(Topic ID: 280057)

Williams system 9 - Sorcerer - all displays black.

By amphicar4fun

3 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

20201021_185748 (resized).jpg
20201021_185758 (resized).jpg
20201021_185826 (resized).jpg
20201021_185837 (resized).jpg
20201021_185925 (resized).jpg
20201021_190034 (resized).jpg
#1 3 years ago

Hello guys,

I hope you can help me troubleshooting this issue on all of my displays.

I have searched the database, but did not find any case like mine. I have measured the high voltage arriving at the master display, and I have 5vdc, -104vdc and 104vdc, so my high voltage looks ok.

When I measured directly after the resistors that deliver the voltage to the anode and cathode.of the displays, I got 72vcd and -79vdc.

What do you think?

Thank you in advance for your help!

Jacques

20201021_185748 (resized).jpg20201021_185748 (resized).jpg20201021_185758 (resized).jpg20201021_185758 (resized).jpg20201021_185826 (resized).jpg20201021_185826 (resized).jpg20201021_185837 (resized).jpg20201021_185837 (resized).jpg20201021_185925 (resized).jpg20201021_185925 (resized).jpg20201021_190034 (resized).jpg20201021_190034 (resized).jpg
#2 3 years ago

High voltage is only half the equation with these displays. You need the presence of high voltage to illuminate the displays. If you have the correct high voltage on the glass displays, then you need to troubleshoot the logic circuits that "tell" the displays to turn on digits. More than half the time faulty cables are at fault.

#3 3 years ago

Thank you wayout440, for your comment. I thought that once I have high voltage on the displays, I should have at least some glare on them, or the points illuminated. It's normal to have 100+ volts on the input of the master display card, but after the resistors (just before anode and catode) only 72volts? That voltage will be enough to make the displays work? The manual shows 100v on the displays.

#4 3 years ago

That voltage does seem a low. The question is how low can you go and still have the displays operate? I don't have one of these games to refer to. There are display saver mod boards and a zener diode modification that are usually set to drop the supply to 91VDC. Have you ever tested any of these displays in another game to prove they actually work and are not outgassed?

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

That voltage does seem a low. The question is how low can you go and still have the displays operate? I don't have one of these games to refer to. There are display saver mod boards and a zener diode modification that are usually set to drop the supply to 91VDC. Have you ever tested any of these displays in another game to prove they actually work and are not outgassed?

The full voltage swing is 200v stock, and 180v with the zener mod to 91v. They didn't go directly to the 180 like Bally/Stern did because it's apparently harder to build that type of supply vs. the positive/negative - WMS displays just aren't referenced to ground.

Plasma displays can work with as low as 175v or so, and maybe down to 160. I run my bally/stern displays with the factory recommended 190v and they're fine.

#6 3 years ago

Thank you for the input guys. Unfortunately I don't have any other system 9 to test this displays, but since I got the machine like that, and is in very rough shape, all displays out of gas is a real possibility. If the high voltage is ok, but the logic part is not working, I should see something on the displays, like a dot or some glare? There is any way to test one display on the bench? Just to see if it comes alive?

#7 3 years ago

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to test outside of a game, and you'd probably spend more money and time building a jig than buying new LED displays.

You really need a known reference to determine the fault: known good displays to plug into the game, or a known good game to plug the displays into, so you could determine which is at fault.

Most displays will have a small glow or slightly illuminated spot when they are getting high voltage, and it is sometimes difficult to see that. It's also not a definite indication that the display is functional.

#8 3 years ago

Not sure if this is you're issue. But when I remove the segment cable, J7, from the master display, I end up with the same results, blank displays. It was also very tough for me to tell if any light was being generated from them at this point as well.

J7 connects to 1J3 on the cpu. Bad connection somewhere?

Schematics show that the blanking signal also travels through these connectors. I assume that signal would also be needed to light the displays?

#9 3 years ago

They also work in system 7 and early 11s.

#10 3 years ago

Thank you for your comments guys. I removed conector j7 and buzzed all wires to the CPU, but all wires were good. The only pinballs with displays I have are system 6 - blackout, and stern f2k. I'll buy one know good used display to test.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from amphicar4fun:

Unfortunately I don't have any other system 9 to test this displays, but since I got the machine like that, and is in very rough shape,

Is the MPU booting?

#12 3 years ago

Hello Brewchap, yes the machine works perfectly, just missing the displays. What gets me more confused is that there is high tension on the displays, but they have no glare at all. My f2k, or nitro ground shaker, as soon as you power the machine on, while the CPU is booting, have glare on all displays, and even the points are lighted. When the CPU finished the boot, and the logical part starts, the digits appear.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 22.50
$ 749.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 65.00
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 36.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Watertown, MA

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-system-9-sorcerer-all-displays-black- and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.