Wish is sad because Godfather is such a good pin.Alittle more audio and code updates would knock it out of the park

Oh wait, yep... you said it....
Panzer..... Oh Paaaaaanzer .....

I at least personally knew 3 people who bought GF. I know of no one personally buy EJ

JJP can't blame Lawlor for this one.

Tell me, Jack...
Is it cold... in your little corner of the world?

I give up, which means for now giving up buying new JJP games. Prices are insane and IMO it's even more insane to pay these prices and then deal with a lack of meaningful code updates of all things.

JJP: Do not try to update your JJP game. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth.
Pinball owner: What truth?
JJP: There is no code update.
Pinball owner: There is no code update?
JJP: Then you'll see that it is not the game that updates, it is only yourself.

Pinside_forum_7828179_0 (resized).jpg

I excitedly played Godfather for the first time not long ago. What a lame game. So disappointed. There just doesn't look like much in it, ball paths be damned.

It's sad as it's code IMO that is holding many JJP's back from being extremely good and preventing them from going up in value. Too many generic modes, too many generic multiballs, too much stacking, etc.

If JJP wants to charge these prices and sell more games then they need to recommit to code updates, and by that I mean meaningful code updates that polish and expand gameplay. Their games are released more complete today but little to no customer feedback is implemented post release. It's as if the company has taken a stance of "If you don't like the way the code is oh well", well fine I just won't buy anymore of your games.

That was my impression when I first saw Jack speak at expo last year. I was almost speechless when he and team were literally talking shit about their competition in the same building. Really left a lasting impression on me. If Jack was/were to be humble about it, it would have changed the way I see this company as a whole.
The problem is that the two big companies are both exploiting the passion of Us pinheads, operators, and distros to solely make the mighty dollar, and throwing the passion of pinball (for pinball sake) to the side. Perhaps these smaller companies see the pattern and are (seeming to be) trying to ‘earn’ our keep while basically being one of us. Until THEY get big and do the same. Who knows. But I do know that transparency sells me, and I’m not buying this new model of being ‘above the law’. Just doesn’t feel right.

Pinball machines are luxury items nobody NEEDS.

Price them too high and people just won’t buy them, or wait for favorable secondary market pricing.

I do think an A+ theme like Matrix could overcome the price issue, but their theme choices have been questionable at best.

I don't think the reintroduction of the SE is a viable strategy. I think, just like before, nobody is really going to be interested in the stripped down version thats still priced like (or above) a Stern premium. You're absolutely right about their brand image though, they have to continue the perception that they're more of an upscale product than what Stern offers. JJP kicked off the price hikes and Stern followed suit. If JJP offered platinum for 10,500 and CE for 12 or 12500, They suddenly have a product that offers more than a Stern Premium at still a higher cost but not a ton, but obviously offers more value. CE at 12,500 is slightly cheaper than Stern's LE which suddenly makes JJP seem to hold a much higher value than what Stern can offer at that price. Stern would almost certainly have to follow suit and lower their prices, thus giving back JJP's Cadillac image.

Your Idea #2: JJP doesn't have BTTF and won't ever so thats off the table. They probably do have Harry stupid Potter and Matrix though, which is why I don't think they will lower their prices with those 2 themes in the wings, just stinks that they'll take a bath on Elton and Steve will have another poor sales game on his record. Similarly, Stern has Jaws coming soon, so even though distros are crying about not being able to sell Venoms at their high price, Stern also knows (or hopes) that Jaws sales will allow them to have another hit even at the current obscene pricing.

I agree that an SE is probably not a viable strategy if their other models continue to be over-priced. Why buy an SE if you know you can wait a few months and buy a Platinum for $2-3K off the original price? It's a suckers bet to buy one of their games NIB, especially with such a bad track record of supporting the software after the fact. I agree that JJP games are beautiful and have a more premium fit/finish but a large part of what I value in a new game is the code support and knowing that I'll get regular updates and more balanced rules over time. JJP needs to resolve this before I'd consider buying a new game from them at any price.

They’ve done SEs several times and nobody wants them.

So bringing them back is pinside’s big plan for JJP domination?

Say it with me folks…if Pinside ran JJP they’d be tits up in a month!

They may be tits up in a month anyway but let’s not hasten things.

Yes the SE's didn't sell well when the LE's were under $10K, now they want CE prices for LE's. Give the public and operators a choice below $10K. I guarantee Pinside would choose better themes than TS4, GF and EJ so maybe it's JJP heading for tits up on it's own.

Considering how much less is in them, and moving to a more effective(?) location, i would be surprised if their costs hasn´t gone down

Nobody buys a JJP game because they want something "stripped down." It doesn't matter if it's "under $10K."

They aren't buying Elton at 12K. So why would they buy a stripped down version at $9500? They wouldn't, they'd just buy a full-featured Stern Premium. We've been over this dozens of times.

People want JJP games at under $10K. They don't want a half-ass version at under $10K.

Can JJP afford to strip their pricing for their regular model back under $10K? Do they need to? The answers are probably coming soon.

Regardless, the "SE" thing ain't happening. Been there, done that, it didn't work, and that's when they were under $8K.

Heading to Houston arcade expo tomorrow, little bummed there won't be any EJ's there to play.

Depends on what you strip out of the game, if it's hotrails, aesthetics, and a few toys that don't add much then it's doable.

SEs never worked bc the price difference was negligible. With JJPs new pricing structure, if they made an SE that was 8k, it’s selling much more and wouldn’t be a bad idea.

JJP is a mess right now. Out of touch pricing, themes that are completely wasted (TS or GF) or don’t resonate with the hobby like EJ. I look at my Pirates and WoZ and shake my head thinking about what happened to this company and all the marketing video BS will not save them as anyone with half a brain has already realized.

Luckily they are bank rolled to stay afloat and their next two themes are big so let’s see how JJP handles them bc they have an opp to steer the ship into the right direction. I just hope they provide the market with more than just a theme but loaded as well.

Zach and the rest of the pinball media shills are working over time right now - help them out a little Jersey Jack bc it’s embarrassing.

The market dictates what they can ask.

JJP gets away with sort of B themes, mediocre code updates and minimal/no warranty and slot machine sounds. And still it sells, so yeah….

Toy story 4 sold out in seconds, Godfather and Elton John CE’s are all allocated to distributors.

The market is big enough! If you don’t like it, buy another pinball. there is so much choice for lower price!
I bought a Venom LE instead who gets the equal amount of hate

TS4 did not sell out in seconds. All CE's are always allocated to distributors that is not any sort of indicator of market performance of a title.

If I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, then maybe you're talking about the European market? You guys get a fraction of the games and are also not an indicator of overall market performance.

JJP, Stern, etc. they are all feeling the heat now. Sales way down.

GF is a great game imo. JJP’s best.

And they made $20 million per Abess jr

Made has to mean grossed.

JJP LE and CE model is a bit redundant and almost targeting the same customer.

Need a new Std model in the $8999 range and a truly limited LE at $11500-12k.

If you take away all that shit, is it really a JJP game?

Why not just get a cheaper stern pro?

Stern really does have the pro market all to itself. Will be interesting to see if they manage to fuck that up somehow (another price increase, more games like venom)

Elton spelled his name wrong.

It’s too bad BBH came along just as Stern was about to create pro, premium, LE editions. I think Avatar was the first? It woulda been kinda fun. “Do you have a Big Buck Hunter Pro pro or a Big Buck Hunter Pro premium?”

Either way, the point is Big Buck Hunter changed pinball forever. The End.

Elvis was years earlier and had an LE. LotR LE was also before Avatar LE.

Both ce and le of gf and ts are still available here in europe.

B.T.W. it borders on insanity that a TS Le (note LE!) here in sweden costs 7200$ more then a ripley alien.

Did Elvis have an LE? I didn’t know that. LOTR did have the re-issue LE version of LOTR in 2009, 6 years after LOTR launch. But the first game released with a choice of pro or LE seems to be Avatar, except for Elvis, I guess. After Avatar came Rolling Stones, Tron, Transformers and AC/DC. Stern was officially in the optional trim-level biz by 2010.

Elvis Gold edition

Don't the special Chrome edition of Monopoly if I recall

Adams Family Gold?

8 BALL DELUXE LE WAS THE OG

I believe each was identified by the name of a property on the board, I don't remember if there were multiples or not, that was a long time ago...

Ah, right. Platinum edition. 40 made. Earliest Stern special edition, probably...

There needs to be some Elton John representation at Houston Expo this weekend.

No duplicates. There's a record of 25/40 auctioned on ebay here:

https://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/monopoly_pinball_owners_list/monopoly_pinball_auctions.html

I bought it and 5 other people I know bought it

According to Kaneda no one is buying it and the game, along with all other NIB games, are doomed lol.

So tired of his negativity. He doesn’t even acknowledge that Elton John PE / LE comes with RadCals, a topper, and artblades despite JJP keeping the price the same. Yes the games are still expensive but give credit where credit is due instead of hammering home the same negative message over and over again.

Theme. Operators. Stern doesn't get every theme worth making.

It’s b/c regardless of these additions, NIB owners are going to take a 2-3k hit which is crazy. If those same people just waited a few months, they would save themselves that money.

Point is JJP is over priced right now and with a super weak theme that isn’t loaded and just reuses the same SR layout, it’s an absolute fail - and the market is showing the same. Game is DOA.

He actually has acknowledged those facts many times. Honestly I wonder what the final cost difference is between radcals and standard graphics. Like I'm sure the radcals have a little bit higher up front cost but I wonder if they make up for it during assembly by not having to do as much screwing around when they install them. That and surely they get a nice discount from Mirco who is basically a business partner with JJP vs an outsider vendor for the graphics. Its a nice upgrade either way, but I just wonder how much, if any, that upgrade is costing JJP's bottom line

Yeah who knows. With RadCals you still have to cut them, line them up, and install them properly just like regular decals. RadCal's more then likely cost much more then standard thin vinyl decals, one is clearly more higher end then the other. They look amazing in person too.

I’ve heard the reason that all models now have Radcals is Mirco (same as why he is supplying the cabs exclusively to JJP). They made years back a contract so that JJP has to buy all that/what Mirco can supply.

I don’t know the details but apparently JJP tried to have decals/radcals made locally. Mirco found out and sent a lawyer up their ass, and bumped up the price of the radcals as a reaction.

Don’t know if all or partially true, but sounds like his practise.

I tried once radcals and their print quality is just much lower than regular decals.
Sure the high gloss shine gives a lot of bling, but the colors are more off on the radcals.

Fairly easy to apply but I prefer normal decals, and I like the foil type of decals on Godzilla LE.

I am wondering as Rad Cals are no longer going to be produced for Hobbit is there any other options out there.

Interesting if true.

Love RadCal's on my Toy Story CE, looks far better IMO then any regular or foil decal I've seen (high print quality too). The only cabinet in my collection that looks similar is WOZ ECLE with it's direct print artwork.

That’s where JJP made their mistake. IMO.

With the “platinum edition” name (not the usual LE name) they had a chance to drop the price a little and not lose face with the TS and GF LE buyers.

Should have had standard cab decals, no topper, blades, etc (make them available as accessories) and banged them out at $9999.

Make the CE the one with everything that is shiny and glitters for that crowd. They’ll still buy the CE because “it’s the best!” in their minds.

My 10c.

rd

Think you are spot on RD. Seems crazy they didn't see that coming. I've been trying to warn em for months!

A $10k/$15k plan would make much more sense.

I'm not sure those options add up to much. I think including them helps justify the price. Not including them may save them only a few bucks and the price point is too low.