(Topic ID: 343117)

Pinball Hall of Fame is a joke.

By Squeakman

10 months ago


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    #201 10 months ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    That's an easy answer - Next Level, outside Portland OR.

    That's a different animal. They don't have a single EM machine.

    #202 10 months ago

    I’m on my way to do the unthinkable, fix a game at the brewery while it’s open!!! Wish me luck.

    #203 10 months ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    I’m on my way to do the unthinkable, fix a game at the brewery while it’s open!!! Wish me luck.

    pinheads will probably buy you a beer for fixing the broken game.

    #204 10 months ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    I’m on my way to do the unthinkable, fix a game at the brewery while it’s open!!! Wish me luck.

    Whatever you do .... DON'T run around the machines !

    #205 10 months ago

    What about maybe doing it like Alameda does? They shut down Monday for repairs and then everyone knows Tuesday is a great day to visit. Sucks to be down 1 day but works pretty good for them although it is far smaller. Just scale it up and maybe the PHOF could have it working good? Or pick any given slow day even. At least things could possibly be running well.

    Or, maybe a room that is a repair room? Less noise and is not in the open. Keyed entry for staff only. Guess it depends on what space is available.

    At least with 1 down day a week, you only have maintenance that day. Not sure who will work just 1 day a week doing that though. Maybe someone retired from the biz? Or have at least 2 reliable techs on the payroll for constant repairs. Got to let them burn the midnight oil though.

    18
    #206 10 months ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    That's an easy answer - Next Level, outside Portland OR.
    Almost 300 clean, working pinball machines and a couple hundred arcades. The place is spotless, the staff is friendly and it leaves you feeling good when you go home.
    They have staff cleaning machines not just working on them. Not one machine on the floor is down. One tech was going down a row of sterns rebuilding all the flippers. Not just the ones that needed them, all of them.
    The merch isn't just a pile of shit thrown in second-hand display cases.
    It's been open 6 years and covers 20,000 sqft., soon to be 27,000.
    Prominence? PHOF may be infamous, but NL has been voted best arcade in the world multiple times.
    They have the same number of working ultra-rare pinball machines as PHOF- 0. Who cares if they have them if you can't play them?
    They aren't on the LV Strip, so no their attendance won't match, but there is no doubt in my mind the place would be just as nice if it did.
    If anyone wants to see how to do it at scale, go visit.

    That’s how you run a business versus the excuse making PHOF.

    It’s really a Hall of Shame right now due to poor management.

    Do they care? A different agenda appears to be the case. I could care less

    In Vegas, the last thing I want to do is go to some broken down POS waste of time

    #207 10 months ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    pinheads will probably buy you a beer for fixing the broken game.

    Quoted from starfighter:

    Whatever you do .... DON'T run around the machines !

    Stuck ball on Lebowski. In and out in 2 minutes. No tales of terror.

    #208 10 months ago
    Quoted from Tydence:

    That's a different animal. They don't have a single EM machine.

    Not really that different. PHOF issues aren’t limited to EMs, the sterns and SS machines stink too.

    The point is NL knows how to manage hundreds of machines and keep them nice. They hire real staff and are customer friendly.

    I have no doubt that if NL wanted EMs they would hire techs and do it right.

    #209 10 months ago

    This says everything

    “The constant noise and interruptions from customers is also physically and mentally DRAINING.”

    #210 10 months ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Not really that different. PHOF issues aren’t limited to EMs, the sterns and SS machines stink too.
    The point is NL knows how to manage hundreds of machines and keep them nice. They hire real staff and are customer friendly.
    I have no doubt that if NL wanted EMs they would hire techs and do it right.

    They clearly care about the customer experience, and allocate the resources to operate efficiently

    #211 10 months ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    That's an easy answer - Next Level, outside Portland OR.

    while i will admit that Jordan and his dad's collection is pretty amazing, i'll point out that Next Level is supported primarily by their retail business selling/trading/reselling pins which benefits to a large extent from having the vast majority of the Washington and Oregon markets (Washington buyers go down to pick up machines sales-tax-free; nobody in the western part of the state can really compete.) NL also has significantly fewer open hours, and with a [not insubstantial] admission model and remote-ish location, they keep out the random and casual public that may not respect the venue and machines.

    that being said, if this is the business model necessary to create an amazing experience then so be it.

    #212 10 months ago
    Quoted from mc300baud:

    while i will admit that Jordan and his dad's collection is pretty amazing, i'll point out that Next Level is supported primarily by their retail business selling/trading/reselling pins which benefits to a large extent from having the vast majority of the Washington and Oregon markets (Washington buyers go down to pick up machines sales-tax-free; nobody in the western part of the state can really compete.) NL also has significantly fewer open hours, and with a [not insubstantial] admission model and remote-ish location, they keep out the random and casual public that may not respect the venue and machines.
    that being said, if this is the business model necessary to create an amazing experience then so be it.

    I try make it down to Next Level in Oregon at least 5 times a year. I've played at many large scale pinball spots and next level takes the cake. If anyone who plays pinball is in or near Oregon it's a must hit spot for a experience you'll never forget.

    #213 10 months ago

    These threads pop up every year or so and they are entertaining to say the least. Every thread I reflect and learn new things. I suggested to move non working machines in back so they can get the repair they need to be operable. Roadrunner has been on the floor(in the middle) for like 5 years now-non operable. Is it an eye sore not working with a sign on it or is it a work of art and people still want to see it? Ok-I get it but when you start to get a considerable amount of games that are non operable does that start to look like they are not operating the business properly? Should they keep games on the floor for museum viewing but put them in the back if they can't get them operable? Does the non profit business model work for such a large operation with the need for skilled technicians to keep things running. Can volunteers really keep up with things? Tim says the EM's are difficult to work on and keep operable with high traffic because nobody knows how to fix them properly, yet people say EM's are bulletproof once dialed in? The PHOF is now worth a pretty penny-probably 10-15M with assets. What happens when Tim does step aside? Does it stay non profit? Inquiring minds want to know

    Also do you like Pizza and should PHOF start selling Pizza?

    10
    #214 10 months ago
    Quoted from pinmister:

    Also do you like Pizza and should PHOF start selling Pizza?

    Greasy buttons. No.

    #215 10 months ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Greasy buttons. No.

    You do know that Tim has 8 pallets of hand sanitizer left over from the pandemic

    #216 10 months ago
    Quoted from BrewersArcade:

    Why does this place still have 4 1/2 stars out of 5 on their google reviews? LEAVE A REVIEW.

    Because people on a pinball forum will never understand why it exists no matter how hard they try. People are selfish by nature.

    The PHOF does not primarily exist for us anal pinball enthusiasts, it primarily exists for Vegas tourists and at the same time supports the local community.

    In other words, this is not a Pinside problem. Vegas tourists that review the business don't know the norms and standards in our hobby (nor should they). Could they do a better job of catering to the pure enthusiasts that want to play all the rare machines? Could they run things better? Of course they could. But, that is not the primary vision and goal.

    To the OP and others pilling on:
    I still choose to support it when I am in town... You don't have to support it if you don't want to support it. Hopefully this explains things well for those who feel like they need to open up new threads tearing down the PHOF whenever they visit the PHOF and their favorite games, grail games, and some toilets don't work.

    Bummer that 80% of the games were off and you turned around and walked out. But, no admission is charged. You wasted a whole 10 minutes out of your life and then made a thread trying to warn others about the horrors of the PHOF, KNOWING others would participate and "pile on" for certain. It's really sad man. We would survive without it and we will survive with it, no matter how good or bad the PHOF appears to be to us all.

    #217 10 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    Because people on a pinball forum will never understand why it exists no matter how hard they try. People are selfish by nature.
    The PHOF does not primarily exist for us anal pinball enthusiasts, it primarily exists for Vegas tourists and at the same time supports the local community.
    In other words, this is not a Pinside problem. Vegas tourists that review the business don't know the norms and standards in our hobby (nor should they). Could they do a better job of catering to the pure enthusiasts that want to play all the rare machines? Could they run things better? Of course they could. But, that is not the primary vision and goal.
    To the OP and others pilling on:
    I still choose to support it when I am in town... You don't have to support it if you don't want to support it. Hopefully this explains things well for those who feel like they need to open up new threads tearing down the PHOF whenever they visit the PHOF and their favorite games, grail games, and some toilets don't work.
    Bummer that 80% of the games were off and you turned around and walked out. But, no admission is charged. You wasted a whole 10 minutes out of your life and then made a thread trying to warn others about the horrors of the PHOF, KNOWING others would participate and "pile on" for certain. It's really sad man. We would survive without it and we will survive with it, no matter how good or bad the PHOF appears to be to us all.

    How exactly does the PHOF support the local community?

    #218 10 months ago

    I love the idea that Tim and PBHOF should start selling pizza.

    That's a concept that could only end in tears for all involved.

    46
    #219 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I love the idea that Tim and PBHOF should start selling pizza.
    That's a concept that could only end in tears for all involved.

    "I'd like to order a pizza."

    "Ovens out of order. Check back with me tomorrow."

    "I'm an appliance repair tech. I'll fix it for no charge."

    "No thanks. I can't risk it."

    #220 10 months ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    "I'd like to order a pizza."
    "Ovens out of order. Check back with me tomorrow."
    "I'm an appliance repair tech. I'll fix it for no charge."
    "No thanks. I can't risk it."

    Now thats funny !

    27
    #221 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I love the idea that Tim and PBHOF should start selling pizza.
    That's a concept that could only end in tears for all involved.

    He should just install a McFlurry machine. It would fit right in with the vibe of PHOF.

    #222 10 months ago

    Self serve Taffy pull and cotton candy

    #223 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I mean, he listed like a half dozen legit excuses.</blockquote

    Because people on a pinball forum will never understand why it exists no matter how hard they try. People are selfish by nature.
    The PHOF does not primarily exist for us anal pinball enthusiasts, it primarily exists for Vegas tourists and at the same time supports the local community.
    In other words, this is not a Pinside problem. Vegas tourists that review the business don't know the norms and standards in our hobby (nor should they). Could they do a better job of catering to the pure enthusiasts that want to play all the rare machines? Could they run things better? Of course they could. But, that is not the primary vision and goal.
    To the OP and others pilling on:
    I still choose to support it when I am in town... You don't have to support it if you don't want to support it. Hopefully this explains things well for those who feel like they need to open up new threads tearing down the PHOF whenever they visit the PHOF and their favorite games, grail games, and some toilets don't work.
    Bummer that 80% of the games were off and you turned around and walked out. But, no admission is charged. You wasted a whole 10 minutes out of your life and then made a thread trying to warn others about the horrors of the PHOF, KNOWING others would participate and "pile on" for certain. It's really sad man. We would survive without it and we will survive with it, no matter how good or bad the PHOF appears to be to us all.

    Just an FYI I live 3 hours away from the PHOF so it’s not just ten minutes of my time wasted. We took the trip to specifically go there. I have been there at least six times in the last two years and the one game they have that I wanted to play more than any other I have never ever seen turned on ever even with the years it was at the old location. I’m talking six years and maybe a few dozen trips. I didn’t post this lightly on a whim. This has been ongoing and just keeps getting worse.

    24
    #224 10 months ago

    I think it should be renamed “Warehouse of Pinball” or back to the original “Pinball’s Big Hit Shed”.
    Calling it the Pinball Hall of Fame sets an unrealistic standard.

    A Warehouse of Pinball sets much more realistic expectations. Concrete floors, loud, broken games, pile of t-shirts, people working on games.

    #225 10 months ago

    snipped for brevity

    Quoted from pinmister: Tim says the EM's are difficult to work on and keep operable with high traffic because nobody knows how to fix them properly, yet people say EM's are bulletproof once dialed in?

    Yep, "Us vs Them."

    12
    #226 10 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    How exactly does the PHOF support the local community?

    You mean besides providing a non-gambling alternative for families visiting Vegas? Well...

    Since 1990, Tim has donated well more than $700,000 to The Salvation Army. But I guess who cares since he's always grumpy right?

    #227 10 months ago

    PHOF:

    Pinball House Of Fail ??
    Pinball Hoard Of Fixer-uppers ??
    Pinball Hopes Or Fantasies ??
    Pinball Happiness Or Farce ??

    I have pointed out the lack of "Hall Of Fame"ness more than once, back on RGP even. But that's a broken record.

    I think some of the recent comments, that the place is for the unwashed public and not for pinball hobbyists, really nail the issue.

    Everyone understands that mechanical toys break. You get in for free, that should negate any complaints for the most part.

    The PHOF accomplishes what it set out to do, and all of our collective hand wringing will never change the formula.

    Hobbyists who treat it as a pilgrimage to a Pinball Mecca are setting themselves up for disappointment.

    And isn't the complaining ironic, with the place being in Vegas, where people put money in machines and get nothing in return on a regular basis? The rubes are used to it!

    #228 10 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    The PHOF does not primarily exist for us anal pinball enthusiasts, it primarily exists for Vegas tourists and at the same time supports the local community.

    I always assumed that >90% of the visitors are one time visitors, basically Vegas tourists that see it as a thing to do, bang on the machines for a while then take off. In that respect it works, people spend a few bucks and have fun.

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I love the idea that Tim and PBHOF should start selling pizza.

    I mean, I'd buy a slice.

    #229 10 months ago
    Quoted from mc300baud:

    while i will admit that Jordan and his dad's collection is pretty amazing, i'll point out that Next Level is supported primarily by their retail business selling/trading/reselling pins which benefits to a large extent from having the vast majority of the Washington and Oregon markets (Washington buyers go down to pick up machines sales-tax-free; nobody in the western part of the state can really compete.) NL also has significantly fewer open hours, and with a [not insubstantial] admission model and remote-ish location, they keep out the random and casual public that may not respect the venue and machines.
    that being said, if this is the business model necessary to create an amazing experience then so be it.

    They make more at the door than selling games.

    #230 10 months ago

    Their collection of machines is fantastic but they need help for sure on repairs. If i could i would stay there for a week and help work on there machines for free.

    #231 10 months ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    PHOF:
    Pinball House Of Fail ??
    Pinball Hoard Of Fixer-uppers ??
    Pinball Hopes Or Fantasies ??
    Pinball Happiness Or Farce ??
    I have pointed out the lack of "Hall Of Fame"ness more than once, back on RGP even. But that's a broken record.
    I think some of the recent comments, that the place is for the unwashed public and not for pinball hobbyists, really nail the issue.
    Everyone understands that mechanical toys break. You get in for free, that should negate any complaints for the most part.
    The PHOF accomplishes what it set out to do, and all of our collective hand wringing will never change the formula.
    Hobbyists who treat it as a pilgrimage to a Pinball Mecca are setting themselves up for disappointment.
    And isn't the complaining ironic, with the place being in Vegas, where people put money in machines and get nothing in return on a regular basis? The rubes are used to it!

    The people thinking they should go wristband are insane. Can you imagine the complaints?

    It costs literally zero money right now to go inside and see if there’s anything worth playing that’s actually working.

    #232 10 months ago

    So the cheapest airfares are always Sundays to Thursday. The cheapest rooms in Vegas are always Sun - Thursday. Why not get 10 to 12 pinball techs around the country, at various times through out the year, come out for those days and do nothing but fix pinball? The PHOF would pay for their airfare, rooms and food. At the end of Thursday, each gets an envelope and heads home or can finish the weekend in Vegas.

    #233 10 months ago

    Reading the PHoF website seems contrary to what many are saying in this thread.

    "I mean like the kind of things we do to maintain these games - we change the rubber rings more often than we have to. We replace light bulbs the minute they burn out. That doesn't make any economic sense. If we were professional, we'd let things slide a little. "

    "The PHoF is grounded by a quality-for-quality's-sake, Zen-and-the-art-of-pinball-maintenance philosophy. The machines here all *work*, and they deliver what they promise - fun. The club members make sure of this, often clad in a carpenter's apron and strung in wire. The Pinball Hall of Fame's reputation is on the line, and it's causing a stir among 'pinheads' worldwide."

    #234 10 months ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    Reading the PHoF website seems contrary to what many are saying in this thread.
    "I mean like the kind of things we do to maintain these games - we change the rubber rings more often than we have to. We replace light bulbs the minute they burn out. That doesn't make any economic sense. If we were professional, we'd let things slide a little. "
    "The PHoF is grounded by a quality-for-quality's-sake, Zen-and-the-art-of-pinball-maintenance philosophy. The machines here all *work*, and they deliver what they promise - fun. The club members make sure of this, often clad in a carpenter's apron and strung in wire. The Pinball Hall of Fame's reputation is on the line, and it's causing a stir among 'pinheads' worldwide."

    Changing a bulb or a rubber before it's worn out isn't going to make any difference to the issues being complained about here. It's non-working machines and machines with critical failures not being turned off that seems to be the issue. Changing a rubber takes almost no effort, that's probably why it gets done with priority over real issues

    #235 10 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    You mean besides providing a non-gambling alternative for families visiting Vegas? Well...
    Since 1990, Tim has donated well more than $700,000 to The Salvation Army. But I guess who cares since he's always grumpy right?

    As u may or may not know theres a shit ton of non gambling entertainment in Vegas. How much has he donated in the last 4 years....look it up u might be surprised

    #236 10 months ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Greasy buttons. No.

    The only food they sell is greasy popcorn and sticky candy out of the gumball machines. So what’s a little pizza grease.

    #237 10 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    You mean besides providing a non-gambling alternative for families visiting Vegas? Well...
    Since 1990, Tim has donated well more than $700,000 to The Salvation Army. But I guess who cares since he's always grumpy right?

    So why don’t a few of those Salvation Army guys help out with the place? I could tell you stories why they don’t, but that’s for another time. #worsethanscientology

    17
    #238 10 months ago

    I was in Vegas in July and halfway through my stay there I recalled that the pinball hall of fame was there. I thought about posting about my experience after I went but decided not to.....but today I saw this thread and figured what the hell. My first thought after walking in was that the sign outside really oversells the place. Outside you would think it was a pinball mecca but when I went in I have to say I too was pretty disappointed. It sort of looks like a tire warehouse and many of their games were not working properly...The newer stern titles were fine (ones from the last 3 years) but a lot of the other stuff was in pretty bad shape.

    I had never played a WoZ and was excited to see they had one. I put my money in and started a game and it was stuck on ball search...I grabbed an employee and they opened it up and force a ball out into the trough so i could start the game. I was playing for a minute or two and realize what the issue was, one of the trees on the pops had completely broken off and was resting on the playfield blocking the ball from being able to go through the pops. I grabbed an employee again and they seemed super annoyed with me and gave me a couple quarters and turned the game off.

    I found a Tron there and it looked pretty dingy but I tried a game anyway. Again issues....the flippers were sagging and really weak. The drop targets didnt always drop or return to position properly and some of the lights werent lighting up at all. I didnt bother to let anyone know about that one because they seemed pissed the first time I tried to point out what was wrong with WoZ.

    Lots of the games didnt work at all and were turned off, many more that were on had things visibly broken on the playfield....and EVERYTHING I played felt like it needed new rubbers and flippers except for the new Sterns.

    The one diamond in the rough was that they had a bond 60th so I was able to get some games in on that. I havent seen that at any other location, so that was a nice surprise.

    I dont want to sound like I am coming down on them, because running a business is hard. It takes a lot of work and it can be hard to find good employees. But thats what you sign up for when you open a place to consumers. I have much nicer locations to play near where I live with much nicer versions of games in nicer spaces that are well maintained.

    My advice would be quality over quantity - 30-40 nicely taken care of games is a better experience than 150 games that are half broken or not working at all. If you want the massive collection and cant maintain it yourself, you need to hire solid people to do it for you. I realize the point of a business is to make money, but if you dont value the customer experience sooner or later that catches up to whatever business you are running. Also I think a name change would make sense.....Pinball Hall of Fame is a misnomer.....Pinball Warehouse or Pinball Garage I think would set better expectations.

    #239 10 months ago

    Basketball hall of fame
    IMG_0236 (resized).jpegIMG_0236 (resized).jpeg
    Baseball hall of fame
    IMG_0238 (resized).jpegIMG_0238 (resized).jpeg
    Hockey hall of fame
    IMG_0237 (resized).jpegIMG_0237 (resized).jpeg
    Football hall of fame
    IMG_0239 (resized).jpegIMG_0239 (resized).jpeg

    ….all mostly considered a disappointment by the hardcore fans…like it should be.

    #240 10 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Basketball hall of fame
    [quoted image]
    Baseball hall of fame
    [quoted image]
    Hockey hall of fame
    [quoted image]
    Football hall of fame
    [quoted image]
    ….all mostly considered a disappointment by the hardcore fans…like it should be.

    I've been to 3/4 ... They were all clean, welcoming, and everything worked so all in all they were great experiences + my kids loved them

    #241 10 months ago

    A byproduct of not getting paid is that the attitude towards customer service is shit. They volunteer to support the games and facility, not to address customer concerns or complaints.

    #242 10 months ago
    Quoted from pinballplusMN:

    I can relate how hard it would be to repair and diagnose with the place open. Imagine trying to diagnose a weird switch matrix issue with tons of noise and customers coming up to you with other issues with other games. Not to mention the challenge of having a hot iron plugged in with kids and people curious all the time.

    I've done repair work in loud, busy arcades. I can handle most mechanical-related repairs without much trouble in that type of environment since most of that is just physical, but when it comes to trying to troubleshoot a technical issue, read manuals & schematics, test component-level parts, trace wiring or PCB paths, do research, or anything else that take some focus and concentration, forget it. It's simply not happening. Most of my mental energy goes to trying to tune out the cacophony happening in the arcade. Any serious technical work needs to happen during off-hours, off-site, or in a back room that cuts down on 90% of the noise/activities taking place in the arcade area.

    #243 10 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Basketball hall of fame

    I was there a number of years ago. It seemed like a nice place. The facility was clean and all the exhibits were in working order. Then again...

    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    ….all mostly considered a disappointment by the hardcore fans

    ..I'm not a hardcore fan.

    -2
    #244 10 months ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    A byproduct of not getting paid is that the attitude towards customer service is shit. They volunteer to support the games and facility, not to address customer concerns or complaints.

    You can encounter that with paid staff, so I'm not sure that's really applicable here.

    -9
    #245 10 months ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    So why don’t a few of those Salvation Army guys help out with the place? I could tell you stories why they don’t, but that’s for another time. #worsethanscientology

    You should change your avatar name to Dumbass, but it’s already taken.

    #246 10 months ago

    It appears to be as simple as this. The place makes money when the doors are open from the large amount of tourists with no idea what to expect, but are attracted by the big sign, large building and the machines inside. Most wouldn't know the true condition of the machines, nor understand that some aren't functioning properly, they just move onto the next game that catches their eye and insert more money, high on anticipation and excitement. Eventually reality sets in and they've had enough, for whatever reason. I bet some even had fun. Either way, they've spent money. That volume of new customers is so large, there really is no need to do anything else.

    The shear number of people through the door, most for the first time, allows the place to stay open and make very healthy donations to the Salvation Army, a charity that Tim has supported for many years. Whether you or I would do things differently, the place meets our expectations or there are many other ways to run it, simply doesn't matter to the owner. Will this model last, who knows, but whilst the money keeps pouring in, and it has for years, why go to all the effort? What it takes to maintain 100's of games on a daily basis may just as well be equal too, or less than what they take in now.

    #247 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    The people thinking they should go wristband are insane.

    Wristbands are a bulletproof idea.

    #248 10 months ago

    Cash only wristbands are a hard sell.

    Gotta be cash only for... reporting purposes.

    #249 10 months ago

    Vegas was better when the slot machines paid out in coins.

    Pinball by the hour, don’t like it. What’s to lose? Rather stick a few coins in and see how far it gets me

    #250 10 months ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    Cash only wristbands are a hard sell.

    It literally works in countless places.

    It's also Vegas, I lived there for years, many places will not let you in the door without a cover charge. This isn't some strange new world idea.

    There are 2,284 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 46.

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