I am rebuilding a Xenon and I have the following issues that I can't seem to solve:
-Two pop bumpers firing at once
-Background sounds cut out once a solenoid has been activated
-Top saucer coil buzzes during coil check, when activated, but not during gameplay
Please help!
Quoted from GKW:-Background sounds cut out once a solenoid has been activated
The sound is cut off by the rollover switch at the Exit Chamber. Could be that the contacts are too close and are closing by vibration. Could be a leaky cap on the rollover switch.
Quoted from GKW:I am rebuilding a Xenon and I have the following issues that I can't seem to solve:
-Two pop bumpers firing at once
-Background sounds cut out once a solenoid has been activated
-Top saucer coil buzzes during coil check, when activated, but not during gameplay
Please help!
Do the two pops fire at the same time in test mode or just during play?
Quoted from bobukcat:Do the two pops fire at the same time in test mode or just during play?
I get two pop bumpers at the same time during game play and during test mode. It is only the lower pop bumper, when actuated, that causes the one directly behind it to fire.
I just played another test game. The sound doesn't just cut out when the first solenoid is activated. I touched several switches, by-passing any solenoid action, and the sound cut out after a while. It didn't seem to matter which switch, it just cut out. Also, on ball 3, the background sound came back before I launched the ball.
Update: I swapped out the lower pop bumper coil and put a new transistor and diode on it; no change. I replaced all of the caps on the rollover switches; no change. I am running out of ideas, other than swapping-out the wiring harness and components as a hail Mary, which I do not want to do.
Quoted from GKW:I've just discovered another issue. When I get to multi-ball, the play is over after the first ball drains.
do a switch matrix test , could be a switch under the apron for muliball prob , can check pop bumper switches as well
you said your rebuilding it , is the ground braid for the head attached ? , not sure why background sound cuts out.
The ground braid is attached. All switches are correct and correspond with their number during switch test, same with the coils.
So, after much work and inspection, here is where I am at:
-Top saucer coil buzzes, but only during coil test.
-Sound cuts out immediately after the first coil is activated. I have manually by-passed the coils and just touching a few switches will make the background sound cut out. The sound is intermittent and will come back after a while. During a test game, the background sound came back during the third ball, but immediately went out after coil, or switch activation.
-Two pop bumpers are firing at once. It happens during gameplay and during test mode.
-Multi-ball works fine, but after the first ball drains, the gameplay is over.
I swapped out the playfield previously. The original playfield worked 100%, but it was worn out, hence the playfield swap. I am operating an ultimate MPU and an ultimate Solenoid Driver Board. I have swapped both out with original boards and get the same results. The new playfield has a Frankensteined wiring harness. I have done continuity checks to ensure that power is getting from point A to point B. I have meticulously checked the wiring to ensure that there are no breaks, cracks, etc. I may be over-looking some small detail, but I will keep looking.
I have replaced most of the caps, diodes and transistors under the playfield: The pop bumpers, roll-over switches, and stand-up targets have been done.
I am stumped!
Please help!
The sound cutting out and coming back may be related to poor connections on the sound board, did you replace the IDC connectors with molex and replace the header pins? Does wiggling the connectors or harnesses in the backbox cause any sound issues? Does speech continue to work when the background sound cuts out? Start a game, hit some switches until the sound cuts out then hit the test button on the speech board, does it go through all the speech clips properly?
For the two pop bumpers firing simultaneously: you need to isolate it to the board or playfield, start a game and briefly ground the transistor tab for either one of the two that fire together, do they still fire together? If yes you have a playfield wiring problem (both drives are wired to the same drive circuit), if not you have a board problem. Since you said you swapped boards and still had the problem I'm guessing it's the playfield. The pops will fire in test mode if their switches are activated though and those switches are not part of the matrix (there is a separate switch that is for scoring) so be absolutely sure you don't just have two very close switch stacks that trigger from the vibration of the other pop going off.
switch test is clear with both balls under apron ?
I removed both balls and it clears (with drop targets up) drain one ball & #8 switch closes , then I flick that over towards the shooter lane and the #2 switch closes. with both balls drained the #8 switch doesn't show til #2 switch is cleared
I had noticed in switch test mode, the pops solonoids would fire if I closed the pop-skirt, I wonder if a diode wired backwards would be the culprit
Quoted from chas10e:switch test is clear with both balls under apron ?
I removed both balls and it clears (with drop targets up) drain one ball & #8 switch closes , then I flick that over towards the shooter lane and the #2 switch closes. with both balls drained the #8 switch doesn't show til #2 switch is cleared
I had noticed in switch test mode, the pops solonoids would fire if I closed the pop-skirt, I wonder if a diode wired backwards would be the culprit
I don't think a reversed diode would cause this but I could be wrong. The older SS games (from all manufacturers) have two switches for pops and slings, the first is not part of the matrix and fires the coil (through a transistor), the second is part of the matrix, is for scoring / sound and is activated by the mechanism (pop or sling) at the end of travel.
All of the header pins on the Sounds Plus and Vocalizer boards have been changed. All of the connectors have been changed and all have been re-pinned. I have not tried testing the sound board, while sound is out; I will try that.
When performing the switch test, all balls have been removed and each switch was manually actuated several times. All check good.
I have narrowed the pop bumper issues to the playfield, since the old playfield worked 100%. I did find that there is a grounding issue while checking the lamp sockets out. When I was checking the MOTA 25k lamp, I touched the base and one of the pop bumpers fired. This lamp works now, as it was a bad SCR. I did go back and use the lamp socket tester on this socket and it fired the pop bumper. I have not found any smoking gun on why this is occurring.
I have replaced most of the transistors, diodes and caps. I have been thinking about replacing the diodes on the pop bumpers, as I was thinking that a bad, or reversed diode could be the culprit. Please give me some help on troubleshooting procedures, especially finding a short.
Thank you all for the suggestions.
Again, I seriously doubt a bad diode could cause this but I could be wrong because I've never worked on this kind of problem myself before. I would probably start by disconnecting the trigger switch for one of the pops completely and ensure the problem continues. I would then start doing continuity tests from the drive transistor for each pop all the way down to the actual coil (with power off, of course). The fact that you have a lamp socket causing them to fire is very strange to me, were you touching the side rail or anything when you did that? I have to wonder if you have a wire pinched under the lamp common braid that is stapled to the pf. I can pull the PF up on my Xenon and take some pictures of the pops wiring tomorrow if that might help. Good luck and bump hoping someone with more experience than me working on this era game (wouldn't take much) chimes in with more ideas on your sound and game over problems too.
I did disconnect the switch for the lower pop bumper and the problem did not follow.
I was not touching anything but the wire braid inside the cabinet and the lamp socket when I tested it.
I have the old playfield to go by, and since it was working 100%, I can use that as a template.
I will go over everything again and see if I can find a smoking gun. I really hate to do another swap, because of the problems that usually follow. I would like to find out what's wrong with what I have. Thanks for the response!
with an ultimate MPU board I had sound problems once because of the clock jumper was set wrong. I didn't have proper voice from power up. I forget if it had any effect on background sound
you can turn background feature off in bookkeeping ; bookkeeping position #18; 00= chimes without background ; 01 = chimes with background ; 02 = noise(voice) without background ; 03= noise(voice) with background
hopefully it's something as simple as that
I did find the problem with the coil firing when I touched a lamp socket. The lamp socket in question was touching the side saucer kicker mechanism. Fixed that.
I had a Playboy that played higher pitched tunes, due to the ultimate MPU. I don't think that this is the problem here, though. The old playfield worked fine and the sounds were spot on. Could be that this new playfield has a ghost that is causing a reaction with the MPU, maybe?
Today, I have been working on the two pop bumpers at once and I can't figure this out and it is driving me crazy! I rewired both pop bumpers in question, but nothing! I didn't re-wire the switches, since the problem followed during the coil test, with one of the switches removed. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the switches. I could be wrong!
BTW, I didn't find any pinched or crimped wires. I carefully examined every inch of the wiring and ground wire, but couldn't find anything.
White flag is up! I give up.
I am swapping the wiring harness from the old (working) playfield and putting it on the playfield in the machine. At least I know that it worked 100%. Sorry for anyone looking for definitive answers.
perhaps edit the title of this thread as "still unresolved" ...
perhaps identify the trifericon pins at the header for the two individual pops and remove one at a time to isolate that issue
do both pop switches have a separate indication in the credit window ? (#37 bottom #38 middle)
I keep checking back on this to see if any progress has been made, I'm still puzzled by the pop bumper thing because I think it should be the easiest problem to isolate. Still curious what happens if you go in and ground the tab of the individual drive transistors briefly and if both pops still fire when only one of them is grounded. Good luck OP!!
I tried different boards (solenoid driver and MPU) and the problems followed. I rigged new wires from the pop bumpers to the solenoid driver board. I re-pinned all of the connectors. Everything I tried was in vain. The one problem that confounded me the most was the sound cutting out and coming back. I think that my Frankenstein wiring harness was the culprit, even though I shook it out thoroughly. Thank you for your assistance! It's time to move on. Hopefully, the old (100%) working wiring harness didn't develop any issues, or I will be back on this post!
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