(Topic ID: 240944)

Which is more innovative? Wonka or Dialed In


By delt31

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by trilogybeer
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Topic poll

“Which Pinball is more innovative? NOT which is better”

  • Wonka 15 votes
    22%
  • Dialed In 54 votes
    78%

(69 votes)

#1 7 months ago

Yes - I'm making a poll. I'm curious to know what pinside thinks. Here are my thoughts - and remember, this is from someone who is likely buying a standard Wonka:

The more I watch Wonka the more I can't get over how non innovative it is. In fact it might be the least innovative jjp to date. I'll focus on Dialed In which I think absolutely smokes it in this category. The jawbreaker toy is such a let down, and I can see that getting annoying to watch that spin all the time. The fact it rotates to show a lock - who cares? It's like ToM but without the cool chest mold and the magnet that grabs the ball!

What else is there? The TV in the back corner? So my pic gets transported onto a screen? This has nothing to do with the gameplay itself and from what I can tell disappears or gets so small I'm not sure of the benefit besides the initial occurrence.

I'm not mentioning magnets b/c DI has magnets throughout as well. The Wonka elevator in the back left corner? It's basically a giant clear VUK - yawn.

Dialed In:

Theatre. Period. Just the theater alone could take the win here. Then add the following:

1) Molded moving electric target
2) Flippers that are actually stopped upon attack from the game
3) Trap door on the left side
4) Implementation of a cell phone to control flippers. Lame but it's never been done before
5) Hmmm - the giant custom Cell Phone Toy tied to the entire game with modes and is interactive? I know this causes folks not to like the game but innovation? Yes please.
6) Back right corner - another custom sculpture that interacts with the ball

I think I might need to buy DI again. haha. I also think this is Jack's first time you're seeing him scale back a little to get the margins right.....I won't even mention how this compares to his previous game (POTC) which I still believe is off the line b/c margins are way out of whack considering all they included in that game. If it comes back, it's coming back at a higher price or stripped - sound familiar....WOZ?

#2 7 months ago

I like them both. Dialed in definitely has some killer innovations.

I will reserve judgement until I can spend some extended time on Wonka.

#3 7 months ago
Quoted from SDTMinSTL:

I like them both. Dialed in definitely has some killer innovations.
I will reserve judgement until I can spend some extended time on Wonka.

not talking about quality of play. Simply which is more innovative (bringing more to the table toys wise, tech wise)? DI or Wonka.....

I might also end up liking Wonka better too b/c I like the theme better - only hands on will determine that...

#4 7 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

not talking about quality of play. Simply which is more innovative (bringing more to the table toys wise, tech wise)? DI or Wonka.....
I might also end up liking Wonka better too b/c I like the theme better - only hands on will determine that...

Understood, but I feel even a verdict on its innovations is too soon at this point. Its probably second to dialed-in in that department, but I still don't want to make the call until I get to see them first hand with more mature code. Who knows, that clear vuk may impress more, or the camera and its implementation may change with code. Its early.

#5 7 months ago
Quoted from SDTMinSTL:

Understood, but I feel even a verdict on its innovations is too soon at this point. Its probably second to dialed-in in that department, but I still don't want to make the call until I get to see them first hand with more mature code. Who knows, that clear vuk may impress more, or the camera and its implementation may change with code. Its early.

I understand. I think we can agree there are only two pinball toys on the pf. The camera can be updated I guess but it's still a tv screen. It's not beasts that stick out of the pf to shoot or a witch to hit. That's all I mean.

#6 7 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

I understand. I think we can agree there are only two pinball toys on the pf. The camera can be updated I guess but it's still a tv screen. It's not beasts that stick out of the pf to shoot or a witch to hit. That's all I mean.

Yeah, I'll have to play Wonka first. I will say that WOZ is the crazy pin of the bunch. That's like a pinball machine from another planet. A freaking spinning house? A flying Monkey? The toto ball save feature.

-1
#7 7 months ago

I think Wonka is technically Dialed In 2. Hard to say until you see the final version and can get into the game deeper than you can playing one game then jumping to the back of the line. I was told it doesn't even have its sell thru code on it.

#8 7 months ago

While I think Wonka is the better game, DI absolutely has more innovation.

#9 7 months ago

I can’t comment on how wonka plays, I have yet to have hands on time. Dialed in was pretty innovative with the lcds, camera and Bluetooth. Did JJP capitalize on these to their fullest potential? No. I think so much more could have been done with cameras and Bluetooth and even possibly WiFi in pinball. Time for these companies to step up the technology and implement internet connectivity.

#10 7 months ago

Dialed In appears to have more innovation but I think that’s on purpose to an extent.

I can’t count how many times I visit an arcade and WOZ or POTC aren’t working and in need of service.

Maybe dialing back SE prices and simplifying the toys/mechs will make it more accessible on route and lead to collectors having more confidence.

#11 7 months ago

I don’t even think it’s close. You said it all in your first post.

#12 7 months ago

DI has more innovation but Wonka has a much more satisfying layout and gets rid of all the things that annoy me about Dialed In. No scoop bounce outs due to Cliffys the game wasn't designed around, no theater that drops the ball down onto the annoying Electric guy, etc. I was playing DI on location today after playing Wonka on Sunday and just wasn't having nearly as much fun. I'm of the mentality that a good layout is more important than innovative toys. One of my favorite games is Iron Maiden, which is also a 4 flipper game that is pretty barren of toys and innovation. Give me a great layout with excellent rules and that's all I really need

#13 7 months ago
Quoted from MikeS:

DI has more innovation but Wonka has a much more satisfying layout and gets rid of all the things that annoy me about Dialed In. No scoop bounce outs due to Cliffys the game wasn't designed around, no theater that drops the ball down onto the annoying Electric guy, etc. I was playing DI on location today after playing Wonka on Sunday and just wasn't having nearly as much fun. I'm of the mentality that a good layout is more important than innovative toys. One of my favorite games is Iron Maiden, which is also a 4 flipper game that is pretty barren of toys and innovation. Give me a great layout with excellent rules and that's all I really need

Respect everything you said here. We're talking innovation only.

So many "insiders" went to see this game and were BLOWN away by innovation. It just makes you think a little.....

#14 7 months ago

From what I see I like Wonka more but Dialed In has more innovation.

#15 7 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

Respect everything you said here. We're talking innovation only.
So many "insiders" went to see this game and were BLOWN away by innovation. It just makes you think a little.....

Innovation is overrated. If I cared about innovation I'd buy a P3. It's the most innovative game of all

#16 7 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

Respect everything you said here. We're talking innovation only.
So many "insiders" went to see this game and were BLOWN away by innovation. It just makes you think a little.....

Don’t you mean one insider? There was only one that talked about the innovation.

11
#17 7 months ago

Everything in Dialed In feel's like it part of that world and is something that the player can interact with. There's 3 miniature drones that each rotate, there's the quantum theater toy that interacts with the ball in multiple modes, the large molded physical ball lock representing station 3 from the theme, the quantum mechanic which mom jeans or not is incorporated extremely well and is used in several modes. There's the QUED moving electric toy that is used to charge the phone and then can be hit extra times to "super charge" the phone to increase scoring. The magnets in the game are tied directly to specific modes such as the EMP mode. I would say that the phone toy itself is very innovative as it's not just a mini LCD display that shows mode information. The phone features multiple custom animations from characters within the theme that interact with the player during modes and there's multiple character animations for each Disaster Mode. Finally the art, sounds, and music are all custom, all original and tie perfectly together with the theme. No compromises had to be made, no movie clips playing that are stuck on loop throughout a mode and and where audio from the scenes is missing.

Besides the mini LCD all of the features in Dialed In are miniature items from that world. When I look at Wonka and see the giant spinning Gobstopper I can't help to think "what does this do for me as a player"? Honestly, nothing. I have the Hobbit which features a toy that doesn't interact with the ball, Smaug but at the same time Smaug interacts with the player throughout the game, hell it even talks to you after some games. A giant spinning Gobstopper toy does not.

From a code perspective everything in Dialed In's ruleset is tied together extremely well and there's multiple mini wizard modes to go after. Two of the most innovative code elements to Dialed In are the "Big Bang" shot and the "SIM" card feature. If you light big bang hitting it in during any mode collects all shots on the playfield, that's cool. The SIM card feature extends the life to modes as it gives the player something else to go after and collect after modes are completed. Finally each are tied together as you can light Big Bang, hit it during a mode, and then immediately have the SIM card shot lit. Want to play a game and just attempt a handful of Disaster modes to go after a wizard mode? There's a mini wizard mode for that. Want to go after starting all 11 disaster modes to light another mini wizard mode? There's another mini wizard for that. Want to complete enough modes and collect SIM cards from each to spell "Dialed In" (one for each letter) to light the games super wizard mode? Yup, there's a super wizard mode for that as well. I don't see that same level of depth currently being offered by Wonka and for some players that will be fine.

As an entire package I think Dialed In is the far more innovative game on every level and I say that thinking Wonka looks cool. Dialed In to me is truly 90's pinball with modern technology, and modern code that is used in innovative ways.

#18 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Everything in Dialed In feel's like it part of that world and is something that the player can interact with. There's 3 miniature drones that each rotate, there's the quantum theater toy that interacts with the ball in multiple modes, the large molded physical ball lock representing station 3 from the theme, the quantum mechanic which mom jeans or not is incorporated extremely well and is used in several modes. There's the QUED moving electric toy that is used to charge the phone and then can be hit extra times to "super charge" the phone to increase scoring. The magnets in the game are tied directly to specific modes such as the EMP mode. I would say that the phone toy itself is very innovative as it's not just a mini LCD display that shows mode information. The phone features multiple custom animations from characters within the theme that interact with the player during modes and there's multiple character animations for each Disaster Mode. Finally the art, sounds, and music are all custom, all original and tie perfectly together with the theme. No compromises had to be made, no movie clips playing that are stuck on loop throughout a mode and and where audio from the scenes is missing.
Besides the mini LCD all of the features in Dialed In are miniature items from that world. When I look at Wonka and see the giant spinning Gobstopper I can't help to think "what does this do for me as a player"? Honestly, nothing. I have the Hobbit which features a toy that doesn't interact with the ball, Smaug but at the same time Smaug interacts with the player throughout the game. A giant spinning Gobstopper toy does not.
From a code perspective everything in the game is tied together extremely well and there's multiple mini wizard modes to go after. Two of the most innovative code elements to Dialed In are the "Big Bang" shot and the "SIM" card feature. If you light big bang hitting in during any mode collects all shots on the playfield, that's cool. The SIM card feature extends the life to modes as it gives the player something else to go after and collect after modes are completed. Finally each are tied together as you can light Big Bang, hit it during a mode, and then immediately have the SIM card shot lit. Want to play a game and just attempt modes to go after a wizard mode? There's a mini wizard mode for that. Want to go after completing modes and collecting SIM cards to spell "Dialed In" (one for each letter) to light the games super wizard mode? There's a wizard mode for that as well. I don't see that same level of depth or a reward system such as the SIM card feature being offered in Wonka currently.
As an entire package I think Dialed In is the far more innovative game on every level and I say that thinking Wonka looks cool. Dialed In to me is truly 90's pinball with modern technology, and modern code that is used in innovative ways.

Excellent summary

#19 7 months ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Don’t you mean one insider? There was only one that talked about the innovation.

I seem to recall others.... Could be wrong. I just remember everyone was saying how amazing it was.

#20 7 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

I seem to recall others.... Could be wrong. I just remember everyone was saying how amazing it was.

Amazing yes. But only one said it was so innovative. I do think it’s a great pin.

#21 7 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Everything in Dialed In feel's like it part of that world and is something that the player can interact with. There's 3 miniature drones that each rotate, there's the quantum theater toy that interacts with the ball in multiple modes, the large molded physical ball lock representing station 3 from the theme, the quantum mechanic which mom jeans or not is incorporated extremely well and is used in several modes. There's the QUED moving electric toy that is used to charge the phone and then can be hit extra times to "super charge" the phone to increase scoring. The magnets in the game are tied directly to specific modes such as the EMP mode. I would say that the phone toy itself is very innovative as it's not just a mini LCD display that shows mode information. The phone features multiple custom animations from characters within the theme that interact with the player during modes and there's multiple character animations for each Disaster Mode. Finally the art, sounds, and music are all custom, all original and tie perfectly together with the theme. No compromises had to be made, no movie clips playing that are stuck on loop throughout a mode and and where audio from the scenes is missing.
Besides the mini LCD all of the features in Dialed In are miniature items from that world. When I look at Wonka and see the giant spinning Gobstopper I can't help to think "what does this do for me as a player"? Honestly, nothing. I have the Hobbit which features a toy that doesn't interact with the ball, Smaug but at the same time Smaug interacts with the player throughout the game, hell it even talks to you after some games. A giant spinning Gobstopper toy does not.
From a code perspective everything in Dialed In's ruleset is tied together extremely well and there's multiple mini wizard modes to go after. Two of the most innovative code elements to Dialed In are the "Big Bang" shot and the "SIM" card feature. If you light big bang hitting it in during any mode collects all shots on the playfield, that's cool. The SIM card feature extends the life to modes as it gives the player something else to go after and collect after modes are completed. Finally each are tied together as you can light Big Bang, hit it during a mode, and then immediately have the SIM card shot lit. Want to play a game and just attempt a handful of Disaster modes to go after a wizard mode? There's a mini wizard mode for that. Want to go after starting all 11 disaster modes to light another mini wizard mode? There's another mini wizard for that. Want to complete enough modes and collect SIM cards from each to spell "Dialed In" (one for each letter) to light the games super wizard mode? Yup, there's a super wizard mode for that as well. I don't see that same level of depth currently being offered by Wonka and for some players that will be fine.
As an entire package I think Dialed In is the far more innovative game on every level and I say that thinking Wonka looks cool. Dialed In to me is truly 90's pinball with modern technology, and modern code that is used in innovative ways.

You should work for JJP and help with marketing. You always have the most informative, detailed posts about their pins. I know you own them all and are very passionate about JJP. Ever think about writing articles for twip?

#22 7 months ago
Quoted from Coz:

You should work for JJP and help with marketing. You always have the most informative, detailed posts about their pins. I know you own them all and are very passionate about JJP. Ever think about writing articles for twip?

Thanks, I appreciate it! I don't mean to sometimes sound like all I do is say good things about JJP pins lol. There's things on each one that have driven me nuts over the years but each have also been a lot of fun to own.

#23 7 months ago

I look at it like this....If both games were revealed at the same time side by side I would absolutely be more wowed and impressed with DI from simply and innovation perspective.

#24 7 months ago
Quoted from pipes:

I look at it like this....If both games were revealed at the same time side by side I would absolutely be more wowed and impressed with DI from simply and innovation perspective.

well put pipes. Feel the same way. Basically summarizes my 1st post perfectly.

I think if you told anyone that on pinside the day BEFORE the reveal you would have been flammed right the hell out of here. It's just amazes me how off this was based on insider reviews.

Distributors I can understand b/c these guys are trying to sell games.....but others?

#25 7 months ago

DI blows Wonka away on innovation for all the reasons Panzer nicely stated. My fear is now we are going to see innovation regression as these pin prices have peaked. No way JPP can keep packing more on and make a decent profit w/o raising the prices - and no way they can keep raising the prices. I think TZ was a nice plateau for for innovation and DI is another. A 3rd one coming? Not thinking so which is why I will be keeping my DI.

Incidentally I feel the same way about toys and is a reason I am keeping my FH and Stern POTC - those contain two of the best toys ever and I do not see those being surpassed by many newer pins - rather I see toys being made more simplistically or removed because of cost as well.

On the bright side like MikeS stated the PF design can change to offset less innovation and toys with IMDN being a great example - not much of innovation or toys - but a kick azz layout with cool LCD images and sound that make it a great pin.

#26 7 months ago

Will Jack finally cash in on Dialed In when he has pat modify a few things from its playfield design and re-themes it to Toy Story this fall?

I believe Pat was rumored to be the designer for both Wonka & Toy Story at one point. It turned out true for Wonka and I just don’t believe Pat would have been working on two layouts at the same time.

Most people. Agree Dialed in is a great game just hindered by a shitty theme. Change a couple things on the playfield and slap Woody & Buzz on that sucker and you probably have an instant hit on your hands.

#27 7 months ago
Quoted from SDTMinSTL:

I like them both. Dialed in definitely has some killer innovations.
I will reserve judgement until I can spend some extended time on Wonka.

Yep , people typically view a certain mechanism on a game as innovative if it’s something that seems as though it’s never been done before . But the way an “old” mechanism is implemented or interacts with the ball or player can also be considered innovative. Wonka is still too early code to decide if it has many innovations or not .

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