(Topic ID: 340106)

Flip Flops falling out of the sky - First pin, first resto - ***COMPLETE ***

By ManbearpigOG

9 months ago


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  • Latest reply 36 days ago by Spunky1562
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There are 209 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 5.
#51 8 months ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

The mothers Mag is to polish up the contacts to make sure the pad is super clean. The super lube just helps the spider glide. Doesn’t help as much with continuity

Gonna print new coil paper wraps too?

Ah, I used the Dremel mini wire wheel to "polish" them up. The same wire wheel guys use to clean all the leaf contacts. It looks much cleaner in real life.

I haven't decided if I want to go that far. I would like to create all the board markings in Photoshop and reprint them. All the ones that are still there are super gross. I looked at that guys website (http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/) that has all the recreation stuff, but couldn't find anything besides score cards for Flip Flop. I only have a laser printer so no color, but that's probably fine. I might want to find a little thicker paper than standard.

#52 8 months ago

So last Friday I was able to start rebuilding the mech board. In a few hours I didn’t get that far though, cause it was taking me 10-15 minutes per coil. Assembled and adjusted each contact as I went down the board. It was very satisfying as it started to come together.

Over the weekend I couldn’t bring myself to even step foot in the shed as the real feel was 115° so we went to the ocean instead.

Today I forced myself out there after work and it was still hot, but it’s not going to build itself. All the coils are back in place, fixed the chewed wires, took apart the switch and got it all cleaned up, and cleaned all the Jones connectors as best as I could. I have replacement fuse terminals and I’m going to need them, the originals are super weak and brittle.

I waited to do the score motor switches cause I wasn’t sure how to actually tackle it. I have to take it apart cause now it looks dirty compared to all the other components. Trying to figure out how to keep them together and soak the screws I saw the QTips on the bench, perfect! Numbered them in hopes the pen doesn’t wear off, cause Sharpie does. Unfortunately I have 3 that are super rusty, so I dripped some Evapo on them and hope it’ll allow them to turn tomorrow.

Man it’s looking beautiful already!

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#53 8 months ago

When you get your score motor back together, go through the schematic and circle all the score motor switches. They will be in a circle with letter and number designations. Like 1A, 1B, 1C and so on. Highlight them. Find the normally open and normally closed markings per switch on the schematic. Then adjust your switches accordingly while your relay board is out. This will make your life easier when troubleshooting because you have already set and checked. The switch stat starts with A at the bottom and increments as you add stacks vertically.

#54 8 months ago
Quoted from Skidave:

When you get your score motor back together, go through the schematic and circle all the score motor switches. They will be in a circle with letter and number designations. Like 1A, 1B, 1C and so on. Highlight them. Find the normally open and normally closed markings per switch on the schematic. Then adjust your switches accordingly while your relay board is out. This will make your life easier when troubleshooting because you have already set and checked. The switch stat starts with A at the bottom and increments as you add stacks vertically.

I was actually reading an article about the open/close Switch thing. I’ll have to look at my included documentation.

My current issue is removing the last few screws. I would just cut them off, but I can’t find replacements. I think they are 5-44 but I have no way to verify and/or even buy more, especially at 3 inches. Ran to Lowe’s and HF…. after searching the internet all day. Couldn’t find anything here on Pinside either ☹️

#55 8 months ago
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:

I was actually reading an article about the open/close Switch thing. I’ll have to look at my included documentation.
My current issue is removing the last few screws. I would just cut them off, but I can’t find replacements. I think they are 5-44 but I have no way to verify and/or even buy more, especially at 3 inches. Ran to Lowe’s and HF…. after searching the internet all day. Couldn’t find anything here on Pinside either ☹️

Do not cut them off. You will have to get a used score motor and hope to find replacements. I believe they are a number 5 screw. I have a local specialty hardware place that helps with my odd sizes. I actually replace most of the beat up playfield hardware with stainless hardware from the same store. I have had luck with Fastenal. They seem to be reducing their store front locations, but have ordered #3 and #5 screws from Fastenal.

If you can't get them loose, just clean around blades and contacts manually. You did the hard part by giving yourself better access. Just do it by hand carefully.

#56 8 months ago
Quoted from Skidave:

Do not cut them off.

Lol, I can get them cut out without damaging the threads or other parts of the machine. Pro tinkerer here
I ended up getting 2 more out and adding more soaking penetrant.
I actually made a new post about hardware, since I was having such a hard time locating some.
If I find time today, I might call PBR.

#57 8 months ago

I got them out! VICTORY! And I didn’t even break anything. I’m sure all the soaking helped, but as I do, I keep analyzing the problem over and over trying to find an alternate path.
So I grabbed a crescent wrench because I wanted it to be a 90°/square grab as to not crush anything. And a needle nose vise grip. Basically grabbed at just below the top so I could pivot the rusted plate, BOOM! It worked!
Obviously this wouldn’t have worked without all the penetrant, but I could tell by the ones I removed earlier that they were rusted down about a half inch.

Got the new fuse blocks installed and was working on the transformer (fingers cross it still works) and then a storm rolled in and killed the power. Georgia’s power infrastructure is trash, it’s always flashing and going out. So I gutted the rest of the cab and tossed what I could in the Evapo.

Tomorrow will be score reel leaf switch cleaning day and hopefully re assembly.

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#58 8 months ago

Pulled and cleaned up the parts I was soaking last night. I had already purchased a new sleeve for the shooter and thought I would test it out. No go. I did indeed crack out the old one, so there was one in there. This new one fits the shooter rod perfectly. I can jam it in there but the rod doesn't even move.

What's the best solution here?

I don't think I have a drill bit big enough to bore that hole, or is there thinner sleeves?

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#59 8 months ago

There are thinner shooter sleeves, but I'm not sure if this is the correct part for that era of Bally:
https://www.pinballlife.com/ball-shooter-sleeve.html

#60 8 months ago
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:

Pulled and cleaned up the parts I was soaking last night. I had already purchased a new sleeve for the shooter and thought I would test it out. No go. I did indeed crack out the old one, so there was one in there. This new one fits the shooter rod perfectly. I can jam it in there but the rod doesn't even move.
What's the best solution here?
I don't think I have a drill bit big enough to bore that hole, or is there thinner sleeves? [quoted image]

I don't think your shooter asm even requires a sleeve. I rebuilt many a Gottlieb and not needed.
Check out the Pbresource link, they don't show it for Bally either.
https://www.pbresource.com/shooterrod.html#K227

#61 8 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

There are thinner shooter sleeves, but I'm not sure if this is the correct part for that era of Bally:
https://www.pinballlife.com/ball-shooter-sleeve.html

Yeah, that's the one I have or similar from Marco.

Quoted from poppapin:

I don't think your shooter asm even requires a sleeve. I rebuilt many a Gottlieb and not needed.
Check out the Pbresource link, they don't show it for Bally either.
https://www.pbresource.com/shooterrod.html#K227

Interesting. I didn't even see this yesterday. I'm trying to learn their site, it's a little old school on the build side of things. I have a nice laundry list of things I need to grab. Looks like that guide is out everywhere. I'll have make due without for now. It's not going to stop me from that first plunge

#62 8 months ago
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:

I'm trying to learn their site, it's a little old school

Agree it's hard to find things. When in doubt, call or email. They're the go to for EM parts, especially Gottlieb.

#63 8 months ago

I rebuilt the plunger on my Old Chicago, same year as Flip Flop 1976, with the nyliner part #BLY-C537-22

PBR has it. It’s worth getting used to their ordering system. It takes me a little longer to put together an order but it helps to make sure I’m getting what I need.

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#64 8 months ago

Fun fact, some toilet scrubber containers are 12” tall. Half tonight, half tomorrow. Blocked it up and screwed out to the floor.
The wife did say, what the F are you doing when I took it out of the kids bathroom .

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#65 8 months ago

Get a few feet of some 4” pvc and some caps. Glue one end closed, then use it for legs, lockdown bars, etc.

Using the cap will greatly reduce loss of your evaporust to its namesake evaporation.

#66 8 months ago
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:

Fun fact, some toilet scrubber containers are 12” tall.

Whatever it takes. I like the cut of your jib!

#67 8 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Get a few feet of some 4” pvc and some caps. Glue one end closed, then use it for legs, lockdown bars, etc.
Using the cap will greatly reduce loss of your evaporust to its namesake evaporation.

I’ve seen this done and heard, but it’s just more stuff I don’t need laying around once I’m done. I used to have PVC glue but left it at my old house when I moved, cause I won’t be doing any plumbing here at the new place.
This project is already nickel and dime-in me. I have the Createx paint in my shopping cart, and that’s another $50, so skipping the PVC this time around is fine.

#68 8 months ago

Well the toilet scrubber tube worked just fine. Washed the parts off and threw some wax on them, flipped and back in the tube to get the other side.
Also with my morning coffee I got all the score reel leaf switches buffed out with the wire wheel. Hopefully I can get the attached and adjusted tonight.

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#69 8 months ago
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:

I’ve seen this done and heard, but it’s just more stuff I don’t need laying around once I’m done. I used to have PVC glue but left it at my old house when I moved, cause I won’t be doing any plumbing here at the new place.
This project is already nickel and dime-in me. I have the Createx paint in my shopping cart, and that’s another $50, so skipping the PVC this time around is fine.

Yes, there are definitely some up front costs for the restore work.

I've bought more tools and such with each restore but now at the point where costs are just in the replacement pin parts and consumables like Naptha etc. I'm a fan of Simple Green too as it really does cut some of that nasty black sooty stuff off pretty easily.

Someone also suggested a wall paper pan for legs as another alternative to the PVC for long parts.

Amazing how well they clean up isn't it?

#70 8 months ago
Quoted from Garrett:

Yes, there are definitely some up front costs for the restore work.
I've bought more tools and such with each restore but now at the point where costs are just in the replacement pin parts and consumables like Naptha etc. I'm a fan of Simple Green too as it really does cut some of that nasty black sooty stuff off pretty easily.
Someone also suggested a wall paper pan for legs as another alternative to the PVC for long parts.
Amazing how well they clean up isn't it?

It was a silly comment as I knew coming into this it wasn't going to be free. And I already own waaaayyyy too many tools, so those weren't really a need. It's a lot of cleaning supplies which oddly enough are not cheap. The naptha and evapo was like $60 by itself. I figure if I can save $20 or so on not buying some PVC at the moment I'm game. But like you stated, now I have a lot of the stuff I will need when I buy a second one after I finish this one

So do you also soak stuff in Simple Green vs Evapo some times?

#71 8 months ago
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:

So do you also soak stuff in Simple Green vs Evapo some times?

Don't want to put words in his mouth, but I usually clean everything before going into the evapo, so that it's only battling rust. Dirt & grime will build up sludge in your evapo and weaken it.

#72 8 months ago

Evaporust also seems to disappear faster than water if you let it sit out, or maybe it's just perception since it cost so much more than water. If you keep it sealed, you can reuse it time and time and time again. Someone recently posted that they strain it through an old t-shirt. I'll need to try that because the time I strained it through coffee filters was a PITA.

#73 8 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

Don't want to put words in his mouth, but I usually clean everything before going into the evapo, so that it's only battling rust. Dirt & grime will build up sludge in your evapo and weaken it.

Exactly what I found out to do.

Simple Green it to get the worst of the goo off before the Evapo.

I'd have to look at one of mrm_4's retsore threads, I think he may have soaked leaf switches in it. Simple Green won't hurt them at all. It does a good job of getting that soot off them and the contacts. And anywhere that soot is found. I'm not a fan of the smell

I keep my Evapo covered too. But do not seal the container with metal in the Evapo, as it does outgas. I was surprised at the pressure it generated

#74 8 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Someone recently posted that they strain it through an old t-shirt.

This! I was trying to decide how to filter it, if a paint filter would even work. But I have so many old shirts for shop rags.... currently 4 in use with this resto

Also I didn't even think about pre washing the lockdown or coin door parts. I guess since I washed the whole mech I had forgotten that all those parts were pre washed. It seemed like the Evapo wasn't working as good, oops. All the stuff is coming out very clean, and I cant tell if its old soda/beer/juice or mouse pee that I'm removing. I'm sure in the end this thing is going to smell 100x better though.

#75 8 months ago

Well that was a chore, trying to put these back on and make sure they are lined up nicely. All original hardware was reused. It was pretty easy to readjust each one this way. I can’t even imagine how an operator back in that day or even now can get in there to clean and adjust these.

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#76 8 months ago

All wires fixed and a new 15’ plug added. The mech board is basically 98% complete. Waiting on one new coil and I need to finish creating new labels.

Yesterday I complete disassemble the coin door except the coin mech and soaked it over night. I don’t much like the 24 hour soak. I want able to get it all pulled right away this morning and had to wait until after work. I think it’s possible for stuff to be in there “too long”. Anyway it all looks great now after buffing it. I realized I have hand buffed more pieces of metal in the last month than I ever have on any project, even a car. The actual coin door was probably kicked a few times in the last almost 50 years, I tried using a block and a dead blow. It kind of worked and I did get it tweaked back a little bit too we’re in satisfied without putting more kinks in it. Hopefully reassembly tomorrow.

Also running Evapo though a shirt works awesome!

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#77 8 months ago

So before disassembly I think about the amount of pictures I’ve taken and go “that’ll do, I should have plenty (like 30+easily)”. Then I go to assemble and there’s always a few screws that I’m like “what, how did that not end up in a picture”.

All back together and it looks great. Everything moves as it should with no sticking or dragging. I didn’t have a quarter on me to test the chute tonight, but easily adjusted now.

I forgot to post this the other day. The tilt Bob has a broken wire soldered to it, not sure where that goes but I assume it does belong there.

Next up, need to build a mini playfield mount and dig in…… after taking even more pictures, probably like 100 this time.

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#78 8 months ago

Looks great!

The wire on the tilt bob was factory installed. It terminates on one of the screws on the ball track for the tilt assembly.

I’ll try and post a pic

EDIT: Correction, it goes to the bracket that is holding the tilt bob and terminated with a wire tied into the tilt circuit. It's hard to see the wire in this picture but all I have on my phone. Can get a clearer picture later tonight.

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#79 8 months ago
Quoted from Garrett:

Looks great!
The wire on the tilt bob was factory installed. It terminates on one of the screws on the ball track for the tilt assembly.
I’ll try and post a pic
EDIT: Correction, it goes to the bracket that is holding the tilt bob and terminated with a wire tied into the tilt circuit. It's hard to see the wire in this picture but all I have on my phone. Can get a clearer picture later tonight.
[quoted image]

Just right here it looks like. so the extra 6 inches I added was not necessary.

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#80 8 months ago
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#81 8 months ago

This is great work, following.

#82 8 months ago

Well looking through my pre tear down, here we are Thanks Garrett

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#83 8 months ago

Last night I welded up a little mounting system for the PF. Tapped in some 1/4-20 so I can level it when I start the clear process. Manufactured a my own custom punch out of a rod. PF sits on it really nice with no wobble. Started to pull parts, but there's a storm-a-brewing (aka hurricane), so I'm sure it's on hold for a few days again.

Completely finished the lower mech board 100 percent now. Quite a transformation! New 2800 coil added and all my custom labels I remade. I have 2 different staple guns and neither could penetrate the plywood, so I used E6000 and glued them down. Turns out the craft paper I used (90 weight looks real) had a slight blue hue to it.

Shooter rod bushing fail to some, but a win in my book. I looked at PBR and wasn't going to pay $5 for one, so I ordered one from Marco for $1.20. Said it was the right one, but nope, way too big. I even tried to cut it on an angle but it just didn't work, said F it and drilled it out. But hey, now it can use a standard sleeve for the rest of its life.

Last, I have an ugly operator sticker. I really want to remove it, but this looks like a risky one. It is kind of papery but the paint on the apron seems like it will come off easily. I read in a quick search WD-40 soak, any of you watchers ever try that?

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#84 8 months ago
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:

Last night I welded up a little mounting system for the PF. Tapped in some 1/4-20 so I can level it when I start the clear process. Manufactured a my own custom punch out of a rod. PF sits on it really nice with no wobble. Started to pull parts, but there's a storm-a-brewing (aka hurricane), so I'm sure it's on hold for a few days again.
Completely finished the lower mech board 100 percent now. Quite a transformation! New 2800 coil added and all my custom labels I remade. I have 2 different staple guns and neither could penetrate the plywood, so I used E6000 and glued them down. Turns out the craft paper I used (90 weight looks real) had a slight blue hue to it.
Shooter rod bushing fail to some, but a win in my book. I looked at PBR and wasn't going to pay $5 for one, so I ordered one from Marco for $1.20. Said it was the right one, but nope, way too big. I even tried to cut it on an angle but it just didn't work, said F it and drilled it out. But hey, now it can use a standard sleeve for the rest of its life.
Last, I have an ugly operator sticker. I really want to remove it, but this looks like a risky one. It is kind of papery but the paint on the apron seems like it will come off easily. I read in a quick search WD-40 soak, any of you watchers ever try that?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Bah, always frustrating when operators slap their stickers on an apron. Scan that apron before you start removing the sticker so you have a way to recreate the art if disaster strikes.

#85 8 months ago

Not a bad idea at all on opening up the shooter for a standard sleeve.

#86 8 months ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

Bah, always frustrating when operators slap their stickers on an apron. Scan that apron before you start removing the sticker so you have a way to recreate the art if disaster strikes.

Back in the early 00's, I would call numbers like that to see if they'd sell a game I wanted off their route. Not one time did it work. Almost did once for a Medieval Madness. I quickly sold my Theatre of Magic DIRT F'ING CHEAP to raise funds and then the operator backed out on the deal.

#87 8 months ago

That is looking awesome!! Man I wish I worked that fast. I think my build will take years at this point.

#88 8 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Back in the early 00's, I would call numbers like that to see if they'd sell a game I wanted off their route. Not one time did it work. Almost did once for a Medieval Madness. I quickly sold my Theatre of Magic DIRT F'ING CHEAP to raise funds and then the operator backed out on the deal.

Funny thing is I looked them up. Still in business in FL under the same name. Did a Google maps drive by and it looks like a small operation, but over 50 years strong.

Quoted from jazc4:

That is looking awesome!! Man I wish I worked that fast. I think my build will take years at this point.

I head out to the shed almost every night after work and put in an hour or two. Then when the weekend comes I think I'll be able to spend the whole day out there and the hunny-do list shows up with a cup of coffee

Quoted from A_Bord:

Bah, always frustrating when operators slap their stickers on an apron. Scan that apron before you start removing the sticker so you have a way to recreate the art if disaster strikes.

It was part of the whole scan package I will attempt. I couldn't track down an HP so I bought a cheap Canon LiDE300 that I'm going to de-case. Unfortunately it wont scan upside down so I need to build up around it. Just another side project to support the community.

#89 7 months ago

Every time I walk out to the shed and think, this is only going to take a few minutes… I end up being out there for over 2 hours.

Playfield has been cleaned off. I did one wipe down with Naptha and it was so dirty. Pictures don’t really show the difference. And working on both sides at one time, I wish I had room for a rotisserie. Maybe by the next restore right.
Using my home made punch was super slick and I realized it took me longer to create it than it took to use it tonight .
Totally dreading cleaning all the contacts under the PF too. I honestly think the mech board was easier.

Probably going to try scanning it before I hit it with the ME/91% just in case.

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#90 7 months ago

Funny how it does end up being hours.

It’s looking good!

#91 7 months ago

Progress! Friday morning I scanned the entire playfield and all the plastics. Turns out the cat scratcher were just The right height to match the scanner. Since I’m basically real pinball dumb (46 days ago) I had ordered trans yellow pop centers thinking “these will be fun and match the new flipper bands” not knowing the correct shape on the originals. So I modeled and printed adapters so you can use any of the newer pop center with old caps. (I’ll add it to Printables after I tweak it.)

Just finished cleaning the playfield. That was scary. Even after all the reading I really felt like I had no idea what I was doing. Took the ME and cut it into 3rds. Got it wet and scrubbed about a 5x5” square at a time, then wiped with the Naptha…. over and over and over. I think I did the whole thing like 3 times. Then I decided to try the vid Mylar removal. I was truly scared and now I’m a believer. Holy WOW, it works!! I did scrub a little hard on the right out, so that sucks. I was really trying to get the wax out of the missing paint spots. They loved to wax this thing, which brings me to my questions for anyone that’s here.

I assume I need to remove every single piece of wax I can find, correct?

Is there a simple way to clean the star roll over?

How do you color match when there are still shades of dirt? Like by the cowboy boot. There is spots all over that I can’t get all the brownish out.

I asked this on the 2k thread, but no answer. Can I use triple thick for my first coat so I have more time to do touch ups? I’m going to use spray max I think and don’t want to activate it and then need to paint touch up for 3 days.

One last one. The super paper thin washers on the coils. Can that be paper? I noticed on the coin door it’s paper instead of that thin brass washer, but all the mech board and a bunch under the PF have them…. and I’m missing a bunch due to broken screws.

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#92 7 months ago

It cleaned up great without much paint loss. Looks good.

Sorry I can’t answer your questions regarding auto clear.

#93 7 months ago

I don't think I would use triple thick without a good test first. Also not sure how sandable it is.

A can of 2k is cheap compared to the hours it would take to fix a botched clear job.

#94 7 months ago

Welp. I couldn’t find any internet .32mm (ish) brass washers for the coils. So I made some fizzy water aluminum washers . Cleaning all the contacts on the bottom of the playfield today. Decided to pull this whole bank off and clean then like the mech board. Slow and steady. I bought one of those flexstick things store sanding contacts, I think that’ll just go in the tool box. Didn’t think it was doing a good enough job.

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#95 7 months ago

Little project I started last night and messed with today. The original lights up at the top of the PF have a mask on them to project the light to the flip flops. Since I am replacing all of them with warm LEDs I needed to model up my own mask. Took a few color tries and then finally modified to a 2 color so the inside could be black. It should look decent on the table and will be very functional.
Since I was playing around with modeling I needed to make a spacer for my key cylinder since the one I got was a little long, and then why not some key chains to match the game, and some leg spacers in red too.

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#96 7 months ago
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:

The original lights up at the top of the PF have a mask on them to project the light to the flip flops.

Yes, the original ones are metal, and are hard to come by if they're missing.

#97 7 months ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Yes, the original ones are metal, and are hard to come by if they're missing.

This one on mine almost feel like a rubber. I plan to keep them connected to their current bulbs as they feel brittle. I’ll just put them in the coin box with the other original goodies.

Do you think the home made aluminum cab washers with with on the coils? I know you are the one who commented that I must put a washer in there when rebuilding.

#98 7 months ago
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:

Do you think the home made aluminum cab washers with with on the coils? I know you are the one who commented that I must put a washer in there when rebuilding.

The non-ferrous washers are necessary to provide proper magnetic insulation. Without them, the armature plate can stick to the coil core even after power is off. I'm not sure if aluminum will work, and even so, they may not be thick enough to provide the necessary isolation.

#99 7 months ago

Good to know. At least aluminum is non ferrous, but it is a hair thinner than the original. Maybe I can double it up. All the brass ones I bought are way too thick.

1 week later
#100 7 months ago

Trying to finish up the bottom of the PF so I can start my clear. The bonus unit match has slop (I think) and doesn’t seem to catch correctly.

Is there some way to take the slop out?

Edit-
Since I first posted this I tightened the bolt and nut at the red arrow. That helped a little, like occasionally it will move to the next tooth. I know if I bent the tip at the blue arrow I could get it to work flawless, but I assume there’s actually something I can adjust instead of bending things.

Finished cleaning and re sleeving all the coils. I skipped the flippers cause they’re brass, they seem nicer than plastic. But if they aren’t please let me know and I’ll swap those as well. One coil was missing the giant spacer so aluminum can and punch to the rescue again.

3D printed some socket caps/hole plugs. I made 100 hoping to use them on the back box so I could add a fresh coat of white, but those sockets have a little nub .

Tomorrow is coat one of 2k. I’m scared.

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