(Topic ID: 340119)

Capersville Free Ball Gate?

By bcarter1234

11 months ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by DK
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Ball gate (resized).png
Free Ball Gate open (resized).jpg
Free Ball Gate closed (resized).jpg
Deep 4 Alley Gate (resized).jpg
#1 11 months ago

I'm trying to revive a Capersville. One of the problems the game had was a burned coil on the Free Ball Gate as a result of an apparent short on the EOS switch.

This question may answer itself once the game is working but I'm curious about the Free Ball Gate.

Here is the wording from the Capersville rules explanation found several places online.
"The Deep 4 Caper Gate is located on the upper-right side middle of the playfield. It is open when there is no captive ball. It closes when there is a captive ball or when a ball enters the Deep 4 Alley.
The Free Ball Gate is located on the right side middle of the playfield in line with the Plunger Lane. It is closed to the Deep 4 Alley and opened to the Plunger Lane when a pinball is in the Deep 4 Alley. It is opened to the Deep 4 Alley and closed to the Plunger Lane when the Deep 4 Caper Gate is opened. The function of this gate is to prevent a ball from entering the Deep 4 Alley if another ball is already present there."

1) I don't understand how a ball could enter the Deep 4 Alley if another ball is already present there as the Deep 4 Caper Gate would be closed at that point.

2) If a ball does enter, presumably past the closed Deep 4 Caper Gate, does the Free Ball Gate send it back into the plunger lane?

I wondered if there is some type of bonus that would open both gates allowing a ball to be sent back into the plunger lane without going through the four steps of the Deep 4 Alley.

Thanks for reading.

Take care,
Brent

#2 11 months ago

I don’t have an answer to that question.

Just reading that blows my mind for an EM. That’s freaking crazy!

Someone please sell me a Capersville!

#3 11 months ago
Quoted from Garrett:

I don’t have an answer to that question.
Just reading that blows my mind for an EM. That’s freaking crazy!
Someone please sell me a Capersville!

Capersville and the other Ballys from that era have a lot of really interesting features that you wouldn't think possible for an EM, 2 or 3 ball multiball and variable scoring on some features are some of them. It is amazing what they were able to do with just a group of switches. It is also mildly entertaining to have the exact same sort of trough issues that you have on modern games with something from the 60s

To answer the question, the game only lets you have one ball in the free ball lane, the gate closes after a ball enters. It drops into the shooter lane after you hit something (sorry, I forget what it is) 4 times. The upper gate opens again after the ball drops into the shooter lane. The mechanism that holds the ball has 4 steps and every time you hit the whatever it is, it drops down a step. Works just like Flight 2000's does.

#4 11 months ago

Looking at the schematic the Captive Ball relay is an interlock relay that trips when the ball rolls over the top/entry switch in the alley, and latches or resets when the ball rolls over the bottom/exit switch on the way to the shooter lane. The Captive Ball relay controls the Free Ball Gate relay which drives the gate, and the light that tells you when the gate is open. I believe that a ball will stay in the alley across games too, to entice the player to play again, and to simplify the circuit.

Beware that if you get a ball into the alley, then manually remove it the gate might not open again because the Captive Ball interlock relay will stay tripped until the exit switch closes. I think Four Million BC has the same behavior.

/Mark

#5 11 months ago

Since my playfield is still upside down on horses in the dining room I've only played Capersville on a full size virtual cabinet but I sure do love it in that format. It is a fun game and my wife takes it personal if I manage to grab a captive ball she has left behind, a rare occurrence indeed.

MarkG,

I'm going to study the schematic some more this evening, as a rookie I could be missing a lot. Here is what confuses me. There are two gates located by the Deep 4 Alley.

The first, the Deep 4 Caper Gate, is a horizontal wire that forms the gate. Lowered is closed, raised is open. It is located on the upper-right side middle of the playfield. It is open when there is no captive ball and will allow a ball to enter the Deep 4 Alley. It closes when there is a captive ball or when a ball enters the Deep 4 Alley. Shown here in its open (raised) position.
Deep 4 Alley Gate (resized).jpgDeep 4 Alley Gate (resized).jpg

The second, the Free Ball Gate, is a metal plate on a vertical shaft. It is located on the right side middle of the playfield in line with the Plunger Lane. It is closed to the Deep 4 Alley and opened to the Plunger Lane when a pinball is in the Deep 4 Alley. It is opened to the Deep 4 Alley and closed to the Plunger Lane when the Deep 4 Caper Gate is opened.
Closed to Deep 4 Alley open to plunger lane.
Free Ball Gate closed (resized).jpgFree Ball Gate closed (resized).jpg
Open to Deep 4 Alley closed to plunger lane.
Free Ball Gate open (resized).jpgFree Ball Gate open (resized).jpg

It is the purpose of the second gate I don't understand. If the Deep 4 Caper Gate is closed no ball should be able to get to the Deep 4 Alley where the Free Ball Gate would send the ball back to the plunger lane. This is why I wondered if there is a condition, perhaps from a bonus, in which the Deep 4 Caper Gate could be open to allow a ball to enter the Deep 4 Alley and go directly back into the plunger lane without going through the 4 stops on the way down the Deep 4 Alley.

Perhaps the Free Ball Gate is just a redundancy in case a ball does get past the closed Deep 4 Caper Gate. It would not allow a 2nd ball to mess up the logic of the table.

My fixation with the Free Ball Gate may have something to do with the fact that its solenoid was the one that burned the side of the cabinet.

Take care,
Brent

#6 11 months ago

I think the Free Ball gate can divert a ball into the shooter lane for a free ball before it enters the right alley. So with the upper gate open the ball can either drop into the alley or into the shooter lane based on what else is going on in the game. I don't think it can do its thing if there is a ball in the alley.

#7 11 months ago

MarkG,

I suspect you are correct. I don't know what condition will lead to the Deep 4 Alley and Free Ball gates both being open but my guess is some game condition leads to that combination. Perhaps once the table is going I'll be able to figure out how that could happen.

Take care,
Brent

#8 11 months ago
Quoted from bcarter1234:

MarkG,
I suspect you are correct. I don't know what condition will lead to the Deep 4 Alley and Free Ball gates both being open but my guess is some game condition leads to that combination. Perhaps once the table is going I'll be able to figure out how that could happen.
Take care,
Brent

Check out what someone stated in the review section. He tries to give an explanation and again, blew my mind.

https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/capersville/ratings

#9 11 months ago

Just a quick update. IT LIVES!

Yesterday I was able to put the playfield in and turn the machine on. It lit up, kicked the balls into the trough and released a ball into the shooter lane. Oh, and then it released a second ball into the shooter lane. No worries, there is a document on IPBD explaining how to set up and start the table. It actually has a section describing what to do in this specific scenario. I restarted the machine and pushed the rollover down as directed. When I started a new game only one ball was released. Most features worked without issue, I was so stoked!

What to do but show my wife the dead table we bought is working. I wanted to put the lockdown bar on before she tried it so I opened the coin door, installed the bar (still no glass) and proudly pressed the start button. The game started, kicked one ball into the trough and just for spite sat there with the score motor cycling. What could possibly be wrong? All I had done was add the lockdown bar. She was duly impressed and kindly returned to the house so I could mope in private or more likely so she could laugh in private.

A short investigation revealed the problem. Someone had removed the solenoid that kicks the balls into the trough and when they put it back the terminals and wires were facing down. When the coin door was opened the 2nd coin mechanism would hit the wires and had broken the solder joint at the terminal. Raise the playfield re-solder the joint and test it out. I took advantage of the opportunity to clean the solenoid and plunger while I was at it.

This time we were able to play a few games. I'm really going to enjoy this table.

I have a laundry list of things to do before starting on the appearance of the table.
1) Clean or replace the solenoid on the Code Zapper Kicker as it struggles to push the ball back out of the top of the lane.
2) Replace all the rubbers.
3) The zipper flippers may just need use or a small adjustment as it seemed like one of the thumper bumpers caused them to re-open on one or two occasions.
4) The right saucer does not capture a ball even when it should. It kicks the ball back out.
5) Does it work for more than one player?
6) Check and replace lights.
7) Install all new fuse holders.
8) Rebuild the thumper bumpers.

I'm sure I'll think of others and likely be looking for guidance especially with the mutlplayer aspect of the game.

Thanks for reading.

Brent

1 month later
#10 9 months ago

No surprise the designers of the game were smarter than me. If you read any of the thread above you know that I thought one of two things with regard to the free ball gate.
1) That is was redundant as it couldn't be reached since the wire gate would be closed any time it was closed to the Deep 4 Alley.
or
2) That there was some game state that would leave the wire gate open and allow the free ball gate to return a ball directly to the shooter lane without going through the 4 steps of the Deep Four Alley.

I was wrong on the first count and wrong with regard to intent on the second. During a game today two balls entered the Deep Four Alley in close succession while in multiball. Since the first one had not tripped the wire rollover at the top of the alley yet the wire gate remained open long enough for the second ball to enter.

Once the first ball hit the wire rollover the free ball gate swung in and diverted the second ball back to the shooter lane. Any subsequent logic issues were averted.

Those guys were pretty sharp.

Take care,
Brent

2 months later
#11 6 months ago

Does anyone know where I can purchase a replacement ball gate? Pic shown below. Thanks for any help!

Ball gate (resized).pngBall gate (resized).png
#12 6 months ago
Quoted from DK:

Does anyone know where I can purchase a replacement ball gate? Pic shown below. Thanks for any help![quoted image]

Found it locally! Yay!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 12.00

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