(Topic ID: 118281)

How to wax

By toasterman04

9 years ago


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    #46 9 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Then you are definitely either using crap wax, applying way too much, or not removing it properly.
    I have never had any "white specs" from waxing.

    Then either you are doing a stellar job of cleaning... Or not using a true solid wax. The wax will dry to the solid form which you want (so it remains!) and then buff out. There is always residue from the buffing. Its simply a case of cleaning and using clean cloths to minimize. Obviously putting too much on exaggerates the problem and is simply wastful... But particulate is just part of waxing unless you use the liquids or polymers.

    #61 9 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Bullshit.
    It isn't a "stellar job of cleaning" that I do. It's a very simple matter of removing the wax with a high quality micro fiber towel. Doing so will not leave behind any "white spots" or dust when you are using a high quality wax as long as you aren't using too much.
    Nothing you said contradicts my post.

    You keep wiping till you get it all.. the towel isn't some super black hole.. even handling the towel will cause reside to fall out. Dust is part of wax removal.. it's just part of the process. You obviously use clean towels and change out frequently to minimize.. but your wrong to chastise someone because they found some dust afterwards. Simply flipping your towel around on the game can spread stuff caught in the towel.

    I know waxing.. and even jobs like this require extra passes after buffing to get the last stragglers (some really old photos.. mainly because I don't use carnubas on the cars anymore... for this very reason.. they are more work to apply than modern polymers)
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    And for the people preaching about the latest car products like NXT/etc.. which are really polymers instead of pure waxes. This is what polymers can do for a car...
    DCP01437.JPGDCP01437.JPG

    But I still wouldn't use them on my pins. They perform differently with different expectations. Waxing a playfield to me is about sacrificial heroes... you slick it up and let it take the wear instead of the PF underneath. Wax is soft - these polymers are not.

    #64 9 years ago
    Quoted from Schwaggs:

    I disagree, there are some waxes that do not turn to dust when removing them. After the very thin coat of wax hazes and a light wipe of a finger leaves a shiny PF underneath, I remove it with a cloth. With the wax I use, the removed residue sticks to the rag and does not leave dust.

    There are lots of compounds that do lots of things (obviously). What product do you use?

    #68 9 years ago
    Quoted from Schwaggs:

    I agree, the components of automotive waxes vary wildly. Lots of snake oil out there when it comes to automotive products... I know what your are saying and have used waxes in the past that "turn to dust". They typically are easier to remove than non-dusting waxes.

    Yeah, the trade off seems to be the more 'wet' or softer the product remains on the surface, the more buffing it needs to get uniform (especially on dark cars). Some products leave a residue that really takes many clean cloths and good buffing to remove all trace of (presumably the solvents). And of course, the less drying time the wax has, the more it tends to come off as tacky film that collects in the cloth rather than dry cake-y stuff.

    Quoted from Schwaggs:

    I use an old tin of Meguiars #26 Hi Tech Yellow Paste Wax. I store a round terrycloth applicator right inside the tin so I don't waste wax saturating a new applicator each time I wax.

    For waxes I guess I'm more of a purist. For the pastes I stuck with Car Beauty Pro Yellow Wax and Blitz One Grand (The Z photos above were after using Blitz.. and the polymer shot was after using Blackfire). Those are pastes that strive for pure wax - no blends, no polishes, no abrasives. The #26 you listed is a blended wax, and probably why it gives more of the 'film' application/removal experience. I can see why you gave your example... Blackfire paint protection is similar.. it hazes but doesn't really dry out... and becomes a PITA to buff uniform if you wait TOO long.

    Quoted from Schwaggs:

    I don't use this on my cars any more, other products give much better results there but this works well for me on pins.

    Yeah, my back surgeries pretty much put an end to my detail like a pro days with my cars

    #71 9 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Exactly.
    Flynnibus, you appear to know about waxing based on your above post, so I don't really understand why you don't accept this?

    You said if you're getting dust you're doing it wrong.. and even the guy you are quoting as agreeing with said "I know what your are saying and have used waxes in the past that "turn to dust". They typically are easier to remove than non-dusting waxes"

    Dust doesn't mean you're doing it wrong.. its quite common with pure carnuba. The wax dries and crumbles into very particulate that can hang around after the dried wax is removed. *Especially* on anything that picks up a static charge. You minimize it by cycling out your clothes and balancing how long you let it haze. The drier it gets, the more particulate you usually end up with as it sticks together less when removed. You won't see it as much with the blends and doesn't really exist at all with the polymers.

    Where people can do it wrong with pins is simply applying too much or sloppy.. just causing them more work. The ball doesn't even touch the playfield near the base of a post, no need to try to get so close when doing top-off jobs

    I won't even touch the topic of frequency I often see preached on pinside. What is the pinball equivalent to trailer queens?

    #72 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I'm trying to understand this. Wouldn't a harder and longer-wearing surface provide better protection?

    Simply put.. what they are striving for with a car isn't necessarily the same as for a pin.

    First, there is the topic of how they bind/adhere. For games with modern clearcoat it shouldn't really be an issue given they are basically using auto-clear these days. But mylar, decals, bare paint... those are different applications.

    Second, there is the issue of the carrier/suspension/delivery and any interactions that may have. This has seemed to be a non-issue for most people's experience. Again, if your game is modern cleared, less risk here.

    Third, the issue of hardness/slickness. You don't actually want a perfectly smooth frictionless surface... you want the ball to have some bite so spin/etc comes into play. This is the same issue many people had with after market clearing for so many years. The games play different (and not necessarily better) when the surface loses all it's bite. These polymers actually strive to form slick, hardened barriers to protect what's underneath.

    Lastly - how they are cleaned/removed. Removing these layered products when necessary can be more convoluted vs a straight forward wax. This dovetails into the issue of just how clean your game is before application. With car paint finishes, we strive to make the finish pristine and free of all contaminants before we apply sealers/protections. When you're just wiping down the game (especially without stripping the game) and putting on a top coat of protection.. you're not getting that same level of clean before you are applying your protection. The polymers work to create these hard seals designed to never leave. Wax is more your 'disposable hero' and there is less to worry about trapping stuff with it... wax will wear out and is stripped easier.

    If you want to concoon your game.. clear it. Don't use a product intended to layer coats to provide environmental protection. My opinion... YMMV

    #74 9 years ago
    Quoted from Axl:

    Regarding waxing, a friend of mine has the Treasure Cove kit, can you use it by hand?
    Or do you have to use a buffer?
    Axl

    You lose some effectiveness without the buffer. If you are just using the finer polishes, etc its not going to be a big deal.. just more work But the more abrassive stuff, you will want machine action for them to be effective and give uniform action.

    #78 9 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I just ordered these Klasse products:
    amazon.com link »
    amazon.com link »
    I'm really looking forward to trying these on Congo and Dirty Harry, which both saw over 600 plays at the SFGE last June. Is there any reason to use Carnuba on playfields, instead of polymer sealants?

    I sure hope you didn't order those 33oz sizes! That's enough to do many many cars worth This kind of stuff is applied as a film. The Klasse stuff is acrylic intended to form it's own finish on top of stuff. In the very crudest sense.. think of it as liquid plastic.

    We use similar products in toys to gum up joints to make them tighter by forming these very very thin layers to fill in gaps/slack in joints. (see 'future polish' in any toy/model forum).

    IMHO - way to 'permanent' for the kind of finishes I want on my pins.

    #79 9 years ago
    Quoted from Axl:

    So, a question if you are not applying the wax by had, what kind of equipment do you use?
    Just a hand drill?
    Axl

    Pinball has the problem of small spaces... so your classic hand buffer is hard to use unless the game is stripped. I only bother with these hardcore situations when the game is stripped anyways, so I use my dual action orbital when I can and then switch to hand in the tight spots.

    The drill attachment can be used but be careful when using more aggressive abrasive stuff because you are not getting any random action.. so you can burn spots or leave swirls. Most treasure cove customers I imagine are just using a drill attachment.

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