(Topic ID: 244920)

2518-35 booting problem.


By wugly

3 months ago



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  • 16 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 days ago by Quench
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RectifierBoard_PinsAC.jpg

#1 3 months ago

had a corrosion problem on a harlem globetrotters. rebuilt the board using a corrosion repair kit and the game worked fine. decided to write new roms using 2732 with freeplay code, I changed the jumpers. I believe I got everything right. tried to boot the game and the game wouldn't start. game is at friends house and I think the led came on for a moment then went off. took board home and tried to get it to start at home on test bench using a test grade power supply not a pc power supply. If I take off the 12 volt power from tp2 then reattach I get the 6 blinks. seven if I put in the voltage for tp3. what could I have broken during this switch or are the proms causing me reset problems?

#2 3 months ago
Quoted from wugly:

had a corrosion problem on a harlem globetrotters. rebuilt the board using a corrosion repair kit and the game worked fine. decided to write new roms using 2732 with freeplay code, I changed the jumpers. I believe I got everything right. tried to boot the game and the game wouldn't start. game is at friends house and I think the led came on for a moment then went off. took board home and tried to get it to start at home on test bench using a test grade power supply not a pc power supply. If I take off the 12 volt power from tp2 then reattach I get the 6 blinks. seven if I put in the voltage for tp3. what could I have broken during this switch or are the proms causing me reset problems?

The bally MPU's power on reset was designed around how the voltages come up in a linear power supply. A PC power supply may not reset the board properly and leave you with a locked on LED.

If you get all the flashes by manually resetting then the MPU is probably OK unless there is some kind of reset problem beyond that you are using a PC power supply.

You can gently flex on the MPU and chips while you have it on the bench to see if it locks up. Otherwise check the voltages using the test points of the MPU while it is in the game. Taking the board out may have taken out a marginal connector.

#3 3 months ago

checked the test points on the mpu while it was in the game and everything was correct

#4 3 months ago
Quoted from wugly:

checked the test points on the mpu while it was in the game and everything was correct

Perhaps the reset section is damaged. With the 12v off of the MPU the reset (cpu pin 40) should be low, 0v. With the 12v connected it should go high. With a linear power supply you should see p40 of the CPU be low right when you power up the game and then go high a moment later once the 12v raises high enough.

You are in pretty good shape if you get 6 flashes on the bench. Really not that much else to lock up the mpu while in the game vs bench top.

#5 3 months ago

I had the reset circuit working before I changed the rams to 2732. I re configured the jumpers and the game would not go into reset. there is no battery on it. the reset circuit was repaired using a rebuild kit the first time to get it to work. grounding pin 40 on u9 makes the game boot.I have proper voltages on 5 volts and 12.8 on 12 volt line. Have replaced q1 and q5. measured voltage drop through vr1 approximately 8.2 volts. r1 r3 r2 junction 2.6. q1 base .7. q1 collector .03 I was expecting .3. base q5 4.8. tested cr5 and cr7 out circuit and they function c2 and c13 seem to be close to spec out of circuit. What could be wrong and what is the theory of operation.r1 r2 r3 gnding resets board

#6 3 months ago

Can not figure out why the board refuses to boot in the pinball machine. I check the test points on the mpu board and driver board and get 5.03 volts. the mpu gets 13.6 volts tp2. 5.03 on tp1 and 5. game flickers and does not startup when only j4 connector hooked up. take the board out of game and it boots on a test bench setup 6 times and I get the seventh if I rig the 22 volts up too it. ran power in thru the pins instead of test points on bench to check that off the list. reconverted the board back to original roms and it boots only on the bench. found out my friend replaced the plug on the game after we took a working board out and he had reversed the hot and neutral before my first test after rewiring the mpu, power looked good then. We changed the wiring to the correct configuration but the board still only boots on test bench and not in game. nothing else connected but j4 and I unplugged the sound card. thinking about rebuilding the solenoid driver voltage regulator board. put meter on ac voltage to test 5 volt and I got an intitial reading of .4 which cycle down to 0

#7 3 months ago
Quoted from wugly:

Can not figure out why the board refuses to boot in the pinball machine. I check the test points on the mpu board and driver board and get 5.03 volts. the mpu gets 13.6 volts tp2. 5.03 on tp1 and 5. game flickers and does not startup when only j4 connector hooked up. take the board out of game and it boots on a test bench setup 6 times and I get the seventh if I rig the 22 volts up too it. ran power in thru the pins instead of test points on bench to check that off the list. reconverted the board back to original roms and it boots only on the bench. found out my friend replaced the plug on the game after we took a working board out and he had reversed the hot and neutral before my first test after rewiring the mpu, power looked good then. We changed the wiring to the correct configuration but the board still only boots on test bench and not in game. nothing else connected but j4 and I unplugged the sound card. thinking about rebuilding the solenoid driver voltage regulator board. put meter on ac voltage to test 5 volt and I got an intitial reading of .4 which cycle down to 0

Does it boot in the game if you manually put the MPU into reset?

Make sure the zero crossing circuit is working okay and nothing shorting to adjacent pins. I have seen a MPU only boot on the bench but not in a game because the zero cross input track going to the PIA was shorted to something. It only caused a problem when the 43v was attached to J4. The zero cross input to PIA has a long track that goes right next to a bunch of socket pins that can be shorted out.

#8 3 months ago

manually shorting pin 40 on u9 does not cause a reboot it flickers then stops

1 week later
#9 84 days ago

flicker then stop means it's not reading all the rom code or it's failing the checksum. Based on your other symptoms and sometimes it gets farther and sometimes it doesn't there's probably some corrosion that still needs to be cleaned up or your sockets are flaky (I'm betting more on the corrosion, though). The behavior of random stuff happening is pointing towards that.

#10 84 days ago

it always boots ouside the machine it always fails inside the game. will try cleaning the header pins more though

#11 84 days ago
Quoted from wugly:

rebuilt the board using a corrosion repair kit and the game worked fine. decided to write new roms using 2732 with freeplay code...
tried to boot the game and the game wouldn't start.

Quoted from wugly:

it always boots ouside the machine it always fails inside the game.

What EPROM programmer are you using? Did you select a matching manufacturer/chip type or just generic for the type?

Might be that the freeplay EPROMs you programmed didn't get enough charge in some cells leaving them borderline. The EPROMs might work on your test bench power supply because i.e. it has a slightly higher voltage compared to the supply in the actual game.

Try reprogramming the EPROMs without erasing them using the same data they were programmed with so the EPROM cells get a deeper charge.

2 months later
#12 23 days ago

just noticed the last message. I rewired the board back to original strapping and put the old roms back in and it booted on bench not in game. the game is at a friends house so I can only work on it in bursts and lately he has been dealing with bad health for his parents and we have been unable to work on it. last thing I did was recapped his power driver board. same problem. the test points all read good bt was wondering while looking at the schematics. can you get 5 volts on the mpu if you don't have 5 volts going to the board. I thought there was a crossover from unregulated 11.9 volts to +5 through cr7, when I get a chance I am definitly going to double check the wire going to the mpu, i have only been reading at test point. outside the game I have put power in through the pins them selves to test them instead of test points but never checked the wires to the connectors.

2 weeks later
#13 9 days ago

the problem I am having working on this board is that it is at a friends house and he has been unable to have to come over to fix it on a regular basis. the board boots fine when I place it in a test rig with 5 volts and 12 volts. I have replaced the caps on the solenoid regulator board and have checked the power coming down the wires and the 5 volts is clean with no ripple. the 11.9 volt unregulated though I have discovered it running at base line of 15 volt with a ripple that takes it to 16 volts. could this higher voltage cause the game to not boot? the voltage coming out of the rectifier board is also baseline 15 with a ripple that takes it to 16 volts. Should I correct this and if I do how should I do it. when the game is in the pinball I get the initial first flicker and then the led goes dead. outside the game on external power I get flicker then 6 flashes.

#14 6 days ago
Quoted from wugly:

the 11.9 volt unregulated though I have discovered it running at base line of 15

This is a bit misleading on Ballys behalf. That voltage rail coming off the rectifier board will measure around 12 volts when the solenoid driver board is *disconnected*. When the solenoid driver board is connected, the capacitor at C23 filters most of the DC ripple and brings the voltage up anywhere between 14 to 17 volts. Your reading of 15 volts is fine.

Quoted from wugly:

I have discovered it running at base line of 15 volt with a ripple that takes it to 16 volts.

Typical ripple I see is between 0.2 to 0.3 volts. If you're getting 1 volt ripple, it's higher than normal. What kind of capacitor did you install at C23 on the solenoid driver board?

Quoted from wugly:

when the game is in the pinball I get the initial first flicker and then the led goes dead. outside the game on external power I get flicker then 6 flashes.

Have you got a logic probe or oscilloscope? Is there any bus activity after the flicker?

Quoted from wugly:

the problem I am having working on this board is that it is at a friends house

It might be worth your while taking the head home with you so you can diagnose at your will. You don't need the cabinet/playfield to fault find this. You'll just need to make a power plug connector that plugs straight into the J2 connector on the rectifier board. Leave the backglass in a safe secure place where it won't meet any accidents.

BTW, can you ask one of the moderators to move your thread to the early 80's solid state subforum? I don't follow the generic tech forum much.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/tech-early-80s-solid-state

#15 6 days ago

just double checking pin 6 and 7 for inputing ac power correct?

#16 6 days ago
Quoted from wugly:

just double checking pin 6 and 7 for inputing ac power correct?

Yes,
Line AC Active goes to J2 pin 6
Line AC Neutral goes to J2 pin 7
Line Ground goes to J2 pin 10

Suffice to say be careful and triple check your work.

Below pin numbers for reference.

RectifierBoard_PinsAC.jpg

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