Quoted from Knapp_Arcade:

The just released Stern Insider Podcast contains a ton of cool new info on Venom for anyone who is interested:
https://www.knapparcade.org/post/new-details-on-venom-courtesy-of-the-stern-insider-podcast
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Quoted from manadams:

Third fan layout in a row for Eddy, hard to believe he designed

Quoted from Molon_Labe:

Long post - disregard if it bothers you.
He wants pinball to become relevant to the masses and has valid points. Why the pushback? I hate to break it to everyone, but as hot and bothered as the circle jerk here on Pinside is regarding pinball, the general population knows nothing about it. Personally, I had no clue it was still a thing nor did ANYONE who I recently told that I was buying some. You just don't see them in the wild anymore and the few that are at major commercial places like PinStack (major bowling alley chain) they are basically sitting there alone blinking while everyone else is jamming on modern video games, laser tag, skee ball, etc. I went to Pinstack because the Stern pinball locator led me there. When I asked the girl at the counter where the pinball machines were, she said, "What? I don't think we have any of those". I walked around until I found the few they had which were off on their own in obscurity compared to the other games.
The place that has the most pins in San Antonio (7th largest US city, so we aren't talking about rural, po-dunk country America like where I grew up) is a coffee house buried deep within a commercial district that no one would ever find unless they were actively searching for it. I dropped a buck into a couple of modern Sterns and had absolutely no clue what to do in the game except bat the ball around and try to hear callouts which I couldn't make out because they were turned down or competing with the game next to it. I found the older games more enjoyable at the time because I knew what to do. Hell, anyone knows what to do on games from the 80s. My 21 year old son said they were too complicated and spent a wad of quarters on Firepower - go figure.
Most will say "Oh, just hit the flashing lights you stupid moron - how hard can that be?" "What, do you have the attention span of a goldfish or something?" Fine, which flashing lights asshat because the whole machine is blinking and blinding me like the control panel of Chernobyl when it melted down. On the flip side, I can pick up any video game that contains vast amounts of more code and complexity of any modern pin. There is a tutorial that will walk anyone with zero experience through the basics and within a couple of minutes anyone, including a child, will have a firm grasp of the controls and the game objectives. These machines have large LCDs now with the compute power and memory necessary to give tutorials on the rules. They had an excuse previously, but none now other than they simply don't want to be bothered. The only one I saw with rules was a depiction of how to push the start button - thanks Stern that was helpful! If you know the rules, push both flippers to bypass the tutorial - done. Option it out in the setup menu if it's a HUO machine - wow that was difficult.
If you don't think these new games are intimidating to casuals - think again. If anyone thinks a casual will open their phone and Google rules on location when there is a flashy, cool video game next to it - dream on. Pinball had the chance to grab a casual that is now gone - probably for life unless someone spends the personal time to tutor them. That is reality based in facts. Fanboys/girls disliking it or disagreeing with it has zero relevance - it is what it is. If the community wants pinball to remain relevant and capture the younger generations, it needs to adapt. Once the older guys who remember it from the arcade glory days die off, its game over.
Younger generations expect certain things. If you want relevance adapt or don't be surprised to find Stern in the same boat as Circuit City, Sears, Kmart, and Blockbuster. They were generationally found obsolete because the failed to adapt and those that supported them historically didn't have the buying power collectively to keep them afloat. Maybe the few percentage points of the general populace of rich, uber-cool pinbro geeks can keep the industry afloat on their own but I doubt it.
As an outsider with zero skin or emotion in the game - I think KingVidiot is correct on where the industry should be heading. My adult kids (including the 21-year-old mentioned above) and grandkids love pinball now, but it was only after I took the time to explain the rules on the home machine. They are hooked probably for life, but that never would have occurred in the wild - NEVER. It doesn't have to be that way with modern technology. Pinball is fun and its fun to young people. Bring them into the fold and quit telling them to be smarter or less lazy. I sure as hell wouldn't have read a book when I was 10 before dropping a quarter and I would have walked away if it looked too complicated to figure out. I was at the arcade. I had to read and deal with complicated shit in school, this was supposed to be fun. I also only had 3 bucks to my name from skipping lunch. I am not going to waste it figuring something out. Give me Galaga or Flash Gordon.

Quoted from Eskaybee:

Rules being a driving selling point of this game and the code at 0.72 is real concerning. Based on history, we’re about a year (or more?) out until this game is complete. I thought it would be further along based on its supposed release of last year. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s a red flag.

Quoted from Br81zad:

I've noticed the same thing when we have company over. They start with JP and SM because those are the newer machines all shiny and flashy. They bash the ball around for a game or 2. Even if they have decent ball times, they still don't score high because they don't know how to trigger a mode (let alone complete one). Then they move on to my T2 and DE-TMNT. That's where they'll settle in and play 5-10 games and have fun. The shallow rule sets are just more accessible to novice players.
Now, some close friends of mine who live down the street come over all the time. After enough exposure to JP and me explaining the rules as I play and helping them see the shots light up during their play, they've picked it up and are hooked. So much so that they bought 1 pin already, and are shopping for a 2nd and maybe 3rd. Even created a Pinside account. lol But they've pretty much been ruined for the older games. They prefer the new games with deep rules.
A tutorial mode would be great for home use, but might slow down play on location. Imagine walking up to a machine you want to play and it's occupied by someone watching a 2min video tutorial before they even launch their first ball... I guess if that's what it takes to grow the hobby, then it's a necessary evil. Heck, there's a short clip during attract on my JP that demonstrates the Smart Missile shot. A similar clip could be made for all of the main mode activations.

Quoted from Ollulanus:

Anyone else look at the premium and think man, that's got a lot of neat toys that might justify routing it vs a pro....then think, man, that's a lot of unique moving parts and it would be way more trouble to keep running on route than it could possibly be worth?

Quoted from Ollulanus:

Anyone else look at the premium and think man, that's got a lot of neat toys that might justify routing it vs a pro....then think, man, that's a lot of unique moving parts and it would be way more trouble to keep running on route than it could possibly be worth?

Quoted from Eskaybee:

Rules being a driving selling point of this game and the code at 0.72 is real concerning. Based on history, we’re about a year (or more?) out until this game is complete. I thought it would be further along based on its supposed release of last year. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s a red flag.

Quoted from manadams:

Third fan layout in a row for Eddy, hard to believe he designed The Shadow and needed to show more of that side of his design. Two hidden pops should have been replaced with a spinner or two. Yeti art is great but people get tired of having it on every game especially with the color orgy. Many tired of multiple Marvel themes and the Ozzy music rumor not coming true bummed out a few. Prices remain high and people expect more with that being the case.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Ozzy rumor was a complete fabrication of Pinside with zero justification. Don’t see how you can hold that against stern.
People need to stop talking themselves in to believing dumb rumors and then getting pissed when they don’t happen.

Quoted from Eskaybee:

Rules being a driving selling point of this game and the code at 0.72 is real concerning. Based on history, we’re about a year (or more?) out until this game is complete. I thought it would be further along based on its supposed release of last year. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s a red flag.

Quoted from rai:

Also it’s not mode based might be be a problem for some players. It’s odd to me they didn’t have some Star Wars type modes for each specific player character.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Ozzy rumor was a complete fabrication of Pinside with zero justification. Don’t see how you can hold that against stern.
People need to stop talking themselves in to believing dumb rumors and then getting pissed when they don’t happen.

Quoted from luckymoey:

Lots of (usual) discussion about the LE not providing enough over premium. Seems like Stern has succeeded in creating the perception that a $9.7k! premium is good value.
Value sucks on both based on BoM, and you may lose more on the LE within the first few years, but long term Stern LE’s typically easily outperform premiums. Even at higher 1000 build number.
At least this LE has distinctive foil art and very nice, exclusive side rails along with the mirrored back glass that will add to its “collectibility” over time. Lame though that didn’t make the back glass art unique.

Quoted from PanzerKraken:

Value on LE has always been nonsense. 3k for powder coat, slightly better speakers, and art blades? Big woop. Perceived rarity to just make a game feel special to people and to fleece customers who fall for it.

Quoted from luckymoey:

So premium buyers aren’t also being fleeced and don’t “fall for it?”

Quoted from rai:

Also it’s not mode based might be be a problem for some players. It’s odd to me they didn’t have some Star Wars type modes for each specific player character.

Quoted from J85M:

Carnage sculpt upgrade is going to be a must on this one. Don’t often add characters to game but this one needs ALL of the symbiotes represented in sculpt form!
We are CARNAGE!
[quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from PanzerKraken:They are clearly getting charged way too much, while pros keep getting further stripped down to push prem... I mean they took out a $50 retail part on the pro to sell as a feature as Prem only for Foo. That's nonsense.
One could argue at least with Prem you are getting gameplay differences. LE's are literally around $500 retail in upgrades you are paying an extra 3k on, which have no impact on gameplay, pure cosmetic. So is exclusive art really worth about 2500 to a person?

Quoted from luckymoey:

I get it, but if everyone was only concerned about function then we’d all be wearing $35 Timex’s.

Quoted from hiker2099:

I think Stern is about to find out that the well is dry. I love venom and grew up on his comics, but I can’t afford this market anymore. I have several pens I could trade, but trading now is becoming impossible because the distributors aren’t able to liquidate enough assets.
Stern is about to hit a wall.

Quoted from hiker2099:

I think Stern is about to find out that the well is dry. I love venom and grew up on his comics, but I can’t afford this market anymore. I have several pens I could trade, but trading now is becoming impossible because the distributors aren’t able to liquidate enough assets.
Stern is about to hit a wall.

Quoted from hiker2099:

I think Stern is about to find out that the well is dry. I love venom and grew up on his comics, but I can’t afford this market anymore. I have several pens I could trade, but trading now is becoming impossible because the distributors aren’t able to liquidate enough assets.
Stern is about to hit a wall.

Quoted from hiker2099:

I think Stern is about to find out that the well is dry. I love venom and grew up on his comics, but I can’t afford this market anymore. I have several pens I could trade, but trading now is becoming impossible because the distributors aren’t able to liquidate enough assets.
Stern is about to hit a wall.

Quoted from hiker2099:

Stern is about to hit a wall.

Quoted from PersonX99:

And yet there are still plenty of people quietly handing their 10K over to Stern. Jus sayin...

Quoted from beltking:

Flipnout has le’s available in his store. Never seen that before normally long gone by now.

Quoted from luckymoey:

Value sucks on both based on BoM, and you may lose more on the LE within the first few years, but long term Stern LE’s typically easily outperform premiums. Even at higher 1000 build number.

Quoted from kool1:

For sure. I'm a Marvel fan but never had a Marvel themed game so this would be all new to the game room if I bought one.

Quoted from Rarehero:

If resale value is a concern, has an LE ever lost more value than a Prem or Pro? If you’re the type to sell games a lot, I think any possible value drop is relative. If there isn’t demand for the game…all models will drop, probably by the same amount. If anything, the LE will likely drop less, because at the end of the day, it’s still the “coolest” version. Let’s say a $10k Prem drops to $8500…at most the $13k LE will drop is $11.5k …you make out the same either way when you sell. But the LE is the only one with the chance of holding or going up, so honestly there’s no downside unless that initial purchase is gonna make you broke.

Quoted from rai:

Also it’s not mode based might be be a problem for some players. It’s odd to me they didn’t have some Star Wars type modes for each specific player character.

Quoted from PersonX99:

Where is Mrs. Chen? :p

Quoted from Eskaybee:

Agreed. However, the first few pages of the rules talks about mini modes, battle modes, and multiball modes. So there’s that….?

Quoted from Jai151:

Wrong universe

Quoted from Jai151:

Looks epic, but for the storyline this game is in, Carnage had a much more skeletal look[quoted image]

Quoted from Eskaybee:

Rules being a driving selling point of this game and the code at 0.72 is real concerning. Based on history, we’re about a year (or more?) out until this game is complete. I thought it would be further along based on its supposed release of last year. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s a red flag.