Quoted from pinzrfun:You're in Idaho, I'm sure many things the rest of us take for granted look "amazing" to you........
And wipe that silly grin off your face.
Point of order, he recently relocated from California 
(Topic ID: 340728)
This topic is closed.
Quoted from rai:Good point, was just at Five Guys and a meal (burger, fries and drink, tax) was $17 is that crazy?
This was me last night, except it was $22 in DC! Small fries up to $5.50, potato supply chain must still be tight. Any intelligence out of Idaho on that front?
Carol Stream, IL
Quoted from fosaisu:Potato supply chain must still be tight.
Any intelligence out of Idaho on that front?
I'd say we should ask IdahoRealtor, but looks like he just relocated there from NorCal.
We might need to give him more time to gather intel. Is Spuds Mackenzie still around?
Quoted from littlecammi:I'd say we should ask IdahoRealtor, but looks like he just relocated there from NorCal.
Oh, I’d imagine he’s closed a few potato-field transactions since the move.
Quoted from pinzrfun:You're in Idaho, I'm sure many things the rest of us take for granted look "amazing" to you........
And wipe that silly grin off your face.
Yeah. ID is totally lame. Nobody wants to move here. There's no growth at all.
Prague
Quoted from fosaisu:This was me last night, except it was $22 in DC!
DC? That's why!
Quoted from fosaisu:This was me last night, except it was $22 in DC! Small fries up to $5.50, potato supply chain must still be tight. Any intelligence out of Idaho on that front?
Thats crazy! I do love the fries tho!
Quoted from fosaisu:This was me last night, except it was $22 in DC! Small fries up to $5.50, potato supply chain must still be tight. Any intelligence out of Idaho on that front?
Ha! Good question. Good water outlook for next season. Expect relief soon.
For instant relief download the McDonald's app for ability to order $1 large fries every 15 minutes. 
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:Yeah. ID is totally lame. Nobody wants to move here. There's no growth at all.
Same as Texas. Too hot. Nobody should come here either 
Quoted from Haymaker:. Its just really hard for me to get past the bad theme
Beer, women, games, rides, adult humor— yeah all things pinball players hate.
Quoted from rosh:Beer, women, games, rides, adult humor— yeah all things pinball players hate.
More people should look at great games like Oktoberfest. It’s fantastic for all the reasons noted above.
And great value.
Until now, people just followed the lead penguins jumping off the iceberg into the Stern ocean.
Penguin in the back says, “what are we doing” to the one next to him. “I don’t know, just following the group”.
Now that you WILL lose $$$. Those penguins might think twice
“Flow is the new toy”. Lol
First new pinball purchase had 11 issues with one hour of play.
The Stern Godzilla price tag was hard to do.
I don't see buying Stern or new again. Had good luck with old Bally/Williams machines.
Quoted from Vino:Don’t agree. They say beauty is only skin deep.
Spooky brings cool themes but build quality needs to improve along with complete code to deliver real value at these higher price points.
Couldn't agree more. The Halloween/Ultraman dumpsterfire did it. Why would you use the exact same playfield on both machines? Just seems lazy. And with 3 playfields you'd think the game would be fun, but it not, its just not fun. Nobody wants the used ones selling for less than msrp because of it.
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:Yeah. ID is totally lame. Nobody wants to move here. There's no growth at all.
Except potatoes. They still grow there.
Quoted from iceman44:More people should look at great games like Oktoberfest.
Big issue is that in relative terms, very few people have actually gotten sufficient time on the game to get it. The layout is very different than most newer games so it takes a bit of time to get a feel for it. The rules are crafted to take advantage of the uniqueness of the layout, so it takes a few games to learn how things work before you can explore the breadth and depth of it. Even after dozens and dozens of games changing up the steins you choose, can totally change how you play the game. Which is why it is a game that you need to own to appreciate. As some said, every time I play it I smile.
It has always reminded me of another Balcer game, TSPP. When I first played it I did not get why people loved it so much, then I read a bit about the rules, got a feel for the shots and it all clicked and I've owned one for probably 15 years.
But to get this back on topic. If I am putting a game in my game room, I am one of those people that is going to know I like it before I buy it. Well, I have bought a couple of games over the years I had barely played before buying, but they were 1.5K not 10K and there was little risk. I think there are lot of guys like me, but there are a lot of guys who are willing to just go for it based on theme or designer or brand or a quick stream. I have to believe that the higher prices and what many believe will be a larger hit on value on resale, is going to move some guys from the latter category to the former as they will become more selective in what they buy. The release of a half dozen titles in such a narrow window gave lots of options, which further drives selectivity. That variety is only going to increase and that will make every game a a bit riskier for all companies as people will be more selective.
How small can your run be and still be profitable? If a game is a sales disaster, how long until your next game is ready?
Quoted from rosh:Big issue is that in relative terms, very few people have actually gotten sufficient time on the game to get it. The layout is very different than most newer games so it takes a bit of time to get a feel for it. The rules are crafted to take advantage of the uniqueness of the layout, so it takes a few games to learn how things work before you can explore the breadth and depth of it. Even after dozens and dozens of games changing up the steins you choose, can totally change how you play the game. Which is why it is a game that you need to own to appreciate. As some said, every time I play it I smile.
It has always reminded me of another Balcer game, TSPP. When I first played it I did not get why people loved it so much, then I read a bit about the rules, got a feel for the shots and it all clicked and I've owned one for probably 15 years.
But to get this back on topic. If I am putting a game in my game room, I am one of those people that is going to know I like it before I buy it. Well, I have bought a couple of games over the years I had barely played before buying, but they were 1.5K not 10K and there was little risk. I think there are lot of guys like me, but there are a lot of guys who are willing to just go for it based on theme or designer or brand or a quick stream. I have to believe that the higher prices and what many believe will be a larger hit on value on resale, is going to move some guys from the latter category to the former as they will become more selective in what they buy. The release of a half dozen titles in such a narrow window gave lots of options, which further drives selectivity. That variety is only going to increase and that will make every game a a bit riskier for all companies as people will be more selective.
How small can your run be and still be profitable? If a game is a sales disaster, how long until your next game is ready?
The only issue I ever had with the game was replacing the membrane rollover strip on the barrel lock. Solid.
The beer pour never gets old.
The only negative for me was not highlighting the big TITTIES Heidi’s pouring the beer ala the famous slot Vegas slot machine.
And the barrel shot takes a bit to dial in.
So underrated. I’ve owned a lot of games and Oktoberfest checks the FUN box and doesn’t get old based on the different ways to play as you mention
Quoted from rosh:I am one of those people that is going to know I like it before I buy it. Well, I have bought a couple of games over the years I had barely played before buying, but they were 1.5K not 10K and there was little risk. I think there are lot of guys like me, but there are a lot of guys who are willing to just go for it based on theme or designer or brand or a quick stream. I have to believe that the higher prices and what many believe will be a larger hit on value on resale, is going to move some guys from the latter category to the former as they will become more selective in what they buy.
This is the new narrative of pinball buyers, going from FOMO purchasing, to try it before you buy. Or just waiting it out till prices come way down to where they should have been to begin with via the secondary market.
NIB buyers are the one’s taking the huge hit. Wonder how long they’ll do that, till sales tank altogether? Think we might be seeing that now with Venom…
Quoted from Thunderbird:This is the new narrative of pinball buyers, going from FOMO purchasing, to try it before you buy. Or just waiting it out till prices come way down to where they should have been to begin with via the secondary market.
NIB buyers are the one’s taking the huge hit. Wonder how long they’ll do that, till sales tank altogether? Think we might be seeing that now with Venom…
The penguins are scrambling to jump back onto the Ice shelf. The rescue boats aren’t coming
Like with anything else. There is always a regression back to the mean.
And pinball, thanks to Covid, got WAY ahead of itself.
These guys are selling boxes of lights. Same box different theme and layout.
When price goes crazy the demand is “elastic”.
Apple? Pepsi? Inelastic.
Apple has “services revenue” on their 2 billion installed user base. $21 billion per qtr and growing.
Selling boxes without an annuity stream plan? Tough business model longer term.
Gotta monetize the annuity streams of what is already sold. But they seem clueless and blinded by selling boxes greed
A Disney executive? That company is in the toilet. This one is about to be
They ramped up their fixed overhead based on the Covid demand continuing. Oops
Quoted from iceman44:Like with anything else. There is always a regression back to the mean.
And pinball, thanks to Covid, got WAY ahead of itself.
These guys are selling boxes of lights. Same box different theme and layout.
When price goes crazy the demand is “elastic”.
Apple? Pepsi? Inelastic.
Apple has “services revenue” on their 2 billion installed user base. $21 billion per qtr and growing.
Selling boxes without an annuity stream plan? Tough business model longer term.
Gotta monetize the annuity streams of what is already sold. But they seem clueless and blinded by selling boxes greed
A Disney executive? That company is in the toilet. This one is about to be
They ramped up their fixed overhead based on the Covid demand continuing. Oops
A paragraph full of corporate strategy ideas. Ramping up, even doubling up manufacturing to meet a once in an era false demand (covid) and raising prices to colossal highs at the same time is plain stupidity. Following the foibles of Disney escapades is a fools game. Does anyone from that business model have half a brain? Their stock prices don’t think so.
Some suggest to follow the Gillette or Xerox business model of lower entry price points but constant larger revenue steams. By bringing entry prices way down to a reasonable level, then charge an annual or monthly annuity stream for code/IC (which I would hate). Market size will increase substantially, allowing thousands, even millions into the market place. Boxes of lights of huge greed aren’t the way forward. But then they’d really have to increase production capacity's. The old pinball business model might be going the way of the Dodo bird if they don’t balance pricing against BOM.
Quoted from Thunderbird:A paragraph full of corporate strategy wisdom. Ramping up, even doubling up manufacturing to meet a once in an era false demand (covid) and raising prices to colossal highs at the same time is plain stupidity. Following the foibles of Disney escapades is a fools game. Does anyone from that business model have half a brain? Their stock prices don’t think so.
Follow the Gillette or Xerox business model of lower entry price points but constant larger revenue steam wisdom. By bringing entry prices way down to a reasonable level, then charge an annual or monthly annuity stream for code/IC. Market size will increase substantially, allowing thousands, even millions into the market place. Boxes of lights of huge greed aren’t the way forward. But then they’d really have to increase production capacity's. The old pinball business model might be going the way of the Dodo bird and fast.
Noooo! The guy talking about Stern costing too much is encouraging them to charge a monthly subscription. Nothing would make me lose interest in Stern faster.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Noooo! The guy talking about Stern costing too much is encouraging them to charge a monthly subscription. Nothing would make me lose interest in Stern faster.
Agreed, slightly changed my remarks above, away from calling it “wisdom” because I agree with you. Discussing only because it’s a popular market strategy to reduce initial costs, but increase constant revenue flows. You and I wouldn’t like it for sure. We’d rather have GZ pricing with maybe a 10% increase to allow for inflation, not a 43% surge. I’m with you, leave the constant revenue stream out of it. We want to own our music, not rent it, lol.
Quoted from Thunderbird:A paragraph full of corporate strategy wisdom. Ramping up, even doubling up manufacturing to meet a once in an era false demand (covid) and raising prices to colossal highs at the same time is plain stupidity. Following the foibles of Disney escapades is a fools game. Does anyone from that business model have half a brain? Their stock prices don’t think so.
Follow the Gillette or Xerox business model of lower entry price points but constant larger revenue steam wisdom. By bringing entry prices way down to a reasonable level, then charge an annual or monthly annuity stream for code/IC. Market size will increase substantially, allowing thousands, even millions into the market place. Boxes of lights of huge greed aren’t the way forward. But then they’d really have to increase production capacity's. The old pinball business model might be going the way of the Dodo bird and fast.
Yeah, Insider Connected holds less than zero interest for me. DLC seems less analog and more PS5. Not in my collection. I’d sour on ownership before it was setup.
The allure of pinball is you can revisit whenever you wish. My collection is a patient desire I engage at my discretion. Timeless and always alluring seperate from the outside world. If I want a P2P I’ll use my iPhone.
Sandhurst
I loved my Oktoberfest sans the support. It was horrible.
Why on earth would use a toy pinball switch solution for the bar? The ball itself bridges two metal strips for the switch input, it hardly ever works on any of the 4 different machines I've played.
Same guy prolly said it was fine to put stand ups 3" above the flippers on Galactic tank turd.
Quoted from underlord:Yeah, Insider Connected holds less than zero interest for me. DLC seems less analog and more PS5. Not in my collection. I’d sour on ownership before it was setup.
The allure of pinball is you can revisit whenever you wish. My collection is a patient desire I engage at my discretion. Timeless and always alluring seperate from the outside world. If I want a P2P I’ll use my iPhone.
I think most of us would sour on further pinball NIB purchases, if DLC became the way going forward, along with super high prices. It does need to be separate from the outside world, but if someone wishes to engage others in head to head competition, IC could fill that role nicely.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:I loved my Oktoberfest sans the support. It was horrible.
Why on earth would use a toy pinball switch solution for the bar? The ball itself bridges two metal strips for the switch input, it hardly ever works on any of the 4 different machines I've played.
Same guy prolly said it was fine to put stand ups 3" above the flippers on Galactic tank turd.
That was Dennis Nordman. He was always a great guy but a hit or miss designer.
Quoted from iceman44:More people should look at great games like Oktoberfest. It’s fantastic for all the reasons noted above.
And great value.
Until now, people just followed the lead penguins jumping off the iceberg into the Stern ocean.
Penguin in the back says, “what are we doing” to the one next to him. “I don’t know, just following the group”.
Now that you WILL lose $$$. Those penguins might think twice
“Flow is the new toy”. Lol
With Venom, isnt it sniping shots way up the playfield.
FanFun!
Quoted from iceman44:More people should look at great games like Oktoberfest. It’s fantastic for all the reasons noted above.
And great value.
Until now, people just followed the lead penguins jumping off the iceberg into the Stern ocean.
Penguin in the back says, “what are we doing” to the one next to him. “I don’t know, just following the group”.
Now that you WILL lose $$$. Those penguins might think twice
“Flow is the new toy”. Lol
The playfield on Oktoberfest has always looked loaded and fun but it's the presentation of everything else (animations, callouts) in the game that comes across a bit cheap and cheesy IMO. These animations are pretty terrible and no where near the level of quality that Stern, and especially JJP put out.
Screenshot 2023-08-12 233922 (resized).jpg
Screenshot 2023-08-12 233941 (resized).jpg
Screenshot 2023-08-12 234427 (resized).jpg
Octoberfest has always looked fun to me, but liked the first art package better, sans the monkey’s. 
Did anyone actually get that first art package?
Quoted from PanzerFreak:The playfield on Oktoberfest has always looked loaded and fun but it's the presentation of everything else (animations, callouts) in the game that comes across a bit cheap and cheesy IMO. These animations are pretty terrible and no where near the level of quality that Stern, and especially JJP put out.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Oktoberfest is a better TS. By wide margin.
I’m thankful that I was able to unload my CE NIB before the bottom dropped out.
TS sucks. For twice the $$
I’ll suggest that price increases and the inevitable market response to too many price increases benefits Stern the most. Everyone made the $’s off of the price increases through 2021-2022 as improved margins. When the market retracts, im guessing Stern is in best situation with: 1) bigger backlog of preorders than other suppliers, 2) most cost efficient manufacturing and lowest BOM, 3) greatest financial stability. If NIBs prices have to be cut, Stern will be in best position to do so and still make money. If a few manufacturers go under, Stern will survive and eventually capture those lost sales too.
I bet Stern executives were absolutely loving it when JJP took the lead in recent price increases: hurting JJP probably the most and benefiting Stern the most in the long run. (To a degree Spooky and CGC road JJPs coattails and benefitted in the short term too through ‘more modest’ increases)
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:I'm thinking the OP may need this treatment in order to ease some of his Stern butthurt.
[quoted image]
Or this, here ya go lil buddy.
cream (resized).jpgQuoted from iceman44:Oktoberfest is a better TS. By wide margin.
I’m thankful that I was able to unload my CE NIB before the bottom dropped out.
TS sucks. For twice the $$
What a joke. Toy Story is a great game and beats the snot of Oktoberfest, there's no comparison there. Code, animations, callouts, and mechs are all superior IMO. You can have your PS1 era animations and terrible callouts.
Did you sell your Bond LE before the bottom dropped out?
Quoted from iceman44:The only issue I ever had with the game was replacing the membrane rollover strip on the barrel lock. Solid.
The beer pour never gets old.
The only negative for me was not highlighting the big TITTIES Heidi’s pouring the beer ala the famous slot Vegas slot machine.
And the barrel shot takes a bit to dial in.
So underrated. I’ve owned a lot of games and Oktoberfest checks the FUN box and doesn’t get old based on the different ways to play as you mention
I have to get out and play one of these .I might tonight I think there’s one a hour away .
Quoted from PanzerFreak:No matter what happens I can't wait to see JJP's next professional looking pinball trailer and another terrible cheesy one from Stern. Guess Stern doesn't care too much when they are selling so many games.
JJP
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Stern
[quoted image]
What do you mean? Stern had the sweetest pin promo ever with Transformers. Only problem is that the main feature of the promo had Gomez playing with a transforming toy. Only problem is that it never actually showed up in the actual game.
Let’s discuss Jaws: (Heard this from others) Stern might only have the name and one song, just like JP has name and one song. JP was more value priced compared to BOM for under $10k for all three models. Elwin is good, but is his layout going to be worth $7k to $13K??? Absolutely not at Stern’s sky high pricing, with only a couple of mechs most likely included. Jaws just might be a game collecting dust in the inventories of the poor distributor stuck with it, just like Elwin’s Bond60th. Can’t hardly give it away. Proof good Elwin layouts don’t sell at extreme pricing. LEs for Bond, FF, and Venom, are right now collecting dust at a distro near you.
Would this be the same scenario if Jaws was more value priced like GZ? No, it would be an instant sell out at those more balanced prices compared to BOM. Stern has done a good job at destroying their market and the secondary market is already showing us the results of such sky high pricing.
1. What do you think will happen with the sale promo of Jaws coming in January/February?
2. Will $$$tern intro an even new higher price than now? (Typically intro higher pricing with Elwin pins.)
3. Will the faithful Stern buyers continue to reject $$$tern scalper pricing?
IMG_0946 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from usandthem:What do you mean? Stern had the sweetest pin promo ever with Transformers. Only problem is that the main feature of the promo had Gomez playing with a transforming toy. Only problem is that it never actually showed up in the actual game.
And that did lasting damage to sales. That and the Optimus Prime block that Gomez refused to acknowledge for over a year. Until they fixed it too late.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Let’s discuss Jaws: (Heard this from others) Stern will only have the name and one song, just like JP has name and one song. JP was more value priced compared to BOM for under $10k for all three models. Elwin is good, but is his layout going to be worth $7k to $13K??? Absolutely not at Stern’s sky high pricing, with only a couple of mechs most likely included. Jaws just might be a game collecting dust in the inventories of the poor distributor stuck with it, just like Elwin’s Bond60th. Can’t hardly give it away. Proof good Elwin layouts don’t sell at extreme pricing. LEs for Bond, FF, and Venom, are right now collecting dust at a distro near you.
Would this be the same scenario if Jaws was more value priced like GZ? No, it would be an instant sell out at those more balanced prices compared to BOM. Stern has done a good job at destroying their market and the secondary market is already showing us the results of such sky high pricing.
1. What do you think will happen with the sale promo of Jaws coming in January/February?
2. Will $$$tern intro an even new higher price than now? (Typically intro higher pricing with Elwin pins.)
3. Will the faithful Stern buyers continue to reject $$$tern scalper pricing?
[quoted image]
‘Heard this from others?’ Please let us know what you’ve heard. Jaws License shows full dvd assets.
Quoted from underlord:‘Heard this from others?’ Please let us know what you’ve heard. Jaws License shows full dvd assets.
Just rumors, none of us know for sure. But even with full assets, is that enough on the LCD to suck us in at $7k to $13k, plus tax and shipping? Or even possibly another price hike? Is $$$tern going to gouge us even further to pay for their over indulgence in a new fangled factory???
Quoted from Thunderbird:Just rumors, none of us know for sure. But even with full assets, is that enough on the LCD to suck us in at $7k to $13k, plus tax and shipping? Or even possibly another price hike? Is $$$tern going to gouge us even further to pay for their over indulgence in a new fangled factory???
Stern does not seem to be playing the long game here, but trying to maximize manufacturing. If they build a third more inventory then prices will retreat.
Their timing the market for growth is terrible, Mr. Davis seems to be exercising growth and pricing by the typical ceo playbook. So how this plays out will be interesting.
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