Still hoping for that. That's certainly more epic. As I have said in previous posts, The Who music is more Steve's style. Taking on the Who/Tommy/Pinball Wizard as a cross-over would be epic. That's in my opinion a more bankable theme. We shall see very soon. Either way I'm excited for a new pin and more excited to see what Steve brings to the pin-table..... I do believe it will be a world under glass and just may surprise many of us. Franchi has had a Captain Fantastic for 2 years for inspiration so really looking forward to the art on this one and lots of retro throwbacks I hope.

Best case right there. EJ is next best case. Worst case is the Tommy Broadway show.

It is 100% Elton John. You can read Elton John on the new teaser photo.

There’s s lot of price complaining, that is the end consumers problem (decrease in resale value). Also unsold stock is not their issue. If distributors nerd to buy 40 games minimum to stay dustributor then the same thing will happen as with the last game ->instant sell out. I think the LE quantity (you can better call in a Premium as with Stern), is more of a bonus.
JJP has now 3 CE games of 1000 pieces released in a year (if you count from first release), this is a major upgrade for them!

Let’s assume they have 5K margin on the CE (cost to manufacture 9K, 1K for distributors), that is 5K profit per one run of CE alone, this covers easily all their fixed costs for a year. The other 2 CE’s are bonus, they would survive on one a year easily!!!

Toy Story hasn’t been a bomb? Prices on used are holding well?

You could be the definition of delusional. Not sure what pinball market you’re talking about when they can’t give away a 15k CE for thousands less.

Are you Zach from Flip N Out by any chance? haha

Noone here knows what their fixed costs are. Their Mirco loan repayments, their rent, their staffing. Nor what their margins are. And you can bet that if distros are sitting on old stock, they aren't going to have the capital to buy more just to sit on it.

Yes, that is right. It is just an estimation.
But compared to their earlier volumes of CE's (200 and 500), and the amount of games they made previously yearly, they have made a big leap forward.
Sure we may see Toy Story CE's still for sales but they have for sure allocated all the 1000 CE's.

Indeed on the long run the first ones going to have a problem are distro's with the least amount of cash, because if you need to get a loan to finance the 40 games of inventory with the current interest rates, it is going to hurt quickly if they don't move within half a year.

Good morning..
One more day fellas....

So there could be 300-400 of them still sitting at distributors unsold. Good for JJP, but REALLY bad for distributors with them being available way below MSRP on the secondary market. Or maybe they didn't actually make all 1000? No way they sell all 1000 CEs for Godfather, so my guess is JJP were smart enough to cut off production and start up Elton John.

They should only build them based on demand. They can rerun later on if more are needed. Question..... If a distributor is allocated 10, do they have to buy all 10 from JJP to resell?

I for one am just going to wait for the reveal before I start complaining. People crapped all over Iron Maiden, but it’s still one of the most intense heart pounding games I’ve played to date. Sure the theme wasn’t everyone’s favorite, but man is it a fun playfield design with rewarding shots.

Couldn’t agree more!!!

Yeah that’s exactly the same as losing $4000 on a Toy Story.

Come on man.

Hopefully JJP announces code updates, substantial code updates, for Pirates and especially GNR at Expo. Same goes for Godfather and Toy Story. Why buy yet another JJP pin for $12k - $15k when they haven't polished titles 3 - 5 games back? Even Zach from SDTM mentioned how releasing more code is an "easy" way to sell more games in his Toy Story review. Come on JJP.

Sitting this one out no matter how good it looks as I've been here before. The same thing in regards to poor code support could happen with Elton John. A few small update to begin with, a game filled with generic multiballs, and then radio silence for years.

Meanwhile you can buy a Stern for less that receives regular updates. Just look at what Stern recently did with JP and now Rush. Same thing will happen with Godzilla which is rumored to have even more updates released. Established games continuing to receive meaningful updates. Stern gets it, great support = happier customers and more sales.

GNR LE's are now selling for close to $8k and it's primarily due to the lack of code updates for the game. Do you want to buy a new JJP and lose $3k - $4k within just a couple years?

Right? I think at CLE PIN Tilt was selling show games for 6300? Bond has been out almost a year…I don’t think a year old Stern selling for like 800 less than MSRP is really a sign of the end of days for Stern here…

You guys know when Elton John video is supposed to drop? Always excited to see a new pin drop, regardless of theme. Hope you fans get what you want.

Jjp hater !!!!!

Look how much their latest LE's are taking a hit on the secondary market. Stern raised prices too much just like JJP. I understand one sale doesn't mean all games are suddenly worth that price, just an observation.

At $13k new the latest Stern LE's are taking close to a $2k - $3k loss on the secondary market. That's similar to a JJP CE taking a $2k - $4k loss or a JJP LE taking a $2k - $3k loss. Overall a 25% hit on average between both companies.

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At least he doesn't say "grap"

"Grap" is the ultimate mystery word on pinside.

Nope Panzer is just a tool for the haters lol
By the way I do agree JJP needs to do more fucking code updates.I hope you’re listening Jack!Im tired of this issue being an issue!You fixed flippers and playfields now fix this!!!

20% drop in value by opening the box is actually close to being to back to "normal". The newer collectors are probably unaware but this was standard pre-pandemic. This is why buying NIB was a rare thing. It meant you were paying a price for the "honor" of opening the box.

What blows my mind is the fact that some actually believe that it's normal to buy something new, use it, and then expect all your money back (or even a profit) when you sell it. Rude awakening for some of the noobs. Welcome to reality.

I was about to make this exact point. Insert cargument here....

She is. 100%. I’m just amazed at him many of the themes she wants are dropping left and right. JAWS is on her radar as well.

The endless debate on "value". I get it, but I tell you, I don't obsess over it. I have a 911 I drive on weekends. Not once have I gone to a car valuation website and checked what it was worth. I get it, but in this hobby, it is all anyone seems to talk about. My collection is built by me, for me and what each machine means to me, in its looks, its layout, its code, every one of them, completely different. I move some on, but not many. Just moved Led Zeppelin Premium and Mando Premium out. Nothing against them, just not fun, TO ME. This is the most subjective hobby with far different constituents than any other hobby I can think of. The collectors, the collectors/players, the tournament players and the Wana be tournament players (raising hand), the flippers, the restorers and combinations of each. Back to this thread, my JJP's are different, I have a GNR LE, a TS CE and a GF CE and will be ordering an EJ, probably a CE but want to see what the LE brings to the table. They are all such a change of pace from other manufacturers. I do not see me ever moving them on, but again, that is my subjective opinion. Guess my meandering point is yes, they are extraordinarily expensive toys, about the most discretionary purchase imaginable, but we love it don't we? Anyway, my 2 cents.

12EST.

2-3k isn’t 25% of 13k, but if you’re only going to look at Stern LEs as an example then you’re probably doing yourself a disservice since most Stern buyers aren’t spending 13K on a new game. The point of entry for a new JJP is 12K MSRP and 7K for a new Stern. When new Stern pros are selling for 5300 you might have a point.

I’m just glad someone had the courage and insight to compare pinball machines to cars.

Interesting. I don’t believe you have made this point before.

Alot of people are buying pinball machines for the wrong reason, these are toys not stocks.

And no I would never spend 15000 on a elton john themed pinball machine, a bttf yes

I feel like a lot of folks have used "investment" all too often as the argument to get approval from the wife to buy pins.

I have nothing against Elton John, but the comment above is correct. It's not a popular theme for Pinsiders, as shown on The Ultimate Pinball Theme Survey:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-ultimate-pinball-theme-survey-2023

Only 5 people out of 308 responding chose Elton John as a theme they would be excited about. That doesn't bode well for JJP.

I would like to state for the record that I've never seen an episode of Elvira, yet I have and love the game. It's out on a temporary trade for Monster Bash, full of monster movie references I've never seen. It's also a great game. So long as a theme and art is not actively offensive (non-campy horror for me) a game is a possibility if its good enough.

I've already written my piece but the success or failure of this game will come down to code.

Shhhh Gary is listening

I find it hard to believe that people are still doing this.

And JJP had a huge success with GNR. Fans want rock pins, not adult contemporary or whatever you classify Elton John music as. Might as well be more relevant and go with Taylor Swift if it's just about who can sell out a large venue. Makes no sense especially for Steve Ritchie with his catalogue of past games.

Got a buddy who is now renting a storage space to store his NIB JP30th, Godfather CE, Venom LE, whatever Elvira drops tomorrow as "pinvestments" and "potential trade bait" when something pops up. I have advised that I don't think this is a great "pinvestment".

This is a valid point for used pins…but we aren’t just seeing used pins lose value. There are a ton of deposits and even direct from distributor pins being sold significantly below MSRP. For example, right now you can get 1500 in accessories for free when you buy godfather from some distributors. Stern LE pricing and JJP overall pricing is like 1500-2K too high based on the market. JJP really needs to adjust pricing IMO, even if they have to take out the topper to do it (to be in parity with stern). Lebowski is pretty much the only NIB pin that can sustain that pricing and likely because of its rarity and insane build time.

My buddy is a jjp dealer. They made home take $200k worth of guns and roses le machines to become a dealer. Still sitting on some of them. Prob new dealers coming in have to take ts4 les

Stern and jjp expect you to take your allotment. You can take less but then they get mad at you and can do things such as lower allocation.

I somewhat agree, but there are so many great game out there to choose from and so little space that, for me, it doesn't make sense to pay these prices for a game with a theme I dislike. I think about it like there are 3 tiers to consider.

1. A theme I love - I may buy the game without even playing one, because I will want to experience it for myself in a home setting, for better or worse.

2. A theme I think is decent, but I don't have much personal connection with - I may buy the game if I play it a lot and like it, or maybe even if enough people who's opinions I value recommend it to me.

3. A theme I dislike - I won't buy the game no matter how good the gameplay is or how popular the game is with my friends. I'll just drop money into the game on location instead.

You are a good friend.
He is better off long term selling them and investing in real investment vehicles for a long term capital appreciation.

Did somebody say vehicles?!?!

You see...investing in pinball machines is kinda like buying a Lotus...

Never seen a cargument here before.

dammit got me - figure of speech
Nevermind, just hide a Rocketman CE in the storage locker too.

Wth is grap? Reminds me of "gnap" when the smurfs turned purple my biting each other on the ass

Did someone say Lotus? Saw this the other day.... Permanent for sale sign.

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Guessing real estate

First off, love Steve Ritchie and I'm super excited that he's got a new game coming out.

Secondly, Elton John, are you fucking kidding me? Ugh. I guess the best you can say is at least it's a theme that won't offend anybody.

But gosh it sure would be nice to have a music theme pin based on an artist that was popular in this century...

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JJP could have got the license for the Elton John / Dua Lipa "Cold Heart" song. That would actually be one way to put a newer artist and modern song in a pinball machine.

I'm fine not recognizing this gal. Though EJ at his grand old age might look a bit off himself!