Quoted from iceman44:

More people should look at great games like Oktoberfest. It’s fantastic for all the reasons noted above.
And great value.
Until now, people just followed the lead penguins jumping off the iceberg into the Stern ocean.
Penguin in the back says, “what are we doing” to the one next to him. “I don’t know, just following the group”.
Now that you WILL lose $$$. Those penguins might think twice
“Flow is the new toy”. Lol

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

No matter what happens I can't wait to see JJP's next professional looking pinball trailer and another terrible cheesy one from Stern. Guess Stern doesn't care too much when they are selling so many games.
JJP
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Stern
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Quoted from bocce:

Who wants an incomplete collectible? That thing will never sell...

Quoted from luckymoey:

But it's a pinball forum not the Harvard Law Review.[quoted image]

Quoted from Garrett:

It's not just about her.
In the past, re-runs generated residuals for the actors and writers each time it aired.
They are simply asking for something when streamed, music went through the same thing decades ago.
While there are many in Hollywood that are quite wealthy, most in the industry are not.
Don't they deserve a fair share for thier effort? Or is that money just for the VP's and sharholders?

Quoted from Nevus:

Hilarious!
You win Pinside today.

Quoted from Npbassman:

There is an AIQ Pro listed for $5500 in AZ that been there for a few weeks and my local distro just received and is asking $6200. I'm sure he'd go lower. Regarding GZ and Foo, I think it's just a matter of time before we start seeing those secondary prices fall. Yes, some people are just trying to cash out and are willing to hold on if they don't sell. But others will need to sell to make room for a new title if the urge to FOMO kicks in. This will mean that distros will be out of the picture unless they start discounting their NIBs.

Quoted from luckymoey:Wasn’t trying to suggest the economy is good - far from it. Only that “all businesses” are not going backwards, and that there are plenty of things Stern could do to continue to grow the hobby even in an down/uncertain economy. And I don’t buy that pinball is a luxury good. Seems like it’s largely a middle/upper middle class indulgence that’s grown based on more-and-more people joining the hobby and a healthy secondary market. Doubt many people would classify the crowds at pinball shows as a luxury demo.

Quoted from luckymoey:

Agree, pinball certainly isn’t a necessity so technically a luxury. Just think that the current pinball softness has as much, or more, to do with the perception/reality of reduced value from rapid, double inflation level price increases than the pinball crowd cutting non-necessity spending. It may be a “luxury” but don’t believe it’s historically followed other “luxury good” markets, but may be wrong.

Quoted from Gribbs:

I agree with many of your overall points, but how exactly do you know this with SUCH certainty?

Quoted from pinballcorpse:

I see commentary of this nature over and over.
I think there is a widespread agreement that the prices are stupidly high for what is offered. However, I don't feel cheated, swindled, taken advantage of, or "fleeced". I can simply say "no thanks" and keep my money.
Maybe operators who need to have the latest games to attract customers have a different viewpoint, but it has been well-established that the current trend is not geared toward operators. (Ironically, I recall sitting on the bus in front of the Stern factory about 20 years ago and Gary Stern coming onto the bus with his speech about how he did not care about collectors).

Quoted from Spiderpin:

You have two games, so No.

Quoted from iceman44:

The difference being you aren’t in the market to buy 2 or 3 Ferraris a year Roost.
And it’s not about being fleeced or price gouged, they are in the process of F ing themselves and we adjust our purchasing habits
It’s been a collective effort with the manufacturers/Distros/flippers as we all know
The Covid unwind combined with a poor economy, inflation and higher interest rates and here we go
The pin market will adjust like everything else. It’s not immune from economic and normal market forces

Quoted from NPO:

All right, I'll ask it: you been buying a Ferrari each year the last 10-15 years? If so and now you can't afford it, kudos to your outlook.
If you haven't, what exactly is your point?
Not attempting to be contentious. Looking for the rationale here.

Quoted from Roostking:

Indeed I do. Met LE 199 paid $7200 with my preferred #. Dumb $250 but whatever. 10 gs for Halloween.
Whats your point?

Quoted from iceman44:

The METLE fiasco pretty much started the whole shit show! Congrats on a great game/buy

Quoted from zaphX:

That's the wrong analogy, because most of us CAN afford the pinball price hikes.
We just don't WANT to, because it isn't worth it.
I'm sure there are wealthy Ferrari enthusiasts that would balk if they did a big enough price hike.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Not sure...listed my very, very nice LE for 12.5k, had 3 offers @ 11.5k in 6 days. Decided to play it a bit more, countered with 12k to all 3..got lazy and also had a few great games on it.... pulled the ad deciding to keep it 2 days later. Summary - LE would have moved for 11.5k within about a week or so. No idea on the premium......guess this thread would say 1/2 of what was NIB....suspect there are, however, many people willing to pay a premium for good games.
(dont think it's underrated, just a very "in your face, pay attention" type of game....amazing shooter.....

Quoted from luckymoey:

Why would they want to step into the lion’s den of slots? They’d be a nothing going up against billion $ entrenched competitors, and selling to take-no-prisoner global casinos at relatively slim margins. So many more profitable opportunities to grow pinball as the dominant player.

Quoted from Rarehero:

They almost went out of business in 2010 & didn’t switch to slots. They’re not a slot company. This is some weird armchair quarterbacking.
They’ve dabbled in redemption with Simpsons Kooky Carnival & an unreleased Spider-Man game…but ultimately, they’re a pinball company.

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Do you guys remember Thunderbirds? $4,000 for a fully featured pin from a new manufacturing base.
If you see one kill it with fire.

Quoted from Rarehero:Ok, this thread has taken a new turn for the absurd. One game doesn’t sell out in seconds & Stern is making slot machines.
Let’s see Pinside try to will this into existence like they did with LOTR & Tron Vaults.

Quoted from doublestack:

Ahhh so playing on location is for the poors who can't afford a basement full of NIB sterns?
I remember when this hobby was just about playing and fixing up games, not crying about the price of buying toys for sad adults.

Quoted from ralphs007:

I hope you're right, because a lot of Pinsider's are already saying they're done with NIB from Stern,due to the price increases. Now what they say and what they do, that's another thing.It doesn't effect me that much, because I only have room for four pins.

Quoted from ataritoday:

Current pricing is insane.
Without sales data it’s really hard to know what is going on…. Have the manufacturers found the top of the pricing ? Feels like that based on podcasts, etc….. but none of us know.
I personally could care less how they price the collectors/LE models as that isn’t for me… that whole thing is based on people wanting something unique and are willing to pay extra for it. I’ll let the collectors and stern/JJP figure that out. More power to the manufactures If they can make big $ there because it doesn’t impact me…. And the collectors can always buy the next model down that has all the same gameplay features… capital market.
There is no doubt inflation is real… but keep in mind that companies like stern are not sitting around just absorbing all of it…..they are
Finding efficiencies…. Material substitution (engineer a new part) Buying larger quantities to lower price per each on parts, finding new suppliers, reducing waste through new processes, I’m sure the new plant will allow them to optimize inventory flow, their electronics I think are cheaper and easier to manufacturer, less wires… So labor costs likely have come down over time per machine. Sterns production seems to have normalized. Vs Covid times.. which should also have reduced cost since then…
As a business, stern has run itself really well, they have had a lot of hit games, they have been
able to take price, they stuff they are doing with the LCD is great, code is better than ever,…they have a 3tier model that is attempting to hit each customer segment…they have been fortunate that the market has been super hot, and they have definitely been a factor in driving it. Consumers have been willing to pay the price until now.
BUT One of the reasons the market went insane was Covid. Now discretionary money is being spent in travel, governments handouts are less. It HAS to have some downward pressure on the pinball market. Proof, they are not instantly selling out like they were, but they are still moving units.
There are a few game I would really like to buy…. But not at this pricing it’s just too much. JJP stuff is insane….stern premium is just too much. Spooky, TNA at $9k, Good grief I would have bought one at a lower price.
Does anyone happen to have pricing over the past 5 years for all of the models……?

Quoted from underlord:

Smart play and good luck. Hoping you get your dream house.
I just paid mine off in 2020. Amazing feeling. 18 years of double principle payments.

Quoted from Reality_Studio:

Assuming that's true (I say assuming because I presume that's a crypto focussed website) that's the worst case scenario which if happened would result in total anarchy. Every single bank failing simultaneously falls under the "too big to fail" category where I presume the government would print more money or face a revolt.

Quoted from Ballderdash:

Alan Greenspan basically said government can guarantee/print any amount of $, but can’t guarantee it’s purchasing power. So to keep the Ponzi scheme going we should expect more and more inflation. Otherwise the derivative market bubble pops and everyone goes broke. Either way it’s not going to last much longer. Learn the difference between currency and money. Hold real/physical assets in your own possession.

Quoted from NPO:

Because its a Boomer/GenX theme that they remember with such fondness.
When two generations own 80% of all assets.... I mean....why wouldn't they buy it. After all, wouldn't want to let Millennials or Gen Z have jack-fucking-shit....
Remember, Millenials and Gen Z should get realistic and look for homes at or around $150K like our parents did
[quoted image]

Quoted from NPO:

And homes cost way less when they were "raising my ass" then homes do now.
And I have one source of income vs both of them combined.
Also, you assume my parents stayed together, which they didn't. One year, my mom and I survived on $4K for the year.
So, how about you get off making assumptions you know jack shit about. Sounds like a boomer thing.

Quoted from NPO:

Probably start with spelling millennial right : ).

Quoted from Pinhead_:

Easy now, his readers just fell off that's all.