After finally getting the game running right, a new problem has developed: if the ball scores points (ball index relay pulls), but does not go in the kickout hole, which activates to the Special Reel, it will cause the Set up Relay to pull and hold and the ball will sit in the outhole, with the ball trough relay pulled, until either the Center Target is (manually) hit or the kickout hole is (manually) activated. Only then will the ball release set it up to be shot and the ball count advanced. So, it takes either the Special reel relay or the Center Target relay pulling to get things going. Schematic and manual attached (note: the manual is great and shows what each switch on each relay does). Thanks!

Williams_1973_Fun_Fest_Instruction_Manual_no_schematics.pdf

Williams_Fun_Fest_EM_schematics.pdf

Correct. It will just sit there, ball trough relay pulled, until either the center target or special reel reset relays are tripped. IF the special reel is tripped via the kickout hole before it drains all will proceed as it should, ie-scores, ball set up to shoot, ball count advances.

Were that it was that easy, Cactus! All the obvious has been done and done again. Score motor switches are clean and right as well. There is just some weird tie-in with the special reel reset and/or the center target relays that I can't get, like a wire (but again, nothing obvious), and I have tried re-soldering some.

And this may tie-in with a smaller problem I was trying to solve, which is why does the ball release coil keep kicking for a couple up to about 15x when the triple bonus comes on at the last ball. Doesn't matter if the game is set for 3 or 5.

Hi Rolf-I think I have this section of the schematic memorized (!), and I know all the contacts/gaps involved are good. Now, here is the thing that happens: with the game on, pulling the ball trough relay will pull the special reel reset, set up, and outhole relays, and the score motor will run-none of the relays hold. If points are scored (ball index relay pulls) and the ball drains, the ball trough relay pulls as long as the ball is in there, and the set up relay pulls and holds. Nothing else happens ... until the special reel relay or center target relay are tripped.

Dan

Check out the manual to see what each switch on each relay does. It seems it should be a wire with a bad solder, but I can't figure out which one.
Dan

Add tripping bonus relay to those that will make action resume as normal.

Hi Rolf-

The manual contains some info that the schematic does not, or makes it clearer, so it's not a bad idea to cross-check and use both I think. Tripping the bonus, special reel, or center target relays, or hitting the center target itself, will return the ball from the outhole and step the ball count up. Otherwise the ball will sit there with the ball trough and set up relays pulled and nothing will happen. This is the current big problem. Ball release coil does return the ball to the alley, but that is less of a problem right now. And it only happens when the game is working otherwise normally and on the last ball of the game, ie-with triple bonus lit. Thanks, Dan

Here is perhaps a simpler way to view the current problem: Why does the ball have to go into the kickout hole before it drains for the game to proceed normally? OR why does the ball trough relay only pull the set up relay if the ball does not go into the kickout hole before draining?

Whoop, manually pushing the outhole relay also makes things go.

IF the special reel has been activated by the ball going into the kickout hole, everything plays right. It's only if it drains without going in that the stall occurs. When the game is started and no ball played, tripping the ball trough relay makes the special reel, set up, and outhole relays pull and the score motor runs. If the ball drains without going into the kickout hole it will sit there while the ball trough and ONLY the set up relays pull.

Zero switch was checked and cleaned. And the BTR does energize it right away if it is not at zero.

It doesn't score the bonus if it goes in with it off, but does when the set up relay pulls and the target is manually hit.

Question remains: what is the tie in between the special reel reset and the ball draining and play continuing correctly? Oi

Thanks, Cactus and sorry I missed the part about pushing the score motor, but I'm sure that would move things along. Will check it all out tomorrow.

OK, after re-soldering half the wires on various relays it turned out to be Bonus relay switch C, a NC switch that I thought was NO because of a misprint/blur in the manual. It was only after staring at the close-up of the schematic that you posted, Cactus, that I saw that it was supposed to be NC. Took a bit to get it to make a good connection, but thanks much for everyone's help!

Now, on to another problem that I mentioned earlier: why does the ball release coil (which puts the ball up to shoot) usually kick extra times after the ball is up when Triple Bonus is on, either 3 or 5 ball play?

Triple Bonus comes on for the last ball in play.

After the #4 ball drains, the ball release will kick the ball up (ball count advances to 5 and Triple Bonus lite comes on when it hits the outhole) and the ball trough relay and the ball release relay will both keep pulling, but not holding, for anywhere up to about 15x (usually less). The score motor runs while this is happening. Before I fixed the TB (loose wire on Break relay) it was not happening, and it does not matter if it is a 3 or 5 ball game. Re: your last paragraph, the CTR is not energized while this is happening. Also, if you play the ball while things are kicking/motor running it will go to Game Over as soon as points are scored.

Hi Cactus-I understand the ball index relay function, but why would having it energize during that extra kicking sequence lead to game over? And that could happen on player 1 in a multi-player game. And while you're correct that it really is a repetition of the drain sequence, why does it only happen with the TB energized?
Dan

Trying blocking contacts: on the triple bonus relay, blocking D (to energize delay relay at score motor) does nothing. Blocking C (in series with switch 1D on special reel relay reset relay) stops the extra kicking. Blocking 1D on SRRR (in series with switch 2A on center target relay) stops extra kicking. Blocking 2A on CTR (in hold circuit to that relay) does nothing. I didn't try A or B on TBR because A does the lite and B energizes the Break Relay, which in turn energizes the TBR.

So far blocking the C switch on the TBR works the best, but you don't get a triple bonus.

Yes on both. As does the ball trough relay, and the score motor runs during the kicking.

Latest: block on the special reel reset relay switch 2A (hold circuit) stops kicking, allows triple bonus to score, and the SRR functions correctly. Hmmmmm

Yes-clean and good.