Just remember not to use liquid "wax".

It's mostly silicone polymers, and that's great to beading water, bad for protecting a playfield from wear.

Bad if your playfield ever needs a repair, too.

.

Indeed, most quality waxes will not leave any residue behind. People that are experiencing issues with some type of "white spots" or dusting are doing something wrong (crap wax, applying too much, or doing a terrible job of removing it).

Probably just a bit of wax caught on some playfield feature that gets missed when removing...then dries up and falls off on to playfield later...what's the mystery?

IME, different brands of wax buff off differently. The carriers and solvents the company use "cure" differently. I've used many brands of wax on my cars over the years and some come off in a "powdery" mess and some come off more soft and stick to the wipe rag/towel and some others seem to come off in rolled up blobs.

I believe the brand of wax and the thickness of the wax layer a person puts down is why some people experience wax dust while others do not.

My process is to clean the PF then apply a VERY LIGHT coat of wax. After picking up new wax from the can on the terry cloth applicator, I even the wax out on the applicator to the point where the applicator is "wet" with wax (you cannot see thick wax on the applicator) in the center of the PF before getting close to switches and posts. I never have a problem with gummed up switch slots or star posts.

If you think of the wax as motor "oil" or even suntan lotion you are trying to spread around, you can visualize that you do not need much wax to cover the PF. I bet I use only half a teaspoon of paste wax on an already saturated applicator to do an entire PF (non-tore down).

What kimd do you recommend? I've been using Mothers that squirts out of a bottle.

I just read the MSDS sheet for NXT wax. It has no silicone. It pours out of a bottle. I respect vid1900 super duper much so probably most others have silicone. NXT Tech wax specification sheet indicated none though. I don't know ...maybe it has it and it's hidden under some fancy techno name.

I tell you...this stuff makes you think my playfields are wet. Like you sprayed them with a water hose. I hanve been using them for years and would never change. I have no experience using on lacquer playfields though. I think it is strictly meant for clear coat. Like I said, no residue so super easy and the ball flies after for months.

Any opinions on this wax for pinball playfields. It was recommended to me by the previous owner of my TFLE.

http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Fine-Wood-Paste-00203/dp/B0000DIWIM/ref=sr_1_1

Ive been happy with the monthlyish wipe down with novus1 to get ball tracks on mY TFLE, and Met pro.

But recently got a TSPP and gave it a light coat of this wax and it seemed to go well. I used a round cotton covered sponge applicator to wax on, and a microfiber to wax off.

A paint sealer amd a wax are very different things

I probably over did it with the wax so I got a lot of wax dust. I'll know to use a lot less next time.

Nobody using Wildcat #125 anymore? Worked for me and the route guy I worked for.

You keep wiping till you get it all.. the towel isn't some super black hole.. even handling the towel will cause reside to fall out. Dust is part of wax removal.. it's just part of the process. You obviously use clean towels and change out frequently to minimize.. but your wrong to chastise someone because they found some dust afterwards. Simply flipping your towel around on the game can spread stuff caught in the towel.

I know waxing.. and even jobs like this require extra passes after buffing to get the last stragglers (some really old photos.. mainly because I don't use carnubas on the cars anymore... for this very reason.. they are more work to apply than modern polymers)
DCP01181.JPG
DCP01186.JPG
DCP01184.JPG

And for the people preaching about the latest car products like NXT/etc.. which are really polymers instead of pure waxes. This is what polymers can do for a car...
DCP01437.JPG

But I still wouldn't use them on my pins. They perform differently with different expectations. Waxing a playfield to me is about sacrificial heroes... you slick it up and let it take the wear instead of the PF underneath. Wax is soft - these polymers are not.

What kind of applicator are you guys using? Just the sponge one or a microfiber one?

I disagree, there are some waxes that do not turn to dust when removing them. After the very thin coat of wax hazes and a light wipe of a finger leaves a shiny PF underneath, I remove it with a cloth. With the wax I use, the removed residue sticks to the rag and does not leave dust.

There are lots of compounds that do lots of things (obviously). What product do you use?

I agree, the components of automotive waxes vary wildly. Lots of snake oil out there when it comes to automotive products... I know what your are saying and have used waxes in the past that "turn to dust". They typically are easier to remove than non-dusting waxes.

I use an old tin of Meguiars #26 Hi Tech Yellow Paste Wax. I store a round terrycloth applicator right inside the tin so I don't waste wax saturating a new applicator each time I wax.

http://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-Hi-Tech-Yellow-Paste-Wax/dp/B00079LW06/ref=sr_1_4

I don't use this on my cars any more, other products give much better results there but this works well for me on pins.

I just ordered these Klasse products:

http://www.amazon.com/Klasse-All-One-33-oz/dp/B0002LBKF6/
http://www.amazon.com/Klasse-High-Gloss-Sealant-Glaze/dp/B0002LBKG0/

I'm really looking forward to trying these on Congo and Dirty Harry, which both saw over 600 plays at the SFGE last June. Is there any reason to use Carnuba on playfields, instead of polymer sealants?

Exactly.

Flynnibus, you appear to know about waxing based on your above post, so I don't really understand why you don't accept this?

I know about detailing as well. I have more than 2 thousand posts at the Autogeek and Autopia forums. Detailing has been somewhat of a hobby for me since I was 20. I've even done color sanding a couple of times (not for the faint of heart).

Here is a link to the thread with pictures of the color sanding that I did to my friends 66 Chevy II SS:

http://www.autopia.org/forums/click-brag/156142-1966-chevy-ii-nova-ss.html

HHR-5.jpg

Yeah, the trade off seems to be the more 'wet' or softer the product remains on the surface, the more buffing it needs to get uniform (especially on dark cars). Some products leave a residue that really takes many clean cloths and good buffing to remove all trace of (presumably the solvents). And of course, the less drying time the wax has, the more it tends to come off as tacky film that collects in the cloth rather than dry cake-y stuff.

For waxes I guess I'm more of a purist. For the pastes I stuck with Car Beauty Pro Yellow Wax and Blitz One Grand (The Z photos above were after using Blitz.. and the polymer shot was after using Blackfire). Those are pastes that strive for pure wax - no blends, no polishes, no abrasives. The #26 you listed is a blended wax, and probably why it gives more of the 'film' application/removal experience. I can see why you gave your example... Blackfire paint protection is similar.. it hazes but doesn't really dry out... and becomes a PITA to buff uniform if you wait TOO long.

Yeah, my back surgeries pretty much put an end to my detail like a pro days with my cars

I'm trying to understand this. Wouldn't a harder and longer-wearing surface provide better protection?

Regarding waxing, a friend of mine has the Treasure Cove kit, can you use it by hand?
Or do you have to use a buffer?

Axl

You said if you're getting dust you're doing it wrong.. and even the guy you are quoting as agreeing with said "I know what your are saying and have used waxes in the past that "turn to dust". They typically are easier to remove than non-dusting waxes"

Dust doesn't mean you're doing it wrong.. its quite common with pure carnuba. The wax dries and crumbles into very particulate that can hang around after the dried wax is removed. *Especially* on anything that picks up a static charge. You minimize it by cycling out your clothes and balancing how long you let it haze. The drier it gets, the more particulate you usually end up with as it sticks together less when removed. You won't see it as much with the blends and doesn't really exist at all with the polymers.

Where people can do it wrong with pins is simply applying too much or sloppy.. just causing them more work. The ball doesn't even touch the playfield near the base of a post, no need to try to get so close when doing top-off jobs

I won't even touch the topic of frequency I often see preached on pinside. What is the pinball equivalent to trailer queens?

Simply put.. what they are striving for with a car isn't necessarily the same as for a pin.

First, there is the topic of how they bind/adhere. For games with modern clearcoat it shouldn't really be an issue given they are basically using auto-clear these days. But mylar, decals, bare paint... those are different applications.

Second, there is the issue of the carrier/suspension/delivery and any interactions that may have. This has seemed to be a non-issue for most people's experience. Again, if your game is modern cleared, less risk here.

Third, the issue of hardness/slickness. You don't actually want a perfectly smooth frictionless surface... you want the ball to have some bite so spin/etc comes into play. This is the same issue many people had with after market clearing for so many years. The games play different (and not necessarily better) when the surface loses all it's bite. These polymers actually strive to form slick, hardened barriers to protect what's underneath.

Lastly - how they are cleaned/removed. Removing these layered products when necessary can be more convoluted vs a straight forward wax. This dovetails into the issue of just how clean your game is before application. With car paint finishes, we strive to make the finish pristine and free of all contaminants before we apply sealers/protections. When you're just wiping down the game (especially without stripping the game) and putting on a top coat of protection.. you're not getting that same level of clean before you are applying your protection. The polymers work to create these hard seals designed to never leave. Wax is more your 'disposable hero' and there is less to worry about trapping stuff with it... wax will wear out and is stripped easier.

If you want to concoon your game.. clear it. Don't use a product intended to layer coats to provide environmental protection. My opinion... YMMV

I really like the way Johnsons paste wax, five coats on a clean playfield, it will be very slick. I use it on some cabinets also. It costs less than $5 and I think it offers some real protection.

You lose some effectiveness without the buffer. If you are just using the finer polishes, etc its not going to be a big deal.. just more work But the more abrassive stuff, you will want machine action for them to be effective and give uniform action.

Actually I gave 3 different scenarios for having dust left on the PF after waxing, and "doing it wrong" was only one of them.

One of the other scenarios was using "crappy" wax (to me any wax that has a lot of dusting is "crap").

That High Gloss Sealant glaze is *extremely* difficult to remove. There are older threads on the detailing forums discussing this issue. It's notorious for how difficult it is to remove. It's generally considered a great, long lasting protectant (I have some myself) but you will need to use care in removing it.

The Klasse All in One is a cleaner/sealant. If I remember correctly, it provides chemical cleaning (ie cleans without abrasives...or very mild abrasives). It supposedly leaves protection behind as well...but not much.

So, a question if you are not applying the wax by had, what kind of equipment do you use?
Just a hand drill?

Axl

I sure hope you didn't order those 33oz sizes! That's enough to do many many cars worth This kind of stuff is applied as a film. The Klasse stuff is acrylic intended to form it's own finish on top of stuff. In the very crudest sense.. think of it as liquid plastic.

We use similar products in toys to gum up joints to make them tighter by forming these very very thin layers to fill in gaps/slack in joints. (see 'future polish' in any toy/model forum).

IMHO - way to 'permanent' for the kind of finishes I want on my pins.

Pinball has the problem of small spaces... so your classic hand buffer is hard to use unless the game is stripped. I only bother with these hardcore situations when the game is stripped anyways, so I use my dual action orbital when I can and then switch to hand in the tight spots.

The drill attachment can be used but be careful when using more aggressive abrasive stuff because you are not getting any random action.. so you can burn spots or leave swirls. Most treasure cove customers I imagine are just using a drill attachment.

That Klasse High Gloss Sealant is as permanent as you can get.

I did get those sizes, but my main application will be our 10-year-old cars. Thanks for the detailed feedback on these products. If I do try them on a pin, it will be on a cheaper DMD game first, like Dirty Harry.

That is an awful lot of explanation. I can't say I agree but each is own. What is important to me is playing my pins but preserving them too. I do not want my clearcoated playfields to ever wear out. It freaks me out just thinking about it. I can't afford to repair multiple pin PF's and I sure do not like looking at or playing a pin that is worn through to the wood, yuck! So, Using NXT provides that deep shine and layer of protection from dirt and the ball traveling around. I still get weird spin on balls and the amount is fine for me. Anymore and I would assume that "bite" of the ball is actually like sandpaper on the PF (ball with dirt spinning on the surface), no thanks to that.

Like I said before I can only vouch for clear coated playfields. All but one of my pins are CC. Even the one that is mylar gets NXT and again, it looks like it is wet...the NXT is just amazing at what it does. Then you can play for so long...it seems like forever...really...I do mine pins once a year and I think they do not even need it, this stuff just seems to last so long. I use it on my Mustang GT Convert and my Corvette as well, makes then shine for a long time and look "wet". I am sticking with this stuff for any surface that is Clear coated, period.

I've used an ultrasonic cleaner for posts and other similar plastics (not with art on them since sometimes the ultra sonic will ruin them) with super good results. Like brand new posts!

I tried the treasure cove kit yesterday.
The cleaning products are just awsome, but the waxing part of
It didn't do much... Keep in mind that I am using it by hand, so
Maybe tats the problem?
Any hints would be helpful.

Axl

i use the mothers pure carnauba wax. works well.

I had seen P21s recommended by several folks here and on RGP. Did some research and it's mainly marketed for high end German cars and costs over $30 plus shipping. Many folks say S100 made by the same company is the exact same products, but marketed for motorcycles. Anyway, since I could find S100 locally and save the shipping costs, I bought some recently.
I do notice on my WOZ it seems to make the playfield look better including getting out very minor ball trails. I don't have heavy ball trails because I replace my pinballs often and wax before anything gets looking too bad, so I don't know how this product works on very dirty machines. It as all waxes has speed up the gameplay on all my pins. I don't yet know how long this product lasts versus Mother's, the Treasure Cove kit, Novus 2, and the other Carnauba waxes I've tried before.
If I learn more after more uses I write more later. I will say I find it easy to use and no problems with clean up or residue later such as white flaking later on.

*edit* Forum posted to wrong thread...dang multiple windows.

my 3 cents.....

IMO, anything that dries white shouldnt be used only in the sense of the residue to clean.
(Ill leave open the brand people prefer)

Cleaning Star Posts, etc, with any wax residue is just annoying...so there are great choices to avoid all this unneeded work.

Micro fiber cloth=YES

I keep a rechargeable can of dust off to blow off playfields all the time.
Helps tremendously, and I dont have to lug the compressor out.

I use to use the small portable compressor from Harbor Freight, but they kept dying...
really small and plug in nice though...maybe others have some thoughts.

I have a new product coming in, in a few weeks that Ill test, and if passes...sample some out,
that might help with play field cleanup.

Art

if your "wax" is "cleaning", you:

- haven't cleaned the pf well enough...
or
- are using the wrong product. you should not be using a "cleaning wax"...

also, fyi, novus 2 isn't a wax... it's a polish...

The cleaning (and polish) is what gives the PF (or cars paint) the glossy look. Wax mostly just protects the finish that you obtained by cleaning and polishing.

Light cloth with Novus 1, Novus 2 for tough spots, Novus 1 again, dry cloth, pure carnuba, buff. Done.

Nice and to the point...but what kind of cloth? microfiber?

Also, what do you do when you get to the edge where the mylar around the pop bumpers/drains start? Apply right up to the edge? Newbie here...

I use whatever soft cotton cloths I have--also a couple microfiber...I have a pile of "pinball rags" cut in to various sizes--and I spray the Novus 1 on the rag--not on the playfield. I would assume you would do right up to the edge of the mylar--I haven't dealt with mylar since I don't have it on my games. Others would probably speak to the mylar business better than me...I know you want a nice clean playfield and a coat of wax before you apply the mylar if it's intended to be removable....beyond that...

I blend my own wax...several coats until it produces a "wet" look across the entire playfield....of course removing everything first!

is this still the preferred wax?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002U1TVW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2

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No thats the cleaner polish of that brand
Theres a pic of the wax on previous oage

The preferred wax around here is 1 Grand Blitz Wax. Not on Amazon, but Pinball life carries it among other places. https://www.pinballlife.com/blitz-carnauba-paste-wax-12-ounce-jar.html

I've been using S100 with good results, it's available on Amazon and about half the price of Blitz Wax, https://www.amazon.com/S100-13700W-Carnauba-Paste-Wax/dp/B000GZQP08/ref=sr_1_4

this? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002U2V1O

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Yes, to the above.