(Topic ID: 328133)

Pinside, community build in the spirit of the original Norris 3 spinner design.

By vdojaq

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by vdojaq
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    #151 1 year ago

    Gotta admit....This is the first time in this entire fiasco.....errrr....I mean "adventure" that I'm excited about this build.

    Count me in if Avi changes his mind on the GoFundMe.

    12
    #152 1 year ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    I'm just giving the boys a choice. is a community effort so it should be a community decision. We have till thursday till Ben Heck can CNC the wood (Thank you again) if the boys want to see something new and fresh for a newbie, that's all good. or if they want to stick with what they have. that's wicked too.

    I think everyone would like to see the 3 spinner playfield be done as designed. I don't think we should drag another free design out of John Norris. He was gracious enough to GIVE it to someone who decided to bastardize it and not care one bit.

    #153 1 year ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    Gotta admit....This is the first time in this entire fiasco.....errrr....I mean "adventure" that I'm excited about this build.
    Count me in if Avi changes his mind on the GoFundMe.

    Fully agree. I had hope for a few brief moments with the GWJ GoFundMe, but then I remembered it’s GWJ and he was always just gonna do whatever the hell he wanted to.

    Having multiple people who have actually gone the distance in new pin construction, and an apprentice who accepts guidance, I like the chances this go around.

    #154 1 year ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    I think everyone would like to see the 3 spinner playfield be done as designed. I don't think we should drag another free design out of John Norris. He was gracious enough to GIVE it to someone who decided to bastardize it and not care one bit.

    All good. i'll just wait an hour. give everyone a chance to see the post and if they miss out on it, it's all good.

    12
    #155 1 year ago

    Please, stick with the original three spinner design. Keep it true as much as is practical. Let's keep this simple and fun. It looks like a great layout.

    #156 1 year ago

    If Avi is going to try to build this, then we need to think about future tasks. Anyone able help with coding? No need to loadup Avi with that task. I guess Proc or Fast is still an unknown?

    #157 1 year ago

    I offer the following, humbly, as a casual observer of this ongoing, gruesome, yet entertaining fiasco.

    If the so-called Ice was a Coach worth his salt he would get out to the mound and pull GWJ’s ass out of the game. GWJ showed up at the ballpark cocked and listless with a gut full of rancid meat. He’s got no fastball, and has been getting shelled for 7 innings. A real Coach would take the ball (The Parts) away from him, sending him to the showers where he could sit around the locker room bullshitting, drinking beer, and pounding his pud; then hand the ball (The Parts) to Avi to save the game.

    Avi gets the parts in hand and mates them with the new whitewood generously provided by Coach Heck - and the game goes on.

    GWJ can give Avi rubdowns as needed between innings.

    And Pinsiders (The Fans) are obviously willing to provide for any future expenses needed to complete the whitewood. After the whitewood is complete, well that’s the second game of a double header…worry about that tomorrow.

    But for now, if people put their egos aside everybody can share in a victory.

    The Coach has basically admitted GWJ just isn’t getting it done. He should have the strength of his convictions and go to the bullpen where he’s got a hot rookie prospect, and fan fave, warming up. Don’t throw in the towel, win the damn game, Coach!

    Or not.

    #158 1 year ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    If Avi is going to try to build this, then we need to think about future tasks. Anyone able help with coding? No need to loadup Avi with that task. I guess Proc or Fast is still an unknown?

    Treybo offered to donate to the cause with a.... Cobrapin? i think is what he said it was to keep costs down and keep it simple. I'm not holding him to it same as anyone else. if you're uncomftorable at any point with the build you're more then welcome to just watch.

    #159 1 year ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    I'll let you guys pick before i respond back to Jon Norris. Essentially what he said in his reply to me is that he gives me permission to use his 3 spinner design if i choose to. but that Treybo is also creating a interpretation of it. I do not know the details on that but he's given me two options.
    Option one is he'll send me the files to the 3 spinner design that we're going with now. And things will just continue on as they are..
    Option two is, He'll send me a different design to use. that way you'll have a new one that hasn't been seen yet. you'll have the one John is making. and the one Treybo is messing around with.
    The catch is I'm still only allowed to produce 1 playfield with either option i choose because Jon Norris is trying sell the design to a company. which i'm totally fine he put the work into designing them. it's only fair.

    The more I learn about Jon Norris, the more I admire him. That's a stud move by Jon and I'm hoping any Pinside noise we can generate will get him noticed.

    A new design goes hand in hand with a fresh start but I really like the three spinner design already. And you already know what you've got and you don't know what your going to get. I guess the tie breaker for me would be to go with the unknown game.

    But with the unknown game I'm using the same stupid logic that has me salivating over the Elwin 007 mystery game from Stern. I haven't seen it, know nothing at all about it, but I want to buy it.

    Ridiculous. I'm an impulsive moron so do the opposite of me.

    12
    #160 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dpirhana:

    I offer the following, humbly, as a casual observer of this ongoing, gruesome, yet entertaining fiasco.
    If the so-called Ice was a Coach worth his salt he would get out to the mound and pull GWJ’s ass out of the game. GWJ showed up at the ballpark cocked and listless with a gut full of rancid meat. He’s got no fastball, and has been getting shelled for 7 innings. A real Coach would take the ball (The Parts) away from him, sending him to the showers where he could sit around the locker room bullshitting, drinking beer, and pounding his pud; then hand the ball (The Parts) to Avi to save the game.
    Avi gets the parts in hand and mates them with the new whitewood generously provided by Coach Heck - and the game goes on.
    GWJ can give Avi rubdowns as needed between innings.
    And Pinsiders (The Fans) are obviously willing to provide for any future expenses needed to complete the whitewood. After the whitewood is complete, well that’s the second game of a double header…worry about that tomorrow.
    But for now, if people put their egos aside everybody can share in a victory.
    The Coach has basically admitted GWJ just isn’t getting it done. He should have the strength of his convictions and go to the bullpen where he’s got a hot rookie prospect, and fan fave, warming up. Don’t throw in the towel, win the damn game, Coach!
    Or not.

    Disagree. Avi is wise to steer clear of Mr. Ice. Lay down with dogs and you get fleas. Avi can have all the support he needs if he wants from the community.

    #161 1 year ago

    Coach TreyBo69, Coach Ben Heck, Coach Jon Norris and a few others in the club house, is a generous and brilliant team.

    20
    #162 1 year ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    The catch is I'm still only allowed to produce 1 playfield with either option i choose because Jon Norris is trying sell the design to a company. which i'm totally fine he put the work into designing them. it's only fair.

    So you have no money, and no experience, and you're going to spend potentially the next 2+ years of your life working on a project that will rely on a steady stream of donations to be able to progress at every step of the way, and you don't actually understand how to do any of the steps yet.

    All so if you actually manage to finish you won't even own the design that all that effort went into.

    I don't believe you, or anyone egging you on, actually understands how much work is involved in making a complete pinball, and how many specialized skills it takes. And how much it costs. If you don't hire out a single aspect, and don't value your own time at all, expect to still spend $6-10k USD.

    Scott Danesi sold a bunch of his pins to finance Total Nuclear Annihilation. And he can program, do CAD, and electrical and mechanical engineering, wrote all his own music and did all the sound design so he didn't have to pay anyone for those things. It still took him two years to have the game people bought and he said he practically killed himself to do it.

    Seriously think about if this is what you want to embark on, and something you want to feel you have to commit to as people potentially send you thousands and thousands of dollars, either in cash outright or parts they expect you to use.

    All so you can make a game that's someone else's design that they intend to sell.

    #163 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    So you have no money, and no experience, and you're going to spend potentially the next 2+ years of your life working on a project that will rely on a steady stream of donations to be able to progress at every step of the way, and you don't actually understand how to do any of the steps yet.
    All so if you actually manage to finish you won't even own the design that all that effort went into.
    I don't believe you, or anyone egging you on, actually understands how much work is involved in making a complete pinball, and how many specialized skills it takes. And how much it costs. If you don't hire out a single aspect, and don't value your own time at all, expect to still spend $6-10k USD.
    Scott Danesi sold a bunch of his pins to finance Total Nuclear Annihilation. And he can program, do CAD, and electrical and mechanical engineering, wrote all his own music and did all the sound design so he didn't have to pay anyone for those things. It still took him two years to have the game people bought and he said he practically killed himself to do it.
    Seriously think about if this is what you want to embark on, and something you want to feel you have to commit to as people potentially send you thousands and thousands of dollars, either in cash outright or parts they expect you to use.
    All so you can make a game that's someone else's design that they intend to sell.

    He lives at home, has no official employment, is smart and has plenty of time on his hands. He is just now breaking out off his shell, so yes. This project is great for him. With help from the community he can do this. It will take a LOT of his time. But leaning on us for coding, cnc, advice etc it is possible.

    #164 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    So you have no money, and no experience, and you're going to spend potentially the next 2+ years of your life working on a project that will rely on a steady stream of donations to be able to progress at every step of the way, and you don't actually understand how to do any of the steps yet.
    All so if you actually manage to finish you won't even own the design that all that effort went into.
    I don't believe you, or anyone egging you on, actually understands how much work is involved in making a complete pinball, and how many specialized skills it takes. And how much it costs. If you don't hire out a single aspect, and don't value your own time at all, expect to still spend $6-10k USD.
    Scott Danesi sold a bunch of his pins to finance Total Nuclear Annihilation. And he can program, do CAD, and electrical and mechanical engineering, wrote all his own music and did all the sound design so he didn't have to pay anyone for those things. It still took him two years to have the game people bought and he said he practically killed himself to do it.
    Seriously think about if this is what you want to embark on, and something you want to feel you have to commit to as people potentially send you thousands and thousands of dollars, either in cash outright or parts they expect you to use.
    All so you can make a game that's someone else's design that they intend to sell.

    As someone “egging him on” I have to say I completely agree with all of your points. Dead on correct, and you for one should know.

    I suspect this will be very much a community effort here and has no better than a 50/50 chance, maybe less, of seeing a working machine. If Avi is to take it on it’s mostly for the experience of doing so, and I don’t think anyone believes this will be his full time job.

    But hell yeah it’s gonna be a lot of work, probably more than anyone who hasn’t gone thru the process can expect. We will all probably get bored, over busy, hopefully further out than John got.

    This will not be a saleable machine. Art will likely be crap, code barely there beyond rudimentary, music - uh what music other than a background track MP3 running on a Bluetooth speaker from an iPhone.

    Is that worth someone’s, anyone’s time ? Can’t answer that. Depends on what one is hoping to get out of it.

    If expectations are we get to where we get to, we keep doing it as long as it’s fun, nobody is out a substantial amount, you have to admit it’s an interesting experiment, no ?

    I don’t believe Avi is committing to anything here. And if he drops out maybe someone else picks it up. Tag team pinball at its finest.

    #165 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    So you have no money, and no experience, and you're going to spend potentially the next 2+ years of your life working on a project that will rely on a steady stream of donations to be able to progress at every step of the way, and you don't actually understand how to do any of the steps yet.
    All so if you actually manage to finish you won't even own the design that all that effort went into.
    I don't believe you, or anyone egging you on, actually understands how much work is involved in making a complete pinball, and how many specialized skills it takes. And how much it costs. If you don't hire out a single aspect, and don't value your own time at all, expect to still spend $6-10k USD.
    Scott Danesi sold a bunch of his pins to finance Total Nuclear Annihilation. And he can program, do CAD, and electrical and mechanical engineering, wrote all his own music and did all the sound design so he didn't have to pay anyone for those things. It still took him two years to have the game people bought and he said he practically killed himself to do it.
    Seriously think about if this is what you want to embark on, and something you want to feel you have to commit to as people potentially send you thousands and thousands of dollars, either in cash outright or parts they expect you to use.
    All so you can make a game that's someone else's design that they intend to sell.

    ----Please read my lastest post below----

    I would have money if the operator didn't lie about my game not being for sale. but no hard feelings. This venture is souly for a flipping whitewood...... Cabinet. artwork. all that stuff will be talked about after the playfield itself is flipping and to a point that everyone thinks is reasonable.. The soul purpose for the moment is to just make a playfield that works. I don't think that'll take an entire year to do. I could be wrong but i will work on it faithfully. even if i have to bring all that stuff back into my bedroom and work on it there. and Beech is right. I don't have friends. i don't drink.. I'm not going to kill myself working on it. Everyone Agree's that there is no deadline. and if it seriously 100% gets to a point where I'm not comfortable in my ability. i'll surrender the project and send it to someone else that will finish it. but that's a lost cause last case scenario type situation.

    #166 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    So you have no money, and no experience, and you're going to spend potentially the next 2+ years of your life working on a project that will rely on a steady stream of donations to be able to progress at every step of the way, and you don't actually understand how to do any of the steps yet.
    All so if you actually manage to finish you won't even own the design that all that effort went into.
    I don't believe you, or anyone egging you on, actually understands how much work is involved in making a complete pinball, and how many specialized skills it takes. And how much it costs. If you don't hire out a single aspect, and don't value your own time at all, expect to still spend $6-10k USD.
    Scott Danesi sold a bunch of his pins to finance Total Nuclear Annihilation. And he can program, do CAD, and electrical and mechanical engineering, wrote all his own music and did all the sound design so he didn't have to pay anyone for those things. It still took him two years to have the game people bought and he said he practically killed himself to do it.
    Seriously think about if this is what you want to embark on, and something you want to feel you have to commit to as people potentially send you thousands and thousands of dollars, either in cash outright or parts they expect you to use.
    All so you can make a game that's someone else's design that they intend to sell.

    Lots of people do homebrews. If Avi wants to pursue it, he'll have the leg up of lots of support. He certainly should not do it out of a sense of obligation or because people are saying they'll help out. He should do it if he wants to. It sounds like he does.

    #167 1 year ago

    ----Please read my lastest post below----

    i'm not looking to start a pinball business and bring in contracts and get licenses. I'm just a dumb kid who like's pinball and has repaired a few things here and there. It was john's idea. I was interested in cracking a shot at it. Everyone else seemed interested in letting me crack a shot at it. that's the way i look at it. this play-field will go as far as the people who help it go far. I admit it i don't know everything under the sun.

    I'm not forcing anyone to partake. I'm not sure what else to say. Everyone who is involved or is thinking about being involved should talk it over realistically with eachother. and if by wensday everyone agree's this is a bad idea. i'll step down and have the thread deleted before any money is spent on it. But i am going to talk it over with a few people.

    #168 1 year ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    ...This venture is souly for a flipping whitewood...

    Exactly, Avi. Prop it up on some saw horses if need be. Keep it simple or it will become overwhelming.

    18
    #169 1 year ago

    Here's the deal folks. I talked it over with a bunch of people and truthfully i've been second guessing the entire ordeal for awhile now but especially since John's post was locked and spotlight was given to me. I feel as though the main drive for everyone originally starting this project was based on ill-intentions because of the GWJ Iceman thread which I'm not going to comment on. the appeal of having the newbie apprentice build something faster then John was too sexy not to contemplate. And i would've been more then happy to give it my serious dedication. But now that John's post is locked and all the attention has been spotlighted onto me. I feel as though people are starting to see past the sexiness of what we all wanted accomplished and we're starting to slow down now and actually say. "Hey is this really a good idea to sponsor?" We're all friends here and I'm happy to have met some of the greatest minds on pinside and to be welcomed in such a unreal way. but none of you know me. none of you have seen me work, you have no idea of my capabilities and i don't feel comfortable or great with that.

    Even i was trying to convince myself that even with all the great minds behind this project and that it was a community effort that it couldn't possibly fail. was stupid. I'm not going to make excuses my ego probably got the better of me and the praise and the desirableness of it was too good to pass up but i gotta vent. I'm stressed as fucked.

    If Kim is still interested in donation towards having the actual wood sent down here. I will accept that and work something out personally with him. Kim can work something out personally with Ben Heck in regards to that. But i will not be accepting donations towards anything else. No parts. no Computers or money or anything. I do not want to feel guilty doing anything related to pinball. I do not want people to feel like i'm a byproduct of GWJ. I try to take pride in my work. this is something i cannot take pride with because it can always just not work. or mess up. There is so many issues that can happen i don't want other people to deal or face with. So if this goes any further then where we are right now. I'm going to be sourcing the parts myself. I may ask people questions sometimes but i'm not going to ask for peoples donations. and i'm not going to accept them either.

    Iceman, I'm sorry the way things worked out with you and GWJ, And i still stand by the statement that i'm not involved in your ordeal. And it's between you and him 100%, but i'll be honest man. I would of really loved to of seen you get that whitewood. And i gotta learn to forgive at some point so. I don't know. No hard feelings buddy. I think your pinball collection is pretty wicked.

    Sorry folks but i gotta grow up. This is way too wild and the people bringing up valid questions and concerns. even though i could bullshit my way through all of them and say 'I have the community behind me!' is not enough for me to comfortably say 100% that i can do this. and if i'm not 100% on something then i'm not going to do it. 50/50 is too risky for peoples money. And please don't harass anyone, John may of came up with the idea but i rolled with it and am ultimately responsible for concocting this wild spin-off of the daily main series toxic nonsense.

    #170 1 year ago

    You're a good egg, Avi

    #171 1 year ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    Here's the deal folks. I talked it over with a bunch of people and truthfully i've been second guessing the entire ordeal for awhile now but especially since John's post was locked and spotlight was given to me. I feel as though the main drive for everyone originally starting this project was based on ill-intentions because of the GWJ Iceman thread which I'm not going to comment on. the appeal of having the newbie apprentice build something faster then John was too sexy not to contemplate. And i would've been more then happy to give it my serious dedication. But now that John's post is locked and all the attention has been spotlighted onto me. I feel as though people are starting to see past the sexiness of what we all wanted accomplished and we're starting to slow down now and actually say. "Hey is this really a good idea to sponsor?" We're all friends here and I'm happy to have met some of the greatest minds on pinside and to be welcomed in such a unreal way. but none of you know me. none of you have seen me work, you have no idea of my capabilities and i don't feel comfortable or great with that.
    Even i was trying to convince myself that even with all the great minds behind this project and that it was a community effort that it couldn't possibly fail. was stupid. I'm not going to make excuses my ego probably got the better of me and the praise and the desirableness of it was too good to pass up but i gotta vent. I'm stressed as fucked.
    If Kim is still interested in donation towards having the actual wood sent down here. I will accept that and work something out personally with him. Kim can work something out personally with Ben Heck in regards to that. But i will not be accepting donations towards anything else. No parts. no Computers or money or anything. I do not want to feel guilty doing anything related to pinball. I do not want people to feel like i'm a byproduct of GWJ. I try to take pride in my work. this is something i cannot take pride with because it can always just not work. or mess up. There is so many issues that can happen i don't want other people to deal or face with. So if this goes any further then where we are right now. I'm going to be sourcing the parts myself. I may ask people questions sometimes but i'm not going to ask for peoples donations. and i'm not going to accept them either.
    Iceman, I'm sorry the way things worked out with you and GWJ, And i still stand by the statement that i'm not involved in your ordeal. And it's between you and him 100%, but i'll be honest man. I would of really loved to of seen you get that whitewood. And i gotta learn to forgive at some point so. I don't know. No hard feelings buddy. I think your pinball collection is pretty wicked.
    Sorry folks but i gotta grow up. This is way too wild and the people bringing up valid questions and concerns. even though i could bullshit my way through all of them and say 'I have the community behind me!' is not enough for me to comfortably say 100% that i can do this. and if i'm not 100% on something then i'm not going to do it. 50/50 is too risky for peoples money. And please don't harass anyone.

    You're being very realistic and that's commendable.

    -6
    #172 1 year ago

    I did not talk with Avi, & contrary to all the ill feelings towards my build for the coach. I have never left the game & still on the mound pitching in the game. Seems like I am getting killed at the plate. But that is life on Pinside. Still think Ben & the fanboys here continue on with Avi & the original 3 Spinners from Jon Norris. What ever happens the 2 projects will remain seperate if people want to move ahead, & worse case Avi has to move the project to his bedroom or garage filled with wood.

    #173 1 year ago

    You should 100% not attempt this, and it sounds like you get that now. If you want to get into pinball, buy an old machine and restore it. At least you'll have something worthwhile in the end. Go read the threads of people that have done a homebrew themselves already or are in the process. They're usually insanely talented combined with a TON of time. People just like to watch a fire. You know? Reread Aurich's post, he said it better than I could.

    #174 1 year ago

    AviRoo It’s a shame that your legitimate interest in building a whitewood and learning the process (at your own pace) has been framed in such a contentious way by other people.
    Ask yourself this and answer truthfully: “Is this something I want to do and learn for myself?”
    If the answer is yes then do it.
    Do it in a way that makes you feel happy and productive.
    Don’t get bogged down thinking of other people's imposed deadlines or expectations.
    Don’t get bogged down by people that want to compare your level of knowledge (novice) to others and say you don’t stand a chance because you can’t code or program or design art or whatever else right now.
    There’s too many jaded people and know-it-alls in the world.
    You don’t have to compare yourself to anyone or second guess your intentions.
    Your legitimacy is your interest and effort.
    If you are true to yourself and your project, that’s all that matters.
    Cross bridges when you come to them and don’t lose the forest for the tree.
    Think it over. Answer only to yourself.
    Maybe start your own thread if you proceed to separate your adventure from the circus that birthed it. Just my 2 cents.

    #175 1 year ago
    Quoted from tomdotcom:

    You should 100% not attempt this, and it sounds like you get that now. If you want to get into pinball, buy an old machine and restore it. At least you'll have something worthwhile in the end. Go read the threads of people that have done a homebrew themselves already or are in the process. They're usually insanely talented combined with a TON of time. People just like to watch a fire. You know? Reread Aurich's post, he said it better than I could.

    Rereading Aurich's post was a factor in my decision to stop the project before it burnt up in orbit. I will probably do exactly what you're suggesting in that i'll find a older styled pinball machine and try to restore it. It's so much easier and there are way better pinballs out there then anything i could contemplate creating. I'm gonna try and stay off pinside for the night and just let people flow in with their hottakes and so forth. Sticking around makes me look like a cocaine addict looking for a fix.

    10
    #176 1 year ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    I did not talk with Avi, & contrary to all the ill feelings towards my build for the coach. I have never left the game & still on the mound pitching in the game. Seems like I am getting killed at the plate. But that is life on Pinside. Still think Ben & the fanboys here continue on with Avi & the original 3 Spinners from Jon Norris. What ever happens the 2 projects will remain seperate if people want to move ahead, & worse case Avi has to move the project to his bedroom or garage filled with wood.

    Your post comes off as just being sour towards the whole situation. Step up your game and quit sulking. If you buckled down you could still get it done, even if not on schedule. I think way too much personal life came into your thread compared to actual pinball progress. People would ask you about coding etc and your next post would be about beer count and ham, with no response to the question, as if you never saw the question or just wouldn't acknowledge it. I'm not trying to bust your balls but this isn't "Expiredhamside". I think we all expected a little more. I wish you all the best moving forward.

    #177 1 year ago

    Has there ever been so much pinball drama in one day on Pinside before? On Christmas no less… Thank you Santa this build really delivered!

    And Avi good job at least coming to terms with the trajectory of this going forward. Has a spite build even been done before..?

    #178 1 year ago
    Quoted from LORDDREK:

    Has there ever been so much pinball drama in one day on Pinside before? On Christmas no less… Thank you Santa this build really delivered!
    And Avi good job at least coming to terms with the trajectory of this going forward. Has a spite build even been done before..?

    NO there hasn't, FTW!

    #179 1 year ago
    Quoted from LORDDREK:

    Has a spite build even been done before..?

    Quoted from Pinbub:

    NO there hasn't, FTW!

    Screenshot_20221225-213055 (resized).pngScreenshot_20221225-213055 (resized).png
    -18
    #180 1 year ago

    Still think you guys should move forward on Bens cnc playfield for Avi. Avi can either move forward, or it can be sent to TPF for charity. Or be burned, I still have a reputation & not had a fire in years.

    #181 1 year ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    Rereading Aurich's post was a factor in my decision to stop the project before it burnt up in orbit. I will probably do exactly what you're suggesting in that i'll find a older styled pinball machine and try to restore it. It's so much easier and there are way better pinballs out there then anything i could contemplate creating. I'm gonna try and stay off pinside for the night and just let people flow in with their hottakes and so forth. Sticking around makes me look like a cocaine addict looking for a fix.

    I don't know how long you've been around, or if you even know who I am. But I have direct experience with not only working on a game, but also how pressure and BS can make a passion hobby like pinball go sour and really burn you out. I only have your best interests in mind when I share my perspective.

    If you want to make a game that's awesome, but finding your own path to it instead of being part of a circus of public expectations has a much better chance of being a positive experience. Take your time, enjoy learning, there's no rush.

    If my post helped you that's great, but from your response I think you already knew everything you said and just needed a little time to figure it out.

    14
    #182 1 year ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    Still think you guys should move forward on Bens cnc playfield for Avi. Avi can either move forward, or it can be sent to TPF for charity. Or be burned, I still have a reputation & not had a fire in years.

    You had your shot old man. Go eat some expired ham.

    #183 1 year ago

    Avi, you are a good dude. It's whatever you decide. Build the whitewood if your intentions are to prove to yourself you can do it. Otherwise, building it for any other reason, isn't going to pan out to your expectations. Either way, it's up to you. I can tell you this, if you decide to build just the whitewood, I am sure there are plenty of talented people here that could and will code it, and finish it. It really could be a Pinside community build with different players taking on different portions. That could be something very exclusive and neat to be part of. In my case, I can , have and do complete refurbishing. My work is in Pinball Magazine #3. I can build, but I sure as hell can't code. Maybe with one of the systems out there for such things , I probably could learn.

    15
    #184 1 year ago

    Avi I'm happy to cut you a WW of the layout and others have offered to donate shipping costs.

    Do with it what you will, but Aurich is right. Pinball is HARD and anyone who thinks otherwise (GWJ) is dooming themselves to failure.

    Pinside is a great community, lots of homebrewers on here ready to help. If you go into it with the right attitude, wanting to have fun and learn, and being patient yet hardworking, it can be very rewarding.

    Just don't promise 10 games in 6 months.

    16
    #185 1 year ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    I still have a reputation

    That’s for sure. Although it may not be what you think.

    #186 1 year ago

    I can’t believe all this transpired over Christmas….. where are all the families?

    #187 1 year ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    I still have a reputation & not had a fire in years.

    That’s not true at all. Your shit just burned down and a couple months from now when you cannot afford all that bar beer and your wife’s chucking eggs at you for the case of Nat Ice because that’s all the nickels left maybe then it will set in that you alone drove this bus right off a cliff.

    But yes your reputation is more intact than ever…

    #188 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinlink:

    That’s for sure. Although it may not be what you think.

    You beat me too it. John you definitely have a reputation! I don't want to sidetrack the thread but you've commented repeatedly about how everyone got their playfields from your playfield fiasco but people don't want to wait 8 years to be made whole. I'm sure several people gave up and moved the machines out before they got their playfields.

    #189 1 year ago

    And so this all comes to a fitting close.

    Avi please keep posting your progress on whatever you decide to pursue homebrew wise. There are lots of excellent people you know are here to help and enjoy following these.

    As a start go review the multiple excellent homebrew threads which give you a good idea of effort involved and difficulties encountered. If John had done the same before beginning his odyssey he may have made the same decision as you. Or not.

    #190 1 year ago

    Merry Christmas to all.. and to all a good night. The end

    #191 1 year ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    Here's the deal folks. I talked it over with a bunch of people and truthfully i've been second guessing the entire ordeal for awhile now but especially since John's post was locked and spotlight was given to me. I feel as though the main drive for everyone originally starting this project was based on ill-intentions because of the GWJ Iceman thread which I'm not going to comment on. the appeal of having the newbie apprentice build something faster then John was too sexy not to contemplate. And i would've been more then happy to give it my serious dedication. But now that John's post is locked and all the attention has been spotlighted onto me. I feel as though people are starting to see past the sexiness of what we all wanted accomplished and we're starting to slow down now and actually say. "Hey is this really a good idea to sponsor?" We're all friends here and I'm happy to have met some of the greatest minds on pinside and to be welcomed in such a unreal way. but none of you know me. none of you have seen me work, you have no idea of my capabilities and i don't feel comfortable or great with that.
    Even i was trying to convince myself that even with all the great minds behind this project and that it was a community effort that it couldn't possibly fail. was stupid. I'm not going to make excuses my ego probably got the better of me and the praise and the desirableness of it was too good to pass up but i gotta vent. I'm stressed as fucked.
    If Kim is still interested in donation towards having the actual wood sent down here. I will accept that and work something out personally with him. Kim can work something out personally with Ben Heck in regards to that. But i will not be accepting donations towards anything else. No parts. no Computers or money or anything. I do not want to feel guilty doing anything related to pinball. I do not want people to feel like i'm a byproduct of GWJ. I try to take pride in my work. this is something i cannot take pride with because it can always just not work. or mess up. There is so many issues that can happen i don't want other people to deal or face with. So if this goes any further then where we are right now. I'm going to be sourcing the parts myself. I may ask people questions sometimes but i'm not going to ask for peoples donations. and i'm not going to accept them either.
    Iceman, I'm sorry the way things worked out with you and GWJ, And i still stand by the statement that i'm not involved in your ordeal. And it's between you and him 100%, but i'll be honest man. I would of really loved to of seen you get that whitewood. And i gotta learn to forgive at some point so. I don't know. No hard feelings buddy. I think your pinball collection is pretty wicked.
    Sorry folks but i gotta grow up. This is way too wild and the people bringing up valid questions and concerns. even though i could bullshit my way through all of them and say 'I have the community behind me!' is not enough for me to comfortably say 100% that i can do this. and if i'm not 100% on something then i'm not going to do it. 50/50 is too risky for peoples money. And please don't harass anyone, John may of came up with the idea but i rolled with it and am ultimately responsible for concocting this wild spin-off of the daily main series toxic nonsense.

    No hard feelings at all Avi. I’m a big boy and knew what I was getting into from day one.

    You are a young kid with the rest of your life ahead of you and have a good head on your shoulders.

    You def don’t need to be bogged down by making some BS pinball machine for 2 years with anybody. And don’t need to feel pressured by anybody to do so. Aurich is a good dude and right on with his advice.

    Some people here love the drama at any cost.

    Use your talents for anything outside of pinball. It’s not a lifestyle and who would pay you? Ben? Kim?

    I wish you the best of luck

    12
    #192 1 year ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    Here's the deal folks. I talked it over with a bunch of people and truthfully i've been second guessing the entire ordeal for awhile now but especially since John's post was locked and spotlight was given to me. I feel as though the main drive for everyone originally starting this project was based on ill-intentions because of the GWJ Iceman thread which I'm not going to comment on. the appeal of having the newbie apprentice build something faster then John was too sexy not to contemplate. And i would've been more then happy to give it my serious dedication. But now that John's post is locked and all the attention has been spotlighted onto me. I feel as though people are starting to see past the sexiness of what we all wanted accomplished and we're starting to slow down now and actually say. "Hey is this really a good idea to sponsor?" We're all friends here and I'm happy to have met some of the greatest minds on pinside and to be welcomed in such a unreal way. but none of you know me. none of you have seen me work, you have no idea of my capabilities and i don't feel comfortable or great with that.
    Even i was trying to convince myself that even with all the great minds behind this project and that it was a community effort that it couldn't possibly fail. was stupid. I'm not going to make excuses my ego probably got the better of me and the praise and the desirableness of it was too good to pass up but i gotta vent. I'm stressed as fucked.
    If Kim is still interested in donation towards having the actual wood sent down here. I will accept that and work something out personally with him. Kim can work something out personally with Ben Heck in regards to that. But i will not be accepting donations towards anything else. No parts. no Computers or money or anything. I do not want to feel guilty doing anything related to pinball. I do not want people to feel like i'm a byproduct of GWJ. I try to take pride in my work. this is something i cannot take pride with because it can always just not work. or mess up. There is so many issues that can happen i don't want other people to deal or face with. So if this goes any further then where we are right now. I'm going to be sourcing the parts myself. I may ask people questions sometimes but i'm not going to ask for peoples donations. and i'm not going to accept them either.
    Iceman, I'm sorry the way things worked out with you and GWJ, And i still stand by the statement that i'm not involved in your ordeal. And it's between you and him 100%, but i'll be honest man. I would of really loved to of seen you get that whitewood. And i gotta learn to forgive at some point so. I don't know. No hard feelings buddy. I think your pinball collection is pretty wicked.
    Sorry folks but i gotta grow up. This is way too wild and the people bringing up valid questions and concerns. even though i could bullshit my way through all of them and say 'I have the community behind me!' is not enough for me to comfortably say 100% that i can do this. and if i'm not 100% on something then i'm not going to do it. 50/50 is too risky for peoples money. And please don't harass anyone, John may of came up with the idea but i rolled with it and am ultimately responsible for concocting this wild spin-off of the daily main series toxic nonsense.

    Avi, here's the thing I think you should understand about donations. I've got parts in my garage and basement that have been lying around because someday I might need them. Turns out I probably never will, and would rather give them to someone that can. I guarantee there's a lot of others here that are in the same boat. So it really is no trouble for me to rummage around and see if I have something you can use. It's a benefit to me to clear stuff out, and I'd be happy to ship to you

    #193 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:No hard feelings at all Avi. I’m a big boy and knew what I was getting into from day one.
    You are a young kid with the rest of your life ahead of you and have a good head on your shoulders.
    You def don’t need to be bogged down by making some BS pinball machine for 2 years with anybody. And don’t need to feel pressured by anybody to do so. Aurich is a good dude and right on with his advice.
    Some people here love the drama at any cost.
    Use your talents for anything outside of pinball. It’s not a lifestyle and who would pay you? Ben? Kim?
    I wish you the best of luck

    Yeah,well.........

    #194 1 year ago

    Well shit.

    #195 1 year ago

    If this build doesn't end up happening is there any chance we can get a John & Avi daily repairs blog sort of thread going? More or less what the old one was, just without the implication of a finished game coming from it

    #196 1 year ago
    Quoted from WaddleJrJr:

    If this build doesn't end up happening is there any chance we can get a John & Avi daily repairs blog sort of thread going? More or less what the old one was, just without the implication of a finished game coming from it

    And hopefully not with expired meat and beer count updates. It just became really stale, very quickly. I have a feeling it would just become a daily blog about John's life and that would be really sad.

    12
    #197 1 year ago
    Quoted from AviRoo:

    Sorry folks but i gotta grow up. This is way too wild and the people bringing up valid questions and concerns

    Avi - I 100% commend you on your mature decision. Your post is spot on.

    What I would recommend is getting an old POS EM or SS pin for $500 - I’m sure John or the operator come across them - and get that all working properly, and maybe retheme it.

    It’s still a *shitload* of work - but it would be less than 1/4 of trying to program a computer and making video and sound assets to any sort of decent level.

    Check out this build I did a few years ago. I took a $300 Bally Freedom and turned it into something pretty cool. It was a shitload of work!! But we play it almost every day, and every time people think it’s a real 1976 Bally game, I have a little smile.

    Read the thread - I hope it gives you some inspiration!

    rd

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1976-bally-led-zeppelin-retheme

    AA37C45F-A8A3-4190-BA2C-7CE89BF298A1 (resized).jpegAA37C45F-A8A3-4190-BA2C-7CE89BF298A1 (resized).jpeg
    -1
    #198 1 year ago

    Up early today, good to see some good will to all going on, or not.

    #199 1 year ago
    Quoted from greatwichjohn:

    Up early today, good to see some good will to all going on, or not.

    Why don't you go back to your sad thread....oh that's right you no longer have one.

    AviRoo if you ever decide to head down the route of a homebrew in some way shape of form, I would gladly chip in to help you anyway possible. I believe you would enjoy the build process and work hard to get it done.

    -8
    #200 1 year ago
    Quoted from Micky:

    Why don't you go back to your sad thread....oh that's right you no longer have one.
    AviRoo if you ever decide to head down the route of a homebrew in some way shape of form, I would gladly chip in to help you anyway possible. I believe you would enjoy the build process and work hard to get it done.

    No thread & Sobeys is still closed on Boxing Day. Got myself a Big Mac coupon for later. Got the first bus of the day to the workshop. Pop machine on early since some of the local pinball owners will likely visit today. Drink some beer. Beer total xmas was only a Guinness. Still no snow here which is fine by me.

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