Ah god. Nobody following this thread should expect a fast pinball machine/whitewood. but i will listen to suggestions and whatever. I'm going to keep all the shitposting and whatever on John's thread though.
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Won't be able to start work on it until possibly monday because of needing to have the layout printed out and the wood. but for to day i suppose i could find the wood. My assumption is it's suppose to be 1/2th thickness based on what other people said on john's post.
Quoted from TreyBo69:1/2” maple or Baltic birch. The more plys the better. A 5 ply 4x8 sheet is about $100 and you can get 4 playfields and support rails from the one sheet.
5/8th thickness 4x8? I'll see what i have kicking around in the garage. Tons of sheets of whatever you could imagine in there.
Quoted from Mbecker:1/2” thick not 5/8. Typically final playfields are slightly over 1/2” and sanded down to 1/2” after inserts are installed. For a whitewood, you can probably get away with 5/8 but it puts the mechs are 1/8” lower into the playfield so that could be an issue for some mechs that mount thru it, like the pops.
Will do. Thank you Mbecker-
Quoted from benheck:I have a CNC machine in my garage. I'd be happy to cut the WW if someone wants to sponsor shipping it from South Canada (Wisconsin) to Nova Scotia.
That would be wicked and insanely helpful. but if it costs way too much to do that please don't waste money. Nobody should ever go out of their way and spend some crazy amount of money for a whitewood.
Quoted from roffels:Iceman dropped 10k on one, I'm sure this will cost far less.
1000%.
Quoted from TKDalumni:Pic of said 3-spinner design?
I'll just post it here since it's relevant to be in this post aswell.
7c4a57cfc20abecb459045cbdb7dd7e5d8092aa2-1 (resized).pngQuoted from WaddleJrJr:If you haven't seen it yet thepinballroom has a series on Youtube documenting his homebrew build, that could be something to check out if you want to get familiar with things to do - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4ICKQRfLA2aB8D8Jqw-e70Bfc8erUNp7
He also links to some google docs in his video descriptions that show files he's used as well as a spreadsheet that tracks everything he's purchased and the prices, that can help get a feel for the price and what all you might need to buy.
Wicked i'll give that some attention to later on tonight. Having some company over to the house tonight and tomorrow will be busy as all hell.
Quoted from benheck:I'd do it for zero dollars if someone provided the wood and shipping.
that would be seriously wicked and insanely appreciated. Hopefully something is figured out. Thank you very much for being gracious about it!
Quoted from benheck:Do you have the DXF file?
Did Jon do this in Solid works or Autocad? The base files would be even better.
Probably 2 hours to prep and about 1 to cut it, double sided. I could do it later this week when weather warms up (garage isn't heated yet... Or not)
I'm not quite sure. John posted a PDF file which is supposedly can be converted into the DWG or CAD file. but i don't really know anything about CAD files or DWG or any of that stuff. Treybo said he had a CAD file on his office computer but won't be able to get to it until Tuesday? Here's his exact PDF file that he posted if it's any use to you.
7c4a57cfc20abecb459045cbdb7dd7e5d8092aa2.pdfQuoted from benheck:That PDF file is flat, I can't pick out individual components.
I'll try contacting John then. if not Treybo said he had one... I'm sorry for the inconvenience!
Quoted from benheck:Contact Jon Norris. He can provide the best files. GWJ doesn't know a DXF from an MP3
Sure thing. Jon norris would be this fella here? https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/pinballguru I'm not really acquainted with him. just know his name.
Quoted from Daditude:That's him
Awesome. I'll send him a message then and see what he says. But it is possible that he may not get back to me because of christmas.
Quoted from Daditude:So wait a minute...are you asserting that everyone doesn't spend their entire Christmas Eve and Christmas day on pinside.com??????
Well i spend all my time on here because i'm a dork and i have absolutely no life outside of here. But perhaps some of the other folks would rather venture off into something else for christmas. like browsing through E621, Going to the bar and getting arrested on the way back. or watching https://www.youtube.com/@BenHeckHacks
Quoted from TreyBo69:I never had the original file. I just imported the PDF into AutoCAD and it redrew it as best it could.
I had kind of figured that was the case which is why i still mentioned it. but i contacted Jon Norris and perhap's i'll hear from him over the next few days. Merry Christmas everyone!
Quoted from dr_nybble:Shouldn’t this still be in GWJ’s possession on a USB stick?
Or on his Gmail on the assumption he hasn't lost his password again. I sent him a message but didn't hear back. I'll give him a ring though.
He's on his way home so. He'll take a look and send it to my Gmail after he's gotten off the bus n whatever
Quoted from roffels:I'm just excited to see the original design come to fruition. It's too bad there's no-one making a documentary about the build of these two games.
I will be sure to take lots of pictures. and hey since there is internet at the workshop perhaps i'll even hook up a webcam or something. Don't hold me to the latter though.
Quoted from benheck:You're also going to need to get metal guides cut. I've used this service before: https://sendcutsend.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA45qdBhD-ARIsAOHbVdFc0iX4po0Q9bWKBwrIjdQAVXGKMNyqmvPbVuaZZkP43HfSlVMcr-kaAoOuEALw_wcB
Whole game's worth shouldn't exceed $150. You should see if Norris would help, he might be able to export flat-pattern metal from his software.
For the PF we need a discreet DXF so it can be separated out into top and bottom CNC.
Well John sent me a DWG, SVG, and a XLSX file. Send me a message with your gmail and i'll redirect the files to you. or i could just upload them on some file hosting website. whichever you prefer.
Quoted from benheck:Checked my records. The ball guides for (never-ending CGC game) was $90!
My brother in law is a mechanic. He has all that fancy metal working tools specifically for stuff like this so I’ll see if he can produce them. If he can’t ill for sure go that route.
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:Well, here *I* am browsing Pinside on Christmas Eve!
....but maybe I'll pay that site a quick visit just to say that I did. I was not expecting to see THAT referenced on here!
But srsly though, I can't wait to see what you come up with for this build. This is another one of those projects I probably would have attempted myself for the meme value if I wasn't already busy with a bunch of other stuff.
E621 themed pinball machine.
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:Not gonna lie, that would be hilarious.
The bottom of the pinball machine where the ball drops will be vore themed. Goes in the front and out the back.
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:HAH!
Spell K-N-O-T to light lock!
Every player is assigned a random avatar next to their score. Cropped yiff obviously.
(For those who don't know what we're talking about.... maybe don't look it up? For your own sanity?)
Cropped? Cropping stuff is for pussies.
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:I was thinking for the meme value, but sure, take it all the way.
...Those VHS tapes are nothing compared to this plan!
Well truthfully i think the only people who would understand it here would be me and you. And maybe the other guy who doesn't want to say anything because he doesn't want to be outed.
Quoted from Haymaker:Lol or any vore, unless it's Garfeild related, then anything goes
g19psqk8lvh11 (resized).jpgI sure hope i haven't alienated anyone from the thread LOL let's go back to chatting about the pinball and the godsend that is ben heck.
Merry Christmas everyone! Thank you for all your help and your best wishes! And yeah what Ben Heck is doing is way more then i deserve and i'm really thankful for that. I'm going to go spend a little time with my family but if anyone has any questions or concerns i'll answer them throughout the day.
Quoted from gjm:Avi, a piece of advice:
Good luck with the build, keep timelines real and enjoy the process.
Well i'm going to 'try' to keep it as cheap as humanly possible but i will keep track of the donations. I want to try to keep it underneath $1000 which maybe is alot for a whitewood. or maybe it isn't. but it's a simple design so it can't cost THAT much.
Quoted from FrankJ:My suggestion is to find a more user friendly theme. Maybe reach out to Jon Norris to see what he planned. Another build like this turned into Oh Nelly Big Juicy Melons for Stern.
After all, it is a Jon Norris design, and you have one hell of a team lining up behind you.
I mean again i'm open to any suggestions for themes and whatever. I personally was considering something to do with Osama Tezuka's Astro boy (the original version) but i'm not sure if i'd need a license for that or what. figured i'd figure that out as the time goes. but i'm still open to ideas. since it's a community effort everyone should be able to suggest and vote on that, It's probably the least i could do.
Quoted from benheck:Avi something you can get in the interim is a bunch of 6-32 T-nuts, I assume Canada sells imperial stuff?
I think I have some extras wood rails too, I can try and ship those as a big flat pack.
These things? they're expensive but depending on how many i would need they are possible to get. I'm not sure if locally though is the one issue.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from vdojaq:Ebay and amazon are your friends
noted. If you get me a rough estimate about how many i need. i'll look into ordering them!
Quoted from benheck:Avi the PDF will tell you how many you need. Jon put one under almost every post. It's a circle with 3 "teeth" along the edges.
Surely you've seen these under B/W games? There will be a slight pocket in the wood that the t-nut countersinks into, then you bash it with a hammer (so obviously this is step 1)
Will look at the PDF. Thank you. and honestly no i don't believe I've ever seen them before. but that could be on account to me not actually looking for them. I might be able to purchase them locally at a place called richelieu and if not then i'll order them on amazon. I'll be back in a bit i have to go out on a service call for a pinball machine
Quoted from TreyBo69:As someone who started building off the original PDF, it does need some tweaks and I wouldn’t read too much into certain pilot spots for certain mechs. Also keep in mind Avi will probably use DE style pops and not WMS style jets. Different cut for the CNC.
Whatever is on the whitewood i'll make it work. I honestly do not know the different between them in the slightest.
I counted 42 of those t-nuts but i'll order a bunch of extra's just in case. If they have the right sized ones in stock at richelieu i'll be able to get them discounted due to the business my father works with, thank god. And seriously. Thank all of you for putting the work that you guys are doing into it. I can't fathom why but it's really really awesome to be welcomed into the community like this.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Again I did not ask for the thread to be closed or did I complain to anyone. Guess I will continue on or not. Avi can update people here that are curious, or not. Thanks Aaron for coming clean, no hard feelings!
Oh geez, I just came back to see the thread was closed. I'm sorry john.
Quoted from Pinbub:It's no surprise with people basically telling each other openly to F off!
I wish you the best on the project but please spare us from pix of expired meat products!
I cannot control John nor do i intend to gatekeep him from that. but for me it'll be business as usual. I probably won't post any musical or 'attempted' humorous videos anymore since the consensus was the last one wasn't funny. and i do actually feel shitty for it now despite John not really giving two hoots. But do expect pictures and questions. a lot of dumb questions.
Quoted from Pbpins:I think before this build starts, it should be discussed with the operator as he seemed to have issues with Avi. Having GWJ just say it’s ok because it will be done in his space is not good enough since John does not own the building! We know John retired from his regular job but in effect he is still working but for the operator now to earn his work space and the operator is his boss so he’s got to do what the guy wants or risk being booted out if I read the bread crumbs right.
Op don’t care. Already was talking to him about it but I’ll talk to him again after the holidays to make sure. For now things are just going as discussed. *shrugs*
Quoted from Aurich:Recoup how?
It’s a classic sunk cost fallacy. Ice cut his losses and walked, which is the smartest thing anyone in this whole mess has done.
Ben’s CNCing a white wood out spite, which I respect, but nobody pushing Avi down a money and time pit he has no understanding of are actually doing him any favors.
I have to agree with Aurich on this one. not being pressured to finish it within a specific timeframe is a huge load off my shoulder. I mean i wasn't even the one dealing with Ice at all and i was still stressed the hell out over his whitewood... And despite our curfuffle i'd still like to see John build and have it flipping. regardless of any dumb deadline. deadlines aren't my business.
Also a bunch of unnamed people said dealing with Ice is one of the worst decisions you can make. so i'm gonna take that advice and hide behind it.
Quoted from pookycade:Avi if a GoFundMe is not your style then can we perhaps do something like wedding gift registry. That is there is a list of parts that are needed and we buy that part on your behalf ? The bottom line is if you have $60 to your name as you said it’s gonna be hard to buy all the parts for this yourself. All of us that have followed this along are willing to help out. We made the same offer to John but he was having none of it. I’m willing to help out as I was before John found his mini whale and went with that. Even with less skill than John, I see more perseverance here and thus believe the money would be put to good use. I can only speak personally but I would expect ZERO in return for that other than seeing you at least try to bring this to life.
I would not mind this idea particularly. Instead of giving me money to buy parts. it's easier just to buy said parts. that way everyone is on the same page with what it is going to be going onto the playfield. and i don't have to worry about handling anyone's money, but seriously spend within reason.
I'll let you guys pick before i respond back to Jon Norris. Essentially what he said in his reply to me is that he gives me permission to use his 3 spinner design if i choose to. but that Treybo is also creating a interpretation of it. I do not know the details on that but he's given me two options.
Option one is he'll send me the files to the 3 spinner design that we're going with now. And things will just continue on as they are..
Option two is, He'll send me a different design to use. that way you'll have a new one that hasn't been seen yet. you'll have the one John is making. and the one Treybo is messing around with.
The catch is I'm still only allowed to produce 1 playfield with either option i choose because Jon Norris is trying sell the design to a company. which i'm totally fine he put the work into designing them. it's only fair.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Please don’t stop me from you building it. I’m not doing the original designer either.
I'm just giving the boys a choice. is a community effort so it should be a community decision. We have till thursday till Ben Heck can CNC the wood (Thank you again) if the boys want to see something new and fresh for a newbie, that's all good. or if they want to stick with what they have. that's wicked too.
Quoted from vdojaq:I think everyone would like to see the 3 spinner playfield be done as designed. I don't think we should drag another free design out of John Norris. He was gracious enough to GIVE it to someone who decided to bastardize it and not care one bit.
All good. i'll just wait an hour. give everyone a chance to see the post and if they miss out on it, it's all good.
Quoted from mbwalker:If Avi is going to try to build this, then we need to think about future tasks. Anyone able help with coding? No need to loadup Avi with that task. I guess Proc or Fast is still an unknown?
Treybo offered to donate to the cause with a.... Cobrapin? i think is what he said it was to keep costs down and keep it simple. I'm not holding him to it same as anyone else. if you're uncomftorable at any point with the build you're more then welcome to just watch.
Quoted from Aurich:So you have no money, and no experience, and you're going to spend potentially the next 2+ years of your life working on a project that will rely on a steady stream of donations to be able to progress at every step of the way, and you don't actually understand how to do any of the steps yet.
All so if you actually manage to finish you won't even own the design that all that effort went into.
I don't believe you, or anyone egging you on, actually understands how much work is involved in making a complete pinball, and how many specialized skills it takes. And how much it costs. If you don't hire out a single aspect, and don't value your own time at all, expect to still spend $6-10k USD.
Scott Danesi sold a bunch of his pins to finance Total Nuclear Annihilation. And he can program, do CAD, and electrical and mechanical engineering, wrote all his own music and did all the sound design so he didn't have to pay anyone for those things. It still took him two years to have the game people bought and he said he practically killed himself to do it.
Seriously think about if this is what you want to embark on, and something you want to feel you have to commit to as people potentially send you thousands and thousands of dollars, either in cash outright or parts they expect you to use.
All so you can make a game that's someone else's design that they intend to sell.
----Please read my lastest post below----
I would have money if the operator didn't lie about my game not being for sale. but no hard feelings. This venture is souly for a flipping whitewood...... Cabinet. artwork. all that stuff will be talked about after the playfield itself is flipping and to a point that everyone thinks is reasonable.. The soul purpose for the moment is to just make a playfield that works. I don't think that'll take an entire year to do. I could be wrong but i will work on it faithfully. even if i have to bring all that stuff back into my bedroom and work on it there. and Beech is right. I don't have friends. i don't drink.. I'm not going to kill myself working on it. Everyone Agree's that there is no deadline. and if it seriously 100% gets to a point where I'm not comfortable in my ability. i'll surrender the project and send it to someone else that will finish it. but that's a lost cause last case scenario type situation.
----Please read my lastest post below----
i'm not looking to start a pinball business and bring in contracts and get licenses. I'm just a dumb kid who like's pinball and has repaired a few things here and there. It was john's idea. I was interested in cracking a shot at it. Everyone else seemed interested in letting me crack a shot at it. that's the way i look at it. this play-field will go as far as the people who help it go far. I admit it i don't know everything under the sun.
I'm not forcing anyone to partake. I'm not sure what else to say. Everyone who is involved or is thinking about being involved should talk it over realistically with eachother. and if by wensday everyone agree's this is a bad idea. i'll step down and have the thread deleted before any money is spent on it. But i am going to talk it over with a few people.
Here's the deal folks. I talked it over with a bunch of people and truthfully i've been second guessing the entire ordeal for awhile now but especially since John's post was locked and spotlight was given to me. I feel as though the main drive for everyone originally starting this project was based on ill-intentions because of the GWJ Iceman thread which I'm not going to comment on. the appeal of having the newbie apprentice build something faster then John was too sexy not to contemplate. And i would've been more then happy to give it my serious dedication. But now that John's post is locked and all the attention has been spotlighted onto me. I feel as though people are starting to see past the sexiness of what we all wanted accomplished and we're starting to slow down now and actually say. "Hey is this really a good idea to sponsor?" We're all friends here and I'm happy to have met some of the greatest minds on pinside and to be welcomed in such a unreal way. but none of you know me. none of you have seen me work, you have no idea of my capabilities and i don't feel comfortable or great with that.
Even i was trying to convince myself that even with all the great minds behind this project and that it was a community effort that it couldn't possibly fail. was stupid. I'm not going to make excuses my ego probably got the better of me and the praise and the desirableness of it was too good to pass up but i gotta vent. I'm stressed as fucked.
If Kim is still interested in donation towards having the actual wood sent down here. I will accept that and work something out personally with him. Kim can work something out personally with Ben Heck in regards to that. But i will not be accepting donations towards anything else. No parts. no Computers or money or anything. I do not want to feel guilty doing anything related to pinball. I do not want people to feel like i'm a byproduct of GWJ. I try to take pride in my work. this is something i cannot take pride with because it can always just not work. or mess up. There is so many issues that can happen i don't want other people to deal or face with. So if this goes any further then where we are right now. I'm going to be sourcing the parts myself. I may ask people questions sometimes but i'm not going to ask for peoples donations. and i'm not going to accept them either.
Iceman, I'm sorry the way things worked out with you and GWJ, And i still stand by the statement that i'm not involved in your ordeal. And it's between you and him 100%, but i'll be honest man. I would of really loved to of seen you get that whitewood. And i gotta learn to forgive at some point so. I don't know. No hard feelings buddy. I think your pinball collection is pretty wicked.
Sorry folks but i gotta grow up. This is way too wild and the people bringing up valid questions and concerns. even though i could bullshit my way through all of them and say 'I have the community behind me!' is not enough for me to comfortably say 100% that i can do this. and if i'm not 100% on something then i'm not going to do it. 50/50 is too risky for peoples money. And please don't harass anyone, John may of came up with the idea but i rolled with it and am ultimately responsible for concocting this wild spin-off of the daily main series toxic nonsense.
Quoted from tomdotcom:You should 100% not attempt this, and it sounds like you get that now. If you want to get into pinball, buy an old machine and restore it. At least you'll have something worthwhile in the end. Go read the threads of people that have done a homebrew themselves already or are in the process. They're usually insanely talented combined with a TON of time. People just like to watch a fire. You know? Reread Aurich's post, he said it better than I could.
Rereading Aurich's post was a factor in my decision to stop the project before it burnt up in orbit. I will probably do exactly what you're suggesting in that i'll find a older styled pinball machine and try to restore it. It's so much easier and there are way better pinballs out there then anything i could contemplate creating. I'm gonna try and stay off pinside for the night and just let people flow in with their hottakes and so forth. Sticking around makes me look like a cocaine addict looking for a fix.
Geez, i woke up with the intention you would all be playing nice with eachother. i didn't expect another cut-throat thread but then again.
Someone fill me in with the details. Who's doing what.
Quoted from benheck:Yes just keep me posted Avi, this weekend warms up so if you make a decision by then I'll let er rip.... Or not.
Figure out how much the wood will cost and give a rough estimate on shipping. If it's something i have on cash i'll head to the bank and put it in my Visa to send to you.
Everyone else. I don't have permission to give you Jon Norris's blessing and truthfully i'd feel much better if you didn't harass him over the design but i can't stop you. I'm not taking donations of any kind but i will look into paying for the Ben Heck CNC'd playfield so i can work on it in my own time, with parts that i source and purchase.. I just need a rough estimate, i can't guess the prices.
Quoted from benheck:Shipping this UPS or FedEx to Canada will cost a small fortune. See if someone here will sponsor it.
Well i'll pay for the wood anyways. It's probably the least i can do at this point in time, That i know i'll have money for. I'm looking on the Woodcraft website for Madison and i'm seeing 1/2 baltic birch plywood but only in sheets of 12x12? if you have time to figure that out let me know. Do not accept Kim's money for the wood. If he wants to pay for the shipping god bless him. but I will pay for the wood. or not, i can't force you to take my money lol.
Quoted from Mr68:It might be easier for Ben if I pay him for everything and then you pay me back on the wood.
Yeah. let's do that. keep everything simple and fresh.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Avi take what ever the guys want to donate. It will be a good project for you & you will gets lots of help with the build. Just please do not ask me anything towards the community build, & keep my stuff private! More Jon Norris examples of 3 spinners or alternates to be built.
No worries, Your stuff will stay private if that's what you and iceman desire. and no i'm not doing it man, I'll accept Kim paying for the shipping but no donations. We'll talk about what you have at the workshop and see if we can't work out something but this build is staying 100% away from donations and 100% away from anything Ice or yourself have purchased towards the whitewood already in the shop. Can't do it when other people's money is being spent, It doesn't feel right.
Quoted from pookycade:If anyone does want to accept donations and take the lead for a non-Avi pot luck community build then I am still in.
Avi you should do it your way on your timescale. But if your financial situation really is what it is, this is gonna be a difficult effort unless you can find lots of spare parts for free. John is $6K in so far and you see what you have.
I think parts are just expensive. I curse every time I have to replace even one part on my machines as I’m usually in the $200 category. Even the Black Hole (literally and figuratively) I am restoring is already $2000 in replacement parts - new playfield being a big chunk of that. Pinball is not only not easy, it’s not cheap either.
In any event good luck and I’m sure we are all willing to help out where we can be of use.
It'll be done. it just won't be done in a timely manor. And if i don't accept anyones donation, then nobody is going to feel guilty about how long it takes. Again there is a bunch of stuff i have to talk to John about anyways. I'm just thankful i don't pay for any bills.
Quoted from LORDDREK:You have no idea what this stuff costs. I still don’t and I have been buying parts for over a year.
Best advise given is invest in a retheme. Still a large project but far, far, cheaper than a scratch build. I’m sure John or the Operator could give you a worthy donor.
You're right. i have absolutely no clue the price of anything but i will figure it out. Homebrew doesn't mean perfectionist. the parts don't need to be brand new. I don't need to have a neon light for a pinball machine. Perhaps i'll do exactly what rotordave suggested with his led zeppelin build. At least the playfield will be ready for whatever i decide to do with it.
Quoted from Beechwood:Well, in half a day we had Ben offering to CNC the wood if I paid for it with shipping from Wisconsin to Michigan. I have my friend lined up to build the cabinet. More progress in 6 hours than others in 6 months.
But this was all dependant on Jon Norris'blessing, which has not yet been given. Still awaiting a response.
Avi, if you have any shot of building this, you will need resources. Not accepting funds for the build will make it extremely difficult to accomplish. You may want to rethink that.
Either way, if Norris is cool with a community build, I would love to do my part on assembly and getting it off the ground. Riefepeters you are only 15 minutes from me. We could tackle the white wood together, with help from any other locals as well
Again, just ideas at this point until Norris chimes in.
Maybe after the playfield is shipped i'll rethink my decision but i'll be honest. i don't want to be harassed about my decision to not accept donations. It's already stressful enough going from having john being supportive and saying he'll help and guide me along to saying he wants absolutely nothing to do with it. You know how badly that makes me feel? I just want the shit to end.
Quoted from Beechwood:Not harassing, just giving advice. Take it or leave it, no stress
I'm sorry man harassing wasn't the right word to use. i just don't want to think about this, It depresses me out way to easily and way to fast with the toxicity and bickering, I don't even quite know if i can rely on John.. The wood will be used eventually for something and finished eventually for something. That's all anyone should expect of me. Go ahead with your build if you decide you want to do it. Maybe Ben Heck would be generous enough to do two but talk to him, I don't want to put words in his mouth.
Quoted from TreyBo69:I’m taking a break from the drama for a bit as well. Some of y’all are just too toxic. Like some of you guys really need to take a step back and take a breath.
I’ll work on my build this winter, or not.
I’ll check in after new years (if this thread hasn’t been locked by then)
Avi, you’re a great kid. Feel free to PM me when you need help wiring something up, if you feel like it.
I'm quitting. John is acting weird, Everyone here is being baited into the weirdness, like the last thread it's turning into toxicness. I'm going to make a donation to Ben Heck for the time he wasted putting up with me and this thread. Treybo you have one rolling. Beech might be interested, All the documents are public domain. Knock yourself out guys. I'm not commenting or posting on thread anymore. Continued use of this thread is dangerous for ones health and i'm highly considering some unsavoury thoughts.
Quoted from vdojaq:Avi, I am sorry, you seem to be a great kid. I didn't mean any harm for you, but you do need some growing up here. Go with your own gut, your own thought process and do what you are going to do. Your decisions over the last 24 hours have changed so many times based on whoever has given you the best advice at that particular time, that no one can keep track. You were put under a lot of unnecessary pressure. You do not owe anyone any apologies, especially the Coach.
I do not mind taking responsibility over my indecisiveness over the period of the last 2 days in regards to if i was going to build or not build it. I did essentially take the advice as it came and based my overall project status on that, But i also feel as though there is more to that. Alot of people encouraged me at the start including John to build an original norris design. I took the idea and ran with it on my own, John's thread was locked and this thread morphed into a different monster all on it's own. But, just keep in mind. You were the one that decided without consulting me that you would be honoured to open a thread.
I'm not claiming victim or innocence, I fucked up. but so did you and alot of other people. Let's call it like it is, it's alot of peoples fault and it's okay because nobody got scammed or ripped off in the end, Alot of people on this forum have to 'grow up' me included. I offered to make a donation towards Ben Heck for his time and feel satisfied enough that i tried to make amends for the storm that was trailer trash and this thread. - You should close this thread. it's serving little to no purpose now.
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