If you are referring to me, I received a lifetime ban with no reason given. I was not contacted prior to being banned, nor do I actually know why I was banned.

I made a post on Pinside that indicated my thoughts on Aussie Arcade having commercial sponsors like Bumper. I said I thought it was a conflict of interest and may have been the reason the discussions on AA were stifled.

It is particularly ridiculous that they even bother with the $50 sponsorship fee when it has the potential to create this uncertainty.

Moderate, sure. But policing the internet forums and banning someone for a post they make on another forum..... that's something else.

yep sounds a bit harsh.......but what can ya do, bet they wouldn't ban one of their moderators for out spoken remarks on anything.......maybe you should start your own pinball site and none of this would matter haha

I'm happy on Pinside. Seems the perfect balance.

Do you think Jack ever wishes he had never decided to get into such an odd business?

Aint such a bad thing....

_{Post edited by absocountry2 : Profanity in quote edited}

At the time I ordered my WoZ, the distribution agreement was fairly fresh. I ordered direct from JJP but my order was referred to Bumper.

I received an email from Bumper outlining the payment schedule etc. to which I replied that I would prefer not to deal with them. Subsequently, I contacted JJP to see if I could order direct.

When asked by Jack why I wanted to do it this way I replied that I had dealings with Bumper in the past and that I would rather not order at all than deal with them. I left it at that and ordered through JJP.

Much to my amazement, when reps from Bumper visited JJP HQ in New Jersey shortly afterwards, there must have been a conversation about my order. I was told that one of the reps had called their Australian office about it. He asked one of their staff to pass on to me that the next time he saw me he would 'knock my block off'. He passed it on - I laughed.

I did see the man in question a bit later that year at a trade show. He knew who I was and he dutifully extended his hand to shake mine. No mention of any "block" to be "knocked off".

I have posted the message I sent to Jack regarding my concerns in April 2013 outlining what was circulating in the community here with regard to Bumper. My sources are impeccable. Insiders at Bumper, customers and heavy hitters in the industry. I always seek their approval before circulating materials I have gained in this way.

I have also 'sat' on a lot of other information that I could not corroborate or triangulate from independent sources.

I am not affected by the Bumper fiasco, nor am I surprised by it. I just hate to see honest and hardworking people lose their money without any apparent concern from the business that took their money but delivered nothing.

If my sources were to post here, it would be a real eye opener. Best of luck with the process. It is just a disgrace.

Ordering any product from a start up company can be a risk, doing so from another country adds risk becasue of a long distance middleman. If I was JJP I would refund / return any payments or deposits to the existing / former distro or business entity it came from. Potentially getting sucked into a long distance argument over funds or games will be costly and not worth it.

People that deposited money with the distro need to go after / file a claim on record if they are not refunded funds or delivered a game.

This is a nightmare. Good vibes sent for those that have money down.

Lesson learned here, I'll never Pre Order a game. What a nightmare for all involved. Geez

my two cents:
we all had to pay for this WOZ up front ( I don't have my game either yet)
for that same reason I will not prepay for the Hobbit and wait till it hits the markets in two years

BUT : we all had to pay Upfront for this game WOZ so JJ should have collected the money
from these Bumper people , just like they did from everybody else paid long ago.
Now if this distributor kept money back JJ knows about this JJ should have forced the
Bumper people to pay to whole amount according to schedule.
JJ should have smelled a snake under the grass here and at least warned people the
people the money was being held by the Distributor.
NOW: if the people in Australia knew the money they gave for the game WOZ was only partially
send , they should have been more alert and ask why or contact JJ directly why ?

I feel bad for the people being burnt like this , we all work hard for our money.
If someone starts a donate fund of some sort, I will donate to help the people out and get
their WOZ and we all should.

understand what your saying, i don't think anyone looking or would accept donations, kind gesture tho

All the US dealers paid up front in full 2+ years ago

Bumper told all customers that they were placing the balances in a Unit Trust to protect them (obviously from JJP). People were paying directly into the Belhill Unit Trust.

Sadly, a unit trust in this country is just like cash at hand for the unit trust holders. Bumper customers are mostly not accountants or lawyers and it looks like they have been swindled rather than protected.

I've been watching and listening to all these posts since day one, and pretty much kept my thoughts to myself.

Time to unleash a few of them.

The owners need to band together ASAP (like ... Now...) and go and lay charges at your Federal Police.

In NZ we have the "Serious Fraud Office" which investigates such matters. I'm sure your Federal Police has something similar. Someone needs to be appointed head of the owners group, and trundle in there and make a written complaint to the Police.

You customers were told (in writing) that your funds were being held in a Teust Account for the sole purpose of purchasing machines. This was fraudulent.

We're talking 100,000s of thousands of dollars here. Someone needs to be held accountable and hopefully some money (or some machines) may eventuate.

Sitting around waiting for a machine to show up isn't the course of action I would be following.

If someone had my $10,000 is be doing something about it, that's for sure.

I can't believe that you tough Aussie battlers aren't beating down the doors with pitchforks right now.

Someone needs to take some action now, one way or another.

Leadership is called for.

Who is going to man up and take the lead here?

Go forth!!

rd.

As the OP said,send your details to Jack with proof of purchase etc. Have sent mine and have contacted other casualties to do the same. Jack needs to formulate his own list and not rely on an altered list from bullshit action. Good chance Farrells list contains friends/family members that supposedly have bought and paid in full before anyone else.

And this post has escaped your memory

Quote Originally Posted by Lukex

I think the issue may be related to the rumour that one of the moderators has been promised one of the Bumper WoZ machines that have arrived (but are awaiting a payment for shipping/customs/taxes that hasn't been paid)?

The promise of one of 4 (with no others coming) might make some people do strange things??

I am not surprised you got banned after that.

yep if they did that it would be all over by now.........everyone would have a woz or money back

Aussie Arcade will ban anyone that attempts to expose any of their sponsors, no matter what the alleged problem is. Even posting photos of the alleged problem along with a detailed description of the problem will still incur the wrath of the moderators. Basically Aussie Arcade sell their souls to anyone who chooses to throw money at them, this isn't an isolated case. It is quite pathetic really.

The other Aussie forum, Aussie pinball on the other hand are entirely different and treat each person, sponsor, member on his or her merits.

Thankfully I did not pre-order a WOZ but I do know people that have and paid over $8k to Bumper Action for their WOZ machine. I have it on very very good authority that Bumper paid JJP a total of $150k which as has been mentioned earlier, leaves alot of people without their machine/s. Where has that money gone, well it is all hearsay but there seems to be a common theme of Bumper being bled dry by management. The person I know told me that he was never actually given a receipt and was trying to chase them up for a receipt several years later. Good chance he wouldn't be the only one with little to no proof from Bumper that he gave them money in the first place apart from his bank records.

This thread isn't about JJP not supplying machines. Of course no-one can expect them to supply something that hasn't been paid for but it may call into question JJP's choice of distributors, at least in Australia. I have also heard that a certain person who previously owned the rights to Bally/Wms is or will be the new Australian distributor.

So for you guys lucky enough not be involved in this, please take some pity on the OP. He is obviously frustrated to the point he is trying anything to get some sort of help, progress or resolution. If I was in shoes, I would be doing the same thing. There is a very real chance that these guys have just lost their hard earned cash thanks to the very undesirable management practices at Bumper Action. I won't even start on the staff that are owed various entitlements who saw the writing on the wall and left earlier. It is hard to run a business when the company vehicles are re-possessed, the power company threatens to turn the power off due to unpaid bills and there is basically no decent stock on the floor.

The whole Bumper Action story is very sad.

Sorry but I have to say that isn't correct mate.

I'd probably be in jail right now if I was one of the purchasers of WOZ through Bumper. Someone would be crazy to take my 10k and think they were going to walk away with it!

I'd have to agree with Illawarra Steelers here, there have been sponsors given the arse from there before.

I'd probably be in jail right now if I was one of the purchasers of WOZ through Bumper. Someone would be crazy to take my 10k and think they were going to walk away with it!

I couldn't agree more Spacies.

I would be giving this guy a call ......

chopper.jpg

People have paid for WOZ through an accredited JJP distributor.. said distributor has run off with the money.. its very simple.
Jack even directed potential customers to said distributor under HIS recommendations.
Once again.. lets read this all very specifically... JJP's OFFICIAL distributor in Australia was Bumper Action.
That means that JJP has allotted Bumper to act as middle man for them and has publically stated so.

Buck ends with Jack..

Now where are those JJP guys who were very keen to post how good the boards were when Homepin questioned them, why have none said anything?? quick to defend some issues but not others..... all is silent at JJP..

Whole debacle stinks to high heaven

Hey Pauloz,

Are you really suggesting that I was banned on AA some weeks ago for a post I made on Pinside yesterday?

Mate - you are a mental giant.

As has been mentioned before, JJP may not be able to legally make public statements. I wouldn't jump to any conclusion without having all the facts. Something does smell fishy, but the first place to go is the person that was given that hard earned cash.
I have no horse in this race.

good old chopper Reid........he wouldn't put up with this, if you don't know who he is check him out haha

I have no horse in this race either.. but a simple statement to say that all will be sorted would suffice.. lack of anything suggests otherwise. Its all very well posting videos of cartwheels when WOZ#1 leaves the factory.. the fluff is easy but now that the meat and potatoes needs to be dealt with its all quiet. They were representatives of JJP.. so JJP needs to speak up and fast.. quite simple - it all rests on Jack at the end the of day.
Knowing what we now know - is anyone still paying for HOBBIT up front?.. whats that saying about a fool and his money?

no chance on a hobbit, this is all bad publicity for these company's involved, might actually hurt their sales, I bet Stern are loving it haha

I am. If it's not true, the moderator in question should simply deny it... vehemently deny it if they must, and that will be that. Silencing someone with a lifetime ban simply for mentioning a rumor.. pretty crummy way to treat people.

What are you guys here in the States going to do if your game is never produced/shipped? Their could be a lot of risk associated with such early deposits. How many of you "Pre-Buyers" will venture down this road again? A real good question to consider is not how many ordered a game but who hasn't received a game. The "Pre-Buyers" should post date purchased and game number. You guys should post date shipped and date received. Don't you guys think you'd be better off tracking production and shipping? Other wise you might end up like the guys in Oz. Is this why so many have sold off their positions? Do other know something?

_{Post edited by absocountry2 : Ezejet has a new account and was banned forever. Ban vote sent.}

Most businesses rely on reputation, service, fulfilling orders and honesty to remain in business. Then there is Bumper.....oops, they have been liquidated.

Here's a nice anecdote:

I had one dealing with Bumper about 4 years ago and, needless to say, it was terrible.

A friend of mine asked a senior sales person at Bumper about my experience and was floored at the response he received.

It went along the lines of "I don't know why Luke is so upset, we have done a lot worse to others".

This business relied of customers being ill informed when buying - the first time buyer - unaware of forums etc. and unconnected to other pinheads were like lambs to the slaughter. Once you became aware of the scene and educated, you realised that you had been taken for a fool.

That leaves me another opportunity to post this clip.

The Bumper issue is Jack's to fix? So, if the distributor I bought through here in the US walks away with the money I gave him, I would go to Jack for a refund? My distrbutor bought a product and I bought from him. How is that the manufacturer's responsibility?

"Knowing what we now know"...?? What are you saying we now know?

Cognitive dissonance and gas-lighting are in effect here. Obviously funding a start-up is risky. Many have been rewarded. Still many more are awaiting their reward. I suspect all WOZ orders will be filled as long as Hobbit deposits are flowing. Whether JJP implodes before delivering ALL the machines that have been purchased depends on their overall profitability. If JJP is making money, we all should see a happy ending. If not, the music will definitely stop at some point.

I'm of the belief that the profitability question is still up in the air simply because the company is so young. Let's all just hope and pray for a happy ending. I just don't think people understand that cash on deposit has a matching liability of an unproduced game. Depending on the fully burdened cost of producing and distributing these games, JJP may or may not already be a profitable company. Only JJP can know and if their accounting isn't up to GAAP standards, even they may not know at this point. Gambling is fun when you win, not so much when you lose.

Yes JJP has some culpability in this mess. The problem is they now have no options until the findings in the insolvency are made final. It seems that the new Bumper is failing to hold up it's purchase agreement. Perhaps they didn't know what they were agreeing to. Perhaps they are just trying a mad cash grab. No one really knows because when liars, fools and scammers get to work, only the courts can decide and usually only the lawyers make out. If I was JJP, I'd probably write a check to the insolvency administrator and wash my hands of the entire mess. As it is, we don't know if JJP has the ability to write that check.

These are typical business problems and local laws determine what can and must be done. I am sure JJP is not forbidden from speaking on the matter, but what can they have productive to say? It's a wait and see situation for them if they don't want to write a check.

Dude they have resold and shipped folks games already. 1 poor Aussie WOZ head saw the thread of a person unboxing his number here in the states.

Do you know that Jack can legally make a comment or is this just assumptions that he can make a comment ? Do you know that Jack is able to say "that everything will be sorted out"? I don't think your statement that it is all up to Jack is correct. I think that it may be up to those in the legal profession, to sort this one out. They will direct the parties as to what they can and can't do. That is only speculation however, and I prefer to wait for the facts to be brought out.

Jack isn't going to ship pins to anyone until payment is made in full... US or abroad. He probably shipped the 4 (did that number come directly from Jack?) and is waiting to see what happens before doing anything else.

What does this have to do with the issue in Australia? I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with any other distributor. If Bumpers would have sent ALL of the money to Jack, there wouldn't be any issue, would there?

Jack is producing and shipping pins. I was at the site and saw first hand the pins getting built and shipped. If he stops for some reason, I may be out most, if not all, of my money. That's the risk I took. Same risk many others have taken with other people producing pins and taking deposits.

if jjp told me to buy the game through bumper, yes he has had a role to play in this ugly situation.

this whole trust fund bullshit should not have happened. jjp should have demanded all the money and a complete list of customers for the better part of a year.

bumper was holding a carrot on a stick for the remaining money owed jjp and for some reason jjp never saw the orders paid in full.

i hope this is settled and all the 75 machines make it to jjp customers in australia.

for a company relying so heavily on the trust and goodwill of depositors putting large sums of money down years in advance for a product, this is devastating. when confidence from the consumer is gone so might the jjp business plan.

disclaimer: what i have written is my understanding from what i have read on the issue.

Was it possible to buy a WoZ in Australia and not go through Bumper somehow? If so, how?

I believe that Bumper has been removed from Aussie Arcade as a $50 p.a. sponsor as of today.

The reason....Bumper Mk3 is a new entity and the sponsorship was for Bumper Mk2.

Free sponsorship and defending the indefensible for about a month for the company that has washed its hands of paid up WoZ customers.

Now it is just a matter of Rob Farrell paying his $50 for Bumper Mk3 right?

If Bumper Mk3 is not accepted as a sponsor - well that raises some concern.

AA mods say they want 'just the facts'. Will they act like judge, jury and executioner by not allowing Bumper Mk3 to sponsor. After all, we don't know (for sure) that they have done anything wrong yet?

It is a dilemma for AA..... best of luck with your decision.

Direct from JJP - A few people did this even after the exclusive distribution was announced.

Sounds like a few smart people. Sheesh - what a mess. I hope this somehow gets resolved soon. If somehow Wayno becomes the new distributor for Australia, that would just be a slap in the face on top of the kick to the nuts that has already occurred.

If I lived down under I would deal directly with JJP if I wanted one of his machines at this point.

Let's assume Bumper Amusements did indeed advance funds to JJP as down payment for an x number of pins. Let's also assume that Bumper Amusements subsequently filed for bankruptcy, AFTER transferring some or all of its assets to a third party. The Australian court-appointed bankruptcy trustees put in charge of the bankruptcy would be in charge of Bumper Amusements' accounts payables/receivables and other assets/liabilities throughout the proceedings, nobody else.

That being the case, if I were JJP, I would only deal with the court-appointed trustees, and nobody else, AFTER making sure that I can collect against the advanced money that I'm holding for all of my real and perceived losses resulting from the cancellation of the order. Conversely, if there should be no cancellation, I would only deliver a lesser exact number of pins (corresponding to the funds that I'm holding and within the terms of the sales agreement) only to the court-appointed trustees, nobody else.

That is not the way it works. Lets say I go to the GM website and try to buy a car,what will they do? They will direct me to a local distributor/dealer. Each distributor is its own business and ordering a car from the local distributor does not allow that person to think they have a deal with GM, they made a deal with a local place.

GM, or JJP in this case owes $150k in machines or $ to old Bumper. old Bumper may have a contract with new Bumper to take the machines and cash, but that does not seem to involve JJP with the details we know. If I were JJP I would be in court to see who stuff goes to, old or new. It seems like that is where it is at because nobody is saying much. That usually means legal in process.

JJP will be responsible for warranty on the machines once out like GM also.

How about this for a solution??..

Jersey Jack Pinball ceases trading, liquidates and opens as new entity Jersey Jacks Pinballs.

Problem solved.. we can all go home

And it is that easy. Scary stuff.

Not really fussed with the idea about losing my money but what can I really do about it.

Have ordered another machine from JJP direct so at least I will get a WOZ and if by some miracle, I end up getting the one I bought from Bumper, I will sell it or take it down the beach.

i get the car analogy, but jjp, unlike gm, takes customer orders as well. jjp decides who will represent their product as a distributor. as a company i would want to carefully pick who i partner with.

this is a disaster for the oz customers and jjp. if jjp dealt directly with all oz customers, instead of pointing them to bumper, this debacle would never have come to pass.

jjp should shoulder some blame for their poor choice in who they partnered with in australia.

if I buy a car through an appointed dealer and they go bust, I still get my car from manufacturer as they were the appointed agents.. in other words the car manufacturers employees

Did they really have a choice, I don't think any of the larger distributors who have solid reputations would have been jumping at the thing at the time. Think about it pay a deposit on machine that it yet to be build by a new company that had not commercially produced a machine. They would be sitting back now thinking glad I didn't get involved in this train wreck.