A lot of the TMNT animations are pretty decent, extra ball, jackpots, the various weapon hurry up ones I think are especially good, others are lacking or just need more frames/transitions or something, I think revisiting the April model would be the biggest bang for your buck on TMNT.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, my biggest issue with the Infinity Quest animations were the times where the animations didn't convey the information well. Look how little fan fare there is for this 50 mil jackpot!

Soul Gem Jackpot (resized).png

If you're going to be that reductive, the LCD screen is just derivative of the DMD.

What innovation could be done on the video screen anyhow? "better animations" is not innovation or constructive criticism

Wow that that is embarrassingly bad, even just the basics of legibility its a complete disaster. Stern doesn't even have the basics of layout sorted out yet, let alone animation.

Nobody actually wants innovation. Pinball is not about innovation. That’s why in every “innovation” thread the suggestions have already been done before (pinball needs more magnets and lower playfields!!! Swappable playfields are the future!!!) or are so ridiculous they don’t warrant discussion (why isn’t there smoke and fire inside my game?!)

You should find a new hobby. Pinball is pinball. Stop begging for it to be something else.

Maybe a joystick in the next pinball evolution ?

LOL, speak for yourself.

Then everyone will nag "too much innovation"

There is innovation. People just don't appreciate innovations because they reduce them into simpler component parts that they sorta recognize.

"Well AIQ is just the spinning platter from Safecracker with some new velocity detection, which uses the raising mech from Cirqus Voltaire, and it feeds a subway with some old Flight 2000 mechs they probably still had laying around the factory" - some asshole

You think pinball should be video games and movies. Also playfields aren't innovative enough. Got it.

Been done. Caveman by Gottlieb.

LTG : )

Seems kinda silly to not take notes from larger entertainment titans. Pinball doesn't need to "be video games" to adapt in more mode based play, pinball doesn't "need to be movies" to incorporate more cinematic animations, but I think most people agree these things have improved pinball overall.

Pinball doesn't get the chance to innovate in the same ways because the risk is too high, if a 9k pinball machine totally flops it could fold an entire company. A fully software 10 dollar game though? Shoot for the moon, and see what sticks. Doesn't mean pinball doesn't benefit from innovation, just that it has to be more cautious with it.

Its the least important part of pinball for me. Some of my fav games are alpha numeric, couldn't care less. Thats not saying I don't appreciate the new displays and good animations but it would never affect my decision to buy a game.

My thoughts exactly. The new displays are awesome, but aren't what I care about when it comes to pinball.
Personally. I'd much rather see the companies spend their development money on more mechanical features for the playfied, rather than over the top graphics.

I kinda agree, graphics on the screen don't matter that much to me. That being said I want to see innovation that having a full size screen will allow. Online!! Leaderboards, achievements, collectibles, friends lists, weekly challenges (Ok let be realistic how about quarterly) sure you could probably half ass this and make it work on a DMD but you really need a proper screen to convey the information required. Sterns screen looks pretty ass and I would like to see a little improvement graphically but its lower priority to me than everything else.

These are all terrible fucking ideas!!!

DOn't you understand that a pinball company will ONLY spend time and resources and something that will provide a return on investment? None of these dumb suggestions would increase stern's sales by ONE UNIT. It would be a complete waste of time and money.

Why do you hate Stern and want them to go out of business?

Ha ha, you have no idea how this stuff works and how massively they increase profits on minor investments. History, mathematics and human biology have proven this model. It cracks me up that you consider yourself an expert on these areas.

Dopamine, tap, tap, tap

Would you be willing to pay a subscription for any of these features? Like $5 a month? Stern probably wouldn't do something like this without incentive, but being able to make continued revenue off their customers (as opposed to needing to sell them an entirely new machine all the time) seems pretty persuasive.

Adding those things might not be for everyone, but they certainly do add value to the product for some consumers. And many of those implementations, once broadly done, could be implemented in all their games going forward for relatively little cost.

People keep complaining about prices going up and they just want some value added. Stern putting out something like DJ Mode or whatever is a good example of this. It took a bit of work to code it, now it's relatively low effort to put into all their games, and even if it's rarely used...a few people will get some value out of this low cost addition.

Anyhow. It just doesn't make sense to me how people are so anti-online features just because they don't personally value them. Or if it is really taking up that many resources at a company like Stern.

ha ha .

You are the guy who said stern hiring more code people wouldn't help them code faster. And then suddenly more code got done because they hired more people.

The absolute worst here are the "experts" who "work in software" - a claim probably half of us could reasonably adopt just to make a point - thinking they could run Stern better than the guys who have kept them in the tumultous pinball biz for 33 years.

You seem to have it figured out; Stern is leaving millions on the table by refusing to spend their time on "online leaderboards!" and other exciting advancements that wouldn't impress your average grandmother. You should quit your job and muscle your way into the door with these fantastic unit-shifting breakthrough ideas! When you convince them of the untold wealth that could be their with just a couple minor software tweaks, they'll be sure to put the "Darscot Plan" into effect and revolutionize the industry!

A "Friend's List?" In Pinball!?!?!?!? WOw, consider my mind blown. I've always thought I'd enjoy playing pinball more if it were also Facebook. Will there be "likes?!"

This model even without subscription is proven to have significant impact on iterative products. They will increase the sale of your next release. Subscription is great for the balance sheet and shareholders but it is much further down the road.

This is to Levi, Ha ha I love that all these years later you role out that argument about more coders and still can't grasp the concept that having ten people swinging a hammer at a single nail won't drive it home any faster.

Do you have examples you could share? I'd love to learn more about that.

Because I'm playing pinball, not watching a movie or a video game. Seriously guys come on. How often are you staring at the screen? These gripe threads are almost comical. Hell I honestly think the JJP games have too much crap on them. I wanna see what I should be doing, score, and what ball I'm on in a clear concise manner. That's it. I'm watching the ball and flipping..not watching a movie.

"Leaderboards, achievements, collectibles, friends lists, weekly challenges"

Those things would actually do the complete opposite of what you speak of and only increase pinball popularity + sales.

ha ha I love that after all these years you don't understand that Stern has more than 1 nail to hammer at a time. Judging by the amount of games they put out, they have at least 6 nails.

A pin as far is software is very small, all I said all those years ago throwing bodies at software may not solve the problem. Here you are with no reasonable retort or counter point so your just rolling it out again.

Don't forget messaging, voice activation and video conference calls, right?

As if the plague of social media and technology hasn't infected enough things, now its gotta claim pinball machines too.

WEEKLY CHALLENGES?!

Holy shit this could change everything!

In general terms I can explain how it works but professionally I could not provide you any details. Shoot me a PM, if you want to chat about the basics.

Imagine Call of Duty with leaderboards, stat tracking, and weekly challenges?! That would sure be something, probably best though to keep it offline. IT Technogies, maker of Golden Tee, should probably do away with all that crap too.

He says on the pinball social media
I totally get your point though, I imagine if they did online features I'd end up caring about 5% of them, but I think what Multimorphic is doing with online is pretty cool, haven't used it myself though

Sometimes I wonder if Stern should make an integrated streaming topper. Just the complete package with a camera on the playfield, a camera pointed at the player, and direct audio/video out. Add a laptop and go to town.

It's not that hard to make your own streaming rig, but anyone who has been in the hobby knows that there is no shortage of people who rather just throw money at Stern.

*Standing at pinball machine watching someone else playing their machine via video conference, waiting patiently to hit the lock bar button to give a LIKE if they hit a jackpot.*

That's some good innovation right there. Sounds fun.

Weekly challenges:

Siri: "Hit loop 10 times in a row for a trophy"

Everyone: *takes off glass*

A discussion forum doesnt really equate to social media exposure, but yeah it can get bad enough.

None of those things are pinball. All of those things are useless in pinball because every machine is different and cheating is impossibly easy.

Why do you insist on saying that things that work on video games will work with pinball, which is different in every single way than a video game?

Have you ever played pinball, or owned a pinball machine?

Oktoberfest! has tap it, a Tapper spin off video mode, and its actually quite good.

Yet people clearly don't care. They just want to play with their friends

The irony here is comedy gold, if you are going to take the glass off and cheat to earn a weekly challenge, your already a fish on the line. This is exactly why these types of features exist.

Sorry dude. Not interested in being one of your "fish on the line." My point is show how meaningless it really is.

Fake trophies and 'likes' may work for cheap apps and video games but to apply it to pinball is absurd.

Pinball doesnt need any of this crap.

If you already addicted and completely in love with pinball, I agree with you, this functionality is meaningless and does not add value for you. If as a business you want to sell more machines and get more people in love with pinball this functionality is proven to do that.

I used to have a similar complaint in the last days of the DMD. It was looking pretty old and outdated. The change to LCDs was a nice move for the industry, but we don't need them to further upgrade to video game or movie quality.

You're applying proven methods among average consumers who own smartphones and play cheap games.

Most people who typically buy and own pinball machines are not your average consumer.

Is the average consumer willing to work and maintain their machine? Let alone drop 7...8...10k for something that has features they already have on their phone, computer, television, car...?

There has always been this obsession on pinside with bringing pinball into the mainstream and trying to make it more popular.

It will never translate well into the mainstream. For nearly 100 years, it never has. Its pinball. You either like it or you don't. It doesnt need to adapt to anything.

There are people who enjoy chess and bowling. It's like trying to say those things arent good enough so they need to be more innovative too.

This isn't for the mainstream. Especially at the potentially high(er) cost of these machines. Stern would be out of business.

This is not high cost functionality, this is very basic stuff. You guys that are so against this are making it out to be way more than it is. Is it really such a bad idea to add some achievements to a pin or allow for a friends list. Even peer to peer multiplayer on a pin would be very minor. This is early nineties technology not exactly cutting edge stuff. This is the kind of project you assign to a co-op.

Basic? You are talking about a whole list of new features that require new hardware, tons of new software, internet connectivity, security, server hosting, etc. You make it sound like they could knock it out in a weekend in their spare time.

It's nice to see someone else that isnt obsessed with trying to make pinball "mainstream". Never gonna happen

It's a niche hobby. Always has been always will be and that's probably one of the reasons I like it as much as I do.

Yes, very basic stuff such as leaderboards, trophies, awards, etc, no doubt have a quality to them in the eyes of people who play video games and phone apps. But if you take those things and apply them to pinball and expect the general target audience to follow, it's a formula for disaster.

No one is going to say "ya know, I didnt really think pinball machines were all that great, but now they have leaderboards and friend lists, so I think I'm gonna go buy one now."

No matter what level of technology is being considered here, at the end of the day, were talking about a pinball machine made up of circuit boards, mechanisms, wires, coils, etc.

No consumer off the street is going to have the patience when something goes wrong, despite how minor the issue may be. No one outside of this hobby is willing to spend money and time for those kind of things.

Average consumers in todays world want everything instant and on demand. No waiting. That's how everything is marketed to us. Our society is fucked in the head because of it, but that's a rant for another time.

I haven’t gone through all of the responses so maybe someone else has posted the answer.

Decent cell-shaded 3D animations are expensive. Cinema grade animations are in the +$100k/minute range.... with some of it pushing 7 digits a minute.

I have produced some ok-ish quality 2d animation projects and it costs are $2500/min but once you move into 3D it would be a struggle to get it under $10k-20k/minute (Like the trex multiball for jp2).

I’d guess that each game would have 20 to 30 minutes of animation once you factor in attract mode and all of the other modes....