oh, as an actual helpful note, I previously found this at Ace Hardware, but purchased this last tube at harbor freight for a few bucks cheaper.

    KIMG0035 (resized).jpgKIMG0035 (resized).jpg

    #83 6 years ago
    Quoted from SUPERBEE:

    Actually i did. Here is the actual conversation....
    Me.. Hi guy, need some kick ass lube that wont blow up....
    Guy.. Whats it for ?
    Me.. I need to lubricate two parts that move against each other for a very short period of time that wont ignite .
    Guy.. Is it metal on metal ?
    Me..No but really feels like it most of the time.
    Guy..How hot does it get ?
    Me..not very hot at all.
    Guy..Then you should be fine. You just might have to scrape out the gunk every once in a while to keep it clean.
    Me..Thats what i keep telling her !!

    I had to get up out of my chair before I fell off it! Awesome.

    #88 6 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    With syncolon, hmmm where you going with that stuff?

    EVERYWHERE I can baby!!!!

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