These games are all located In places no sane man would go.

Hobby cycle out or burn out , newer people are burnt out of current hobbies. Dove deep too quickly and reached a pinnacle too quickly. The pinnacle is the best part of the hobby, going from dumpster fires to the dream items you’ve drooled over. They’ve gotten all the dopamine out of it.

dung ok, I have to interject now...

As a developer of some of these "virtual creations" in the past (look up toy king and bublehead sometime and you might find my old authoring posts on vpforum) I have to say, we took the time to do these virtual recreations by play testing the shit out of them and comparing the play from real to virtual, and tweaking them to play the same. This is why we had MANY different versions from many different authors. Some just went through the motions, make the virtual table match the layout of a grainy bare playfield picture and wire up the pinmame connector and dump it to the net. Others would work for weeks/months perfecting the gameplay. I was the later. When you played my virtual tables, they felt right and played right or I didn't publish them. So don't think it takes Ferrari race team F1 budgets and monies to get these things right. Fans of real pinball worked damn hard to make them play like the real things as much as possible, and we were NOT getting a fucking dime to do it. Why not try a few games on a good well built platform and then talk to me. I built my own VP cabinet and I have knowhow and experience so I can tweek every table to play close to the real one. Virtual pin tables don't break, don't need cleaned, waxed or ever relamped or rerubbered, yet I own both real and virtual. Does real trump virtual? Always, but don't throw every table author under your cash strapped hobbyist bus... we spent man years recreating these tables for the community as a free service. And a lot of people still play them.

That, and/or people are aging out. Downsizing, taking big trips, hell - just purchasing a new vehicle now requires 10k more!

I wouldn't underestimate the economy. Big questions that need answers there.

that $6k LZ Pre is a damn steal

Sick of having the same conversation that people feel like if only they would tell me I'd see the light. Thank you for your service. I don't like it. I've tried it on multiple occasions. I'll stick to my shitty space hogging labor intensive real mccoys.

Its a given that all Stern LE's will be sold to distros. It does seem like they are pretty scarce to buy from distros right now, so the sold out thing may be true. There might be a handful of them out there still though, plus yeah, as you mentioned the distros that tuck them away and then magically find them to sell for more money later on

The devil is in the details here.

Zeppelin is probably one of the most boring games I’ve ever played.

This foo machine has been routed.

9k just isn’t wildly low for a godfather. That game has been on the downhill since is was released. And I’ll keep waiting on this one because this is the most innovative of the three games.

Vpin players tend to be pinball fans that love real pinball like anyone else on here, they just have space issues and don't have a complete aversion to videogames. Virtual Pinball is a thing that constantly evolves, the experience you get from Virtual Pinball tables released now is on a much higher level than the one's released even a year ago. There are tables that one person made, then there are tables made by a ton of people that took them years of meticulous work to get right and the quality really shows in that case. Most people can tell if they are playing something made well or not, because they are pinball fans that know what the real thing is supposed to feel like. The physics, visuals and sounds have made enormous strides.

Having said that I get why people don't like it, even the best cabinet setups can accurately be described as pancake pinball, which is why I only play in VR. The VR experience is ridiculously convincing.

As for reviewing a machine just based on vpin versions, I doubt most people are doing that. Probably more so they have the vpin version because they liked the real life version. And that's ignoring the original stuff on vpin that aren't real machines, much like the recreations, recently people have really stepped up the quality of the originals, with incredible designs, and most of the stuff coming out now is the end product of stuff they started working on 3 years ago.

Oh, and I'm talking strictly about the vpx experience.

Good deal!

3 Like-new Pinball Machines Deadpool (PRO) Mandalorian Led Zeppelin
$4,500
Listed 16 hours ago in Palm Coast, FL
Details
Condition
Used - like new
$4500 each or 12k for all 3
Used, like new
Located in Deleon Springs

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3632693010381575/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A8e4ffc4e-1255-4449-935f-d304149c1dc5

Mandalorian pro pinball Machine by Stern pinball
$5,000
Listed 18 hours ago in Nashville, TN
Details
Condition
Used - Good
Color
Brown
Working Mandalorian pinball machine. Pick up in Nashville TN.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1304695413542303/?ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_top_picks&referral_story_type=top_picks

Oktoberfest Pinball Machine
$5,500
Listed 4 weeks ago in Las Vegas, NV
Details
Condition
Used - like new
Color
Black
Selling my Oktoberfest Pinball Machine. Purchased from the original owner and was home used. Game plays flawlessly and in excellent condition all around. Pinside website this is a top 100 game due to its expansive features and gameplay. Please reach out to me with any questions you may have. Willing to ship anywhere at buyers expense. Thank you

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/925991149174944/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Ab75a106e-e76b-4740-8cb0-bf60999c0aa7

Ultraman CE $5500

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/359345283145808/?mibextid=HHaHfI

Houdini DE $5800
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/811296187675094/?mibextid=HHaHfI

TMNT Pro $5395
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/221242947710753/?mibextid=HHaHfI

Oktoberfest $5500
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/925991149174944/?mibextid=HHaHfI

STTNG $5100
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1082383369625179/?mibextid=HHaHfI

Stranger Things $6600
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/695802065781135/?mibextid=HHaHfI

Dialed In LE $5700
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/304102749081527/?mibextid=HHaHfI

Avatar Pro $4700

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/397671332698034/?mibextid=HHaHfI

Are those supposed to be examples of The Crash?

No but prices are decent

Prices keep plummeting all over the place, everyone struggling to move their used pins. So at what point is it a crash? When you can get a TAF or a grail pin only under priced is that the actual metric folks want?

For months it's been "market is soft". Yet prices keep going down. I think the grails will always be standing firm but when everything else is sinking like a rock it's getting pretty questionable. Post covid market over saturation? The deals right now are pretty amazing. Local sales boards for arcade/pins is nothing but folks constantly dropping their prices to try to move a pin for months

Stranger Things pro $200 back of NIB price is a killer deal???

Who stated killer?

Read the first post, and Ron’s
Further posts on the matter.

Ron’s definition of a crash is his coming to your home, buying all your games at “Pennies on the dollar” and laughing in your face.

So no, we aren’t in a “crash.”

There’s a reason everybody is moving the goal posts. “The bubble will burst and I’ll buy all the top 20 games super cheap!!” Guys have all (except Ron) pivoted into “there’s a market correction or softening.”

The “you guys are all insane prices will never drop” guys like me have all pivoted to “yeah there’s a market correction or softening.”

Really the “correction” is NIB games which now lose 10-20 percent within a year which is how it’s always been save for a couple freakish years. We aren’t seeing any wholesale collapse on the old stuff.

It’s called recognizing reality. The drama queens like Ron will never get what they want (2002 prices) unless there’s a complete economic meltdown, in which case he and I will be fighting our neighbors to the death over a can of Beefaroni and not exactly worrying about our pinball collections.

Wrong!!!
The real pinheads won't care about that Beefaroni, and will be content living off stored pinhead bodyfat......
Pennies on the dollar!!!!

Starving Citizen: "Yes, I'll take that can of Beefaroni for my MMr"
Starving Pinhead: "Suckers!!!"
(meanwhile at Stern)
Disney-Boy: "This apocalypse has been bad for sales.... quick, re-release every game as an LE.... we need to get whatever we can before our customers are all dead".

*Years Later*
The future isn't Mad-Max.... it's Pin-Max....... with radioactive pinheads trolling the wasteland looking for machines and parts.
BarterTown will be the PHOF.... with Tim (the man with the knowing of a lot of things) working for Mohawk girl.

It would be interesting to see what would happen. Historically, one comes to a financial decision, where there is a decision point on the cost of storage VS the value of what you are trying to store... back in the day, parts were stripped, but the cabs are what were used to heat those beefaroni cans. :~(

I think the trend of game rooms and she/he caves should keep things from ever getting like that for the foreseeable future.

Games whose supply and demand factors have not changed significantly in the past few years have not had their price change significantly either.
The Great Softening isn’t affecting all games equally.

At what point is it going to be ok to offer a pre-covid price on a pin? Especially one that has been on the marketplace since the summer with about 2-3k in reductions, and with that similar title being listed else where around the country for less and still sitting for months?

When was it ever not ok to make an offer?

People’s emotions and feelings get all twisted with offers.

Sounds like a them problem.

If your offer is declined, you're in the exact same position you were before. No risk.

It’s okay to offer anything for any game.

Is this something listed at 20k, then reduced by 3k? Or are we talking a reasonable starting point? Details matter.

(I've been watching too much Reacher )

In my opinion, you can offer whatever you want, but if you're coming in with a low offer on a game that's already been dropped I would temper your expectations.

This may be about my Metallica Pro that we've discussed with ColorDMD and a few other nice mods that is currently listed at $6500 and was originally listed months ago at $8500 (including topper). May also not be.

But I'll say this, from my perspective, and speaking somewhat generally. I have the game listed at what I believe is a fair price, and also the final price before I just hold onto it. Most sellers have come to terms with taking a hit on pins they bought during peak value, but don't confuse that for a fire sale

If it's not selling it's priced too high, either lower the price or end ad.

Watching the early SS and Em market...I don't see any " crash". It does seem that supply has out paced demand per say. Very collectable pins seldom turn up for sale. And if they do, they are priced high. The ho-hum obscure titles tend to always be for sale at decent prices. But still most just sit out there for weeks and months before they disappear one way or another.

I think there was a rumor that Metallica might be made again by Stern, not sure if there is any truth to it or not. That might be affecting the price of your machine, along with general market softness.

Yes everybody has heard that rumor and it’s indeed a large factor in Metallica prices falling like a rock.

I’m hoping it’s true, and then looking forward to picking up an old school version for $5k or less. Killer game.

Look out for thise used Circus Voltaire prices..

Screenshot_20240115_103629_Gmail (resized).jpg

Spell “WOW” to crash the circus Voltaire prices! ….”now watch this!”

Maybe....

But can Pedretti match the quality level of CGC? I have no doubt they can deliver quicker. Hell a bunch of monkeys could.

But quality... That's where we'll see if it'll actually affect the prices of the OGs.

I have a Funhouse 2.0 kit and right now would be leery of future Pedretti offerings. They still haven't gotten the emulation of Funhouse correct and the 2.0 game is still pretty unbalanced scoring-wise and not as fun as I'd hoped.

If Alien is any indication, the answer is a big no. They use high quality components, but have a long way to go on engineering design and assembly quality. Maybe (hopefully) they’ll get there.

Alien is Pinball Brothers, the WMS remake company is Pedretti.

Yeah...but they have merged in some capacity...
https://pinballmag.fr/en/pinball-brothers-and-pedretti-merge/

Forget CGC, how about Williams? Thats still the gold standard. The only remake I’d consider is BBB…any B/W games, I’d rather just have the original. The feel of the play is still the best.

Ahh ok, maybe that is what's delaying the FH 2.0 updates...

I'm hoping we're seeing the last ditch scramble to get as much money as possible out of these machines. People are posting outlandish prices on everything suddenly. Usually start of the year prices go down. I've noticed a lot of the machines are games people bought last year at dumb prices and now it looks like they're panic selling at even dumber prices. I can buy a brand new premium machine for less than most of these 40+ year old lazy shop job machines. People see a gorgeous full refurb done by a reputable restorer selling for 10k and go "oh yeah mine is totally worth that with these melting parts and scuffed playfield".

Seen a lot of rumored remake machines suddenly up for way over market. I think it would be hilarious if all of them lost tons of money on remakes. I'd never buy a TZ because the prices are ridiculous but brand new, absolutely you have a deal. Most of the stuff I see on market is misleading if not listed with gaps of information that decrease the value of the machine. A few machines I've really been wanting have been listed 40% over value tagged as "fully shopped" when the playfield has dirt, dust, and some old parts or completely untouched boards with burns on the contacts. I'm also tired of seeing "fully refurbished" then finding out the work was done 10 years ago or finding out the machine had "tons of work" or mods to see corrosion and grime on the boards and priced at HUO numbers.

This was a terrible time to get into collecting for anyone really into DMD era games. I want Pedretti to remake Indiana Jones just so I can sit back and watch the drama unfold.

This all goes back to pinballs original problem- how to value and price a machine. The fact that you could probably create a college level course in pinball valuation and still have massive disagreements amongst the class tells you something.

Using op-lists (20 years ago ish) was one way, they were mostly "non" prime condition games that you would assume to have to work on a bit.

After that the internet was used- again this was not telling us everything to know about these transactions, time place and condition were not considered only the sale price. This is a crutch we are still using today, since there is no formal education available in this, crutch seems like better than nothing.

If we are in a repeat of the 1970s, this is the the start of a much higher and faster acceleration of price increases... for everything. Get ahead before everyone else figures it out. Hopefully we won't have to do roll call to get gasoline like back then.

No doubt. I've tried to educate people but they don't care. They want as much money as they can get and will sit on a pin they never play for years until they get that price. They see something sold by a distributor who professionally shopped a machine and assume that's the going price. I built my own price sheets that take into account availability, production count, market analysis for the past decade, parts cost and availability, condition, mods, board condition, popularity and still yet my pricing shows pretty much everything is 40-60% above actual value. Someone bought a pin overpriced then they sell it for extra overpriced 6 months later and that keeps going on and on until suddenly pins stop selling. That's where we're at.

I set my prices, I have condition scales, I check everything on the machine and I'm willing to pay fair actual value but rarely do I get sellers who have an understanding. I don't go over my pricing and I stick to it no matter how badly I want a machine. These aren't an investment but too many people treat it that way. I have yet to get my holy grail machine because prices are ridiculous. If I had a place to publish a price sheet I absolutely would do that and update it every bi-annually. It's generally the stuff in the top 100 that gets the most gouging. If people were interested and it would help fix this mess I could start a forum post or something. I'd make a calculator if I had API access to pinside's DB of sales history.

If it's a repeat of the 70s then that means we're going to see a bigger faster worse crash. No one willing to sell, no one willing to buy, businesses start going belly up and oops there goes the arcade hobby again. The pins will sell to people with excess money or scalper types who will sit on them and ultimately just throw them in the trash or leave them in storage until they rot.

+1 on the misleading, incomplete, or just lazy garbage ads. 3 blurry pictures. Didn’t remove the glass type. If you don’t put pride and detail in your ad, you probably don’t put it in your games either, and I don’t want to deal with you.

Absolutely. I've had 3 good deals and those were the only people honest and up front with me on everything they knew. Sometimes it took a few days to get pics but they did get me the info I asked for. I've had so many shady deals I walked away from just due to an absolute lack of effort on the seller's part. I realize there are a lot of tire kickers and lowballers but I'd think you could tell the difference after talking to me for like two minutes.

On a lot of these overpriced machines I see the line "completely refurbished with led kit"....if only that's all it took to completely refurbish a machine.

Beefaroni +1