Agree that a lot of ads are out of touch with the market, which isn’t really new, but there are also amazing deals on almost every title. Definitely a time to sell low-buy-low. Or build up the collection if you have the cash and room. The market may soften further, but seems like minimal risk with almost new LE’s < 10 and premiums < 8.

Oh I don't even consider any of the LE/premium thing part of "the market". If you're trying to get deals on a basically new product you're trying to get milk from a rock. Those probably will never go more than 20% under cost due to mods and constant sale/trades keeping the prices lifted. It might be 10+ years. Maybe I'm the odd one out but I only buy machines on my top 20 list so I'm not really collecting I only buy something I know I'm keeping long term and playing almost daily.

When I talk about the market I'm mostly referring to anything pre-2016. New pinball prices aren't going to crash and if they do that's just sad because that means everyone's going broke. I don't want to get a pin at a good price because someone lost their job, that's some harsh negative attachment. What I want to see crash is the DMD era machines. Lots of long term collectors are getting new pins and getting rid of their DMDs and I want those but the prices they're asking are insane. It took almost a year of watching to get another used pinball machine but I ended up getting 4 within a few months towards the end of last year. It's unbelievable how long it took me to get a Funhouse in original condition for under $6k. People were full on asking that much for a project condition.

If there really is a ramping up and more companies involved in re-makes going forward that could put more price pressure on overall DMD titles. No one needs a 14k CV if a re-make is around the corner.

don't really think thats ever going to happen. The days of barn finds are over and there is a limit to how many machines survived and they are in the hands of true collectors that know their worth even as a project. Kind of like hotwheels treasure hunts only so many made and a few very desired from each year that never go down in value. The only thing that would cause that is a catastrophic crash of society.

What got us into 2008 ? It was a credit/debt bubble and we got out of 2008 with a credit/debt bubble.The next crash will be worse than 2008.I work in high tech manufacturing and we are slowing down.Look at house and car sales and they are not doing good.What part of the economy is expanding to make up for cars/houses ?

Funko Pops?

The Government.

I’ll give an example of car sales at the moment. My brother has been in the sales industry a long time. He’s a sales manager. Before Covid, he was at around 15k/mo. During Covid, his pay jumped to 40k+/mo! At the moment he’s down below his original pay before Covid, sitting at around 8k/mo. Kinda gives a true analysis on sales currently…..

Will be interesting to see the impact of Pedretti. If their engineering and build quality aren’t top notch the cost of originals may actually go up after the dust settles. People are expecting CGC level design and quality and will throw a fit for anything less. And high priced A title remakes will likely only continue to pull up pricing on B and C titles.

Well they gota be better than those shitty man in van eats donuts 2.0 kits right?! Yet for those reasons alone I'm out, I wish I could unsee them I really do.

Yeah, there's no way they will be as good as CGC....... I think the machines will look fine at first glance, but the durability, support and long term code development is a big question. They have a lot to prove - I'm not impressed at all by their 2.0 kits (if you're going to make the kit - you better re-release the whole game with the kit included is my feeling).

Is their european market going to be as big as it was in years past for these titles? Since depending on title, some of the 80s-90s games had the NA market only taking about half the games then the rest for europe. I had assumed there was a slight contraction in the euro market since then but maybe someone else knows how strong euro demand is on these alone.

Only so many made, until they are eventually remade. Outside of the truly rare and obscure, the higher the value/desirability the more likely it will be remade.

Will the Pedretti games be made in Russian?

Most of those games are 30/40% cheaper in europe that in the USA. Many games have been reimported during the last years.

I have 5 pins, 3 NIB (Bond, Elvira, Stranger Things). Of note, all 3 of these NIB have been acquired in trade deals at a discount off of MSRP when counting trade value since the start of 2022.

Got any hard numbers for us?

So these people bought a new machine and didn't open the box, but traded with you? or you were trading with distributors?

As a local guy who works at a distro told me, the issue really isn't that folks aren't buying pins, they are, sales are fine. The problem is just too much inventory. We had the boom of growth in recent years, and Covid did a number on supply, everyone was slow, demand was through the roof. But now everyone is pumping on all cylinders after this boom and it's just basically a flood of inventory. Shipments from stern are larger than they were 2 years ago, often those shipments were always cut short and dealers didn't get all they ordered, now Stern is more than meeting demand and supplying heavily, and other manufacturers are also picking up the pace and putting out more product, more companies making pins as well, it's just a crowded market.

Pins are selling but at the same time when anything new comes out, they are flooded with trades and so much inventory and many copies of the same title is forcing everyone to drop prices. He told me how so many people are trading in so many machines for Jaws for example. With folks sometimes having to trade in 2-3 machines at a time to get the new big thing especially if it's a high end model like an LE. And with Stern being plentiful on shipments, it doesn't help to be taking in trades of all these pins that are in stock NIB, so again, forcing prices down.

But the older DMD titles? Nope, those prices are holding well, because again, it's an inventory issue. New ones aren't everywhere, lot of folks holding onto older games, lot of these games have been lost to time, they are holding value better compared to newer games which are just plentiful.

Dealers are selling pins just fine, but those trying to move used product from their personal collections are clearly having issue.

You've hit the hidden nail here I think, this phenomena of the ever-changing state of the liquidity in the secondary market is what seems to frustrate some who are new to this.

I saved myself the trouble and gained some knowledge along the way.

The game sucks. Pure and simple. The playfield is cool, however. Buy the playfield and use it as game room decor. Problem solved!

Only fuzzy numbers.

Stranger Things NIB in the past week.

Someone responded to my for sale https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/170352 or want ad https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/170313

We agreed on a NIB Stranger Things and $2200 for the Mando I had listed at $11500... but how much is Mando really worth? They delivered Stranger Things and cash and picked up Mando. He was happy, I was happy.

I ended up trading my old LOTR and $2500 for EHOH NIB delivered when they were just back on the line but still hard to get.

I had someone picking up a Walking Dead LE I was selling for a friend who asked if I'd move anything else. Told him only thing I'd consider selling was Deadpool Pro. He offered a Bond Pro NIB or Bond Prem NIB (for cash difference) in trade. Ended up trading for the Bond Prem (straight trade old pro for new pro plus price difference between pro and premium). Bond sucked when I opened it, but I'm really digging all the new code.

If you want more hard numbers, a complete list of all offers received on machines are in the discussion thread of all my archived for sale threads in the past 4 years along with the final sales price in the interest of transparency.

Agree with this 100%, the popular always good older titles(good system 7s,11 , wpc’s) that only saw modest increase during the surge are still holding close to what they gained in value. The bottom of the barrel games that no one wanted are seeing huge price reductions and sitting for sale.

Bingo!

Interesting.. Mando LE @ 750 production, still low enough to be a bit exclusive. I recall seeing it for sale near me for quite a bit less than that, with the topper and everything.. but region is everything, and if someone wants to secure it.. they might just need to pay up.

Since it is the LE, one could see some fomo kick in if it's a must have theme esp.

---

LOTR, same deal.

Interesting about the deadpool, since it's still technically in production but I guess if you don't want to wait, then you have that option. I kind of see things being in this mindset for the newish titles.. basically, not many want to take the loss to make a sale... but the trade options are there, despite the disparity between the current MSRP and the original MSRP going as far back as 2016 with BM66.

LOTR is one of the greatest games ever made. Mandalorian is shit...and I'm a star wars/mando fan.

Insulated cups.

Corporate profits?

All these companies making record profits while laying off employees left and right, raising prices, and complaining about the economy as they cry into their mountains of money and CEOs give themselves multimillion dollar raises and buy 2 new yachts. Oh whoa as me, terrible economy, taxes.... yet they are making more money than ever.

You're seeing us be replaced by an AI world. Stock prices will soar and people will scratch their head why the market is doing so well when they lose their job and everything is so bad financially that they can't afford groceries for the week. Yet, all of us on Pinside will be questioning what's the next Stern release as we complain about the price of the last Stern release...

Pinball would have to fall off a cliff to match 10+ years ago. Only One manufacturer, used junk games that all needed new playfields. New Playfields and plastics were super hard to find. In 2014 a Nos Addams playfield sold for over 2600 on eBay which is 3,400 with inflation. People don’t know how great they have it today with parts available. This is why I have to laugh at the micro, Cpr, and classic arcade crybabies. Today, almost any game can be found restored as well as parts and knowledge to do it yourself. No one was even selling a rotisserie back then. Pinside was the Wild West with idiots trolls making it almost impossible to have a conversation. Enjoy how great you have it!

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Pedretti gonna be Stern/1up quality. Thin medal backbox and cab. surface mound components. Thin wire wireforms, no wedge LEDs, no knocker, no cash box, no manual, 220 pounds tops.

My Alien is wooden back box and came with a coin box.

It’s the hierarchy system. We are below them.

Have to learn to profit from it. Stock market. AAPL, NVDA, MSFT, AMZN etc etc. SNOW, MDB, PANW, CRWD, ZS, NOW etc etc

NFLX and ISRG up big after hours on earnings today. How many pins did you make today?

I think Pedretti only made the playfield on Alien, but it is very good quality.

The Funhouse 2.0 kit is high quality as well, but the coding does need work.

You have not been around long enough to know what amazing prices are. I see things trending downward, but we still have a long ways to go to get back to NON-CLOWN pricing.

Thought Buthamburg playfields did aliens?

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That might be? Both Italian companies? Might have it mixed up.

“Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!?” — Bluto

Buthamburg is German but think they have the contract for the Italian company. Not sure who's doing the cabinets for pedritty but sure hope they changed the style from what was used on the Aliens I just unboxed.

Germans and Italians? Hopefully it turns out better than their previous collaboration.

Had an F14 with one of their repo playfields and it was spectacular. But their Alien playfields are a different story from my experience and stories from other owners. The clear was too soft and prone to pooling/chipping. Not as bad as past JJP issues, but far from CGC quality. They’re a small, stand-up company so hopefully can put their best forward for the remakes if they’re involved.

Really? I have not heard anyone say anything like that around here.

Search "pooling" in the Alien remake owners thread.

isnt she german/italian??

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A lot of the time pooling is caused by faulty screw install - not the clear itself . Driving the screw into the playfield causes the the threads to catch and lift the clear . Happens even with the best clear job ( Kruzman ) if proper install precautions aren’t taken .

I was happy to purchase the majority of my pinball machines in the $100 to $2000 range back in the late 70's through the 90's, up until about 1999 when Williams/Bally gave up the ghost. I can still remember how hard it was to get repair parts, especially plastics. I'm glad there are folks out there going to the effort of making parts available again. Steve at PBR saved me more than once during the shortage years.

All those parts being made from all different people would cliff dive in supply if there was a real pinball price crash. A devaluation like that in pinball elicits a psychological hit. For those who wish for a real crash to happen, you'll reap what you sow next time your plastic ramp snaps or your driver board fries and you need a new reproduction, because nobody will bother to make them anymore.

I don't follow this logic...
The current machines will still need replacement parts, as they always have, no?

Back in the mid 1990’s Steve at PBR used to tell me not to worry because if parts were needed someone would make them.
I believed him but that didn’t stop me from ordering extra plastic sets and parts for my machines just in case.

A lot of people have a vested interest in their machines. If their values drastically drop, people will not spend the money on upkeep.