(Topic ID: 335797)

Flash system 6 mpu blanking signal

By dmartin244

1 year ago


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  • 36 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by joetechbob
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#6 1 year ago
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#17 12 months ago
Quoted from dmartin244:

there’s something wrong with the blinking signal circuit itself?

Quoted from barakandl:

Keep in mind blanking being low is almost always a symptom of a locked up MPU, not the cause of it being locked it.

Quoted from ChrisHibler:

As barakandl mentioned above, lack of blanking is almost never caused by a failed blanking circuit.
The blanking circuit is doing it's job buy preventing the software from driving the hardware into a possibly damaging condition.
The blanking circuit that Williams used (and DE too) remained unchanged from System 3 all the way to System 11.
A 555 timer is configured as a "missing pulse detector", with a specific "time out".
I've added info about the blanking circuit into the PinWiki Data East section. You can find it here to use as a reference:
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Data_East/Sega#Blanking_Signal_Stuck_Low_or_Pulsing
For your System 6 MPU, the "reset" pulse to the 555 timer originates at IC18, pin 4.
IC18 is the PIA that is in the display section.
If that PIA isn't being updated so that it pulses pin 4 within the "timeout period" of the 555 timer, then blanking will be pulled low.
It's a virtual certainty that the microprocessor isn't running.

#20 12 months ago
Quoted from dmartin244:

I'm obviously missing something "obvious" here. So if not the blanking circuit and everything else is checking out, where to look next?

Sorry. I generally try to nudge people in the correct direction rather than being explicit about it. It is much more rewarding when you figure it out for yourself (with or without a nudge) than to be pointed directly. Some people don't care for it and prefer to be given the fish rather than learn how to fish. I can never tell but always default to thinking that people would rather learn how to fish. If you didn't want to learn then you should just pay a repair technician to fix the board.

Quoted from dmartin244:

So if the diagnostic LED test passes and the board seems to be booting as it should (LED's blink at power up and then turn off), what is failing?

Plenty of things could be failing. That's the diagnostic challenge. Finding where the failure is. If you expect someone to say "I've seen this before and it's obviously this" then you should send the board out for repair. Think of a non-functioning board like presenting to your physician with "I have a headache". If your physician says "I've seen headache before and it must be a migraine" then go find another physician. There are a myriad of causes for headache from simple stress to metastases. It needs to be investigated.

Quoted from dmartin244:

I should note that pin 4 on IC18 does not "pulse" with a logic probe when the game is turned on. I don't know if this tells me anything but thought it was worth noting because of one of the earlier comments.

The pin will only start pulsing if the software is updating the display. I believe this happens during the ISR. PA2 of the display PIA is part of the 4-bit number for the digit strobe. The software has to strobe all 16 digits to produce the correct result on the display. It must strobe then CONSTANTLY. Hence, the software must be executing.

Your board falls into the category of "no boot" at this stage. You might think it has started as the LEDs blink. That's true. It does execute software. It just doesn't execute the main loop of the software. The processor works. It is either reading the wrong code to execute or the code is reading the wrong data and executing incorrectly due to the invalid input. Unless you put a hardware debugger on the processor, you won't be able to find out what the software is doing. It actually doesn't matter. Your board does not work properly.

Somewhat related, the thread @ https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/i-fried-my-system-11-cpu-board-now-what describes a diagnostic and methodical way to process these boards. The cause for the circumstances are different but the net result is the same. Your board doesn't work.

My suggestion for the next step is to use the Leon to ensure that all the PIA ports are operating correctly. Make sure that you test the input port of the switch PIA as well. Right now, you don't know if the PIA is behaving incorrectly and causing the software to "crash" which results in the enabling of the blanking circuit.

#22 12 months ago
Quoted from dmartin244:

I’ll take what’s been given here and do some more probing, etc. I do believe the problem lies somewhere around IC18

When dealing with boards, always suspect prior work. Even your own. In your image above, it looks like someone has done some work with IC11 - the switch matrix PIA.

If you want better advice, post a well illuminated and in-focus image of the boards. Both boards. Both sides.

Otherwise, start probing around. Use the schematics as a guide as to what should be connected to where.

1 week later
#30 11 months ago
Quoted from dmartin244:

Power on and LEDs flash like they are supposed to on/off. IC18 Pins 2 thru 17 are alternating high and low with logic probe.

This shows that IC18 (PIA ports A and B) are functioning.

Quoted from Theonlylilo:

Good to know that output pin 2-17 of PIA are pulsing H/L as per manual, but remind that the test program will be executed even if the PIA has problems so your problem is elsewhere.

Yep. The problem is not IC18.

OP: Here's a suggestion that seems to have been overlooked.

Quoted from DumbAss:

When dealing with boards, always suspect prior work. Even your own. In your image above, it looks like someone has done some work with IC11 - the switch matrix PIA.
If you want better advice, post a well illuminated and in-focus image of the boards. Both boards. Both sides.

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