(Topic ID: 303953)

Comet switch column issue after flipper rebuild

By noiseprisoner

2 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Rikoshay
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Comet sw matrix (resized).jpg
#1 2 years ago

I have an issue with my Comet machine that cropped up last night. I recently acquired this game and have had it working great now for several weeks, no issues. Yesterday, the right flipper started losing power and I noticed the EOS switch was hanging by a thread. I had a flipper rebuild kit on hand so I rebuilt the right flipper and kept the existing lane change switch in the assembly. After I was finished, the flipper worked wonderfully but all sorts of odd issues started happening with the switches. After some testing, it appears to be column 4 which the lane change switch is on. Every switch on column 4 is triggering something incorrectly, with the exception of the 'Left Drain Special' switch that seems to be working okay (although I can't say 100%). I figured it was a diode issue on that column and triple-checked every switch in that column for anything unusual, then every switch on the playfield, and didn't see any broken wires, diodes, shorts, nothing. It's really odd that it literally worked fine right before I did the flipper rebuild and now these issues have cropped up. Any suggestions on what to check? Here are some of the items I've noticed in particular:

-Cycle Jump- Lower and Center Rings cause a tilt, Upper Ring triggers a credit
-Comet Ramp upper switch does nothing at all
-Dummy Dunk Tank Drop Target triggers the outhole
-Lane Change switch scores a bunch of points (unsure of what it's triggering)
-Right Drain Special does nothing at all
-Left Drain Special SEEMS to work but hard to tell if it may be triggering something else too

All other switches seem to be okay: Pops, slings, standups, top lane rollovers, corkscrew switch, tilts, service switches, etc.

I tried clipping the leads on the lane change switch to remove it from the circuit and get the same result on all the other switches.

I'm so stumped because I didn't touch anything else...

Comet sw matrix (resized).jpgComet sw matrix (resized).jpg
#2 2 years ago

Put the game in switch test via the coin door test buttons. Are all those switches all coming up as though they're being activated?

Either way--next step, while still in switch test: Unplug 1J8 and 1J10 from the CPU board (the switch matrix row and column connectors). With the connectors unplugged, the switch test shouldn't be showing any closed switches. If it still does, it's a problem with the CPU board. If the switches stop appearing closed with the connectors unplugged, it's most likely a problem on the playfield.

#3 2 years ago

So, in switch test, this is what I see:

With 1J8/1J10 unplugged- no switches are activated
With 1J8/1J10 plugged in- no switches are activated

Then, I tested pressing each switch individually and all of the problem switches in column 4 are activating every switch on their corresponding row.

For example-
Cycle Jump Upper activates every switch on Row 1
Cycle Jump Center activates every switch on Row 2
Cycle Jump Eject activates every switch on Row 3
Comet Ramp Upper activates every switch on Row 4
etc...

All 8 switches in column 4 activate all of their corresponding ROW switches.
What the heck does that mean?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

#4 2 years ago

Dang that's some weird behavior for sure! I would try using an alligator jumper clipped to pin 4 of 1J8 (the pin for switch column 4) and touch the other end of the jumper to each of the pins on 1J10 (the switch row pins), 1 at a time. That will simulate switch closures, and tell us if the CPU is working properly. If it only displays one switch for each pin you activate that way, you can rule out the CPU. If the problem persists, then it appears it could be a transistor/chip/PIA on the CPU. Otherwise, it could be a shorted switch lug, blade, or diode on one of those column 4 switches (at least that's the next thing I would check)...good luck!

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

Dang that's some weird behavior for sure! I would try using an alligator jumper clipped to pin 4 of 1J8 (the pin for switch column 4) and touch the other end of the jumper to each of the pins on 1J10 (the switch row pins), 1 at a time. That will simulate switch closures, and tell us if the CPU is working properly. If it only displays one switch for each pin you activate that way, you can rule out the CPU. If the problem persists, then it appears it could be a transistor/chip/PIA on the CPU. Otherwise, it could be a shorted switch lug, blade, or diode on one of those column 4 switches (at least that's the next thing I would check)...good luck!

So, I jumpered pin 4 of 1J8 to each pin of 1J10 and got the same exact results, every switch (pin) was activating the entire row of switches! Ugh. Any idea what might be bad on the board to cause this?

#6 2 years ago

Have you checked around both flipper assemblies for any 'bent' diodes that may have got knocked out of place?

Seems related to the lane change switch, you could try removing the green/yellow wire and/or the white with blue from the switch and see if the issue goes away?
Did you pull apart the lane change switch?

Unlikely but there is the switch PIA U15 that may be faulty?

#7 2 years ago

If socketed you could swap U14 for U15 and see if the issue goes from switch oddities to lamp oddities? Both are 6821 PIA's.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from noiseprisoner:

So, I jumpered pin 4 of 1J8 to each pin of 1J10 and got the same exact results, every switch (pin) was activating the entire row of switches! Ugh. Any idea what might be bad on the board to cause this?

Sounds like the column driver transistor might be bad/locked on. It's a 2N3904 at Q10. I'd start by checking it with your meter on diode test and compare readings with the other adjacent (presumably good) 2N3904 transistors.

Screenshot_20211113-071341.pngScreenshot_20211113-071341.png

The transistor you're looking for will be above the 1J8 connector:
Screenshot_20211113-071754.pngScreenshot_20211113-071754.png

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

Sounds like the column driver transistor might be bad/locked on. It's a 2N3904 at Q10. I'd start by checking it with your meter on diode test and compare readings with the other adjacent (presumably good) 2N3904 transistors.
[quoted image]
The transistor you're looking for will be above the 1J8 connector:
[quoted image]

That was it! Q10 was fried. I happened to have spares by some miracle and replaced it. I only tried the game briefly after the replacement but it seems to be working normally! Now I'll work on putting the lane change and flipper assembly back together and see how everything is playing.

frunch Thank you so much for the screenshots and explanation, it totally makes sense after thinking it through but I just couldn't wrap my head around it before. Thank you!

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

Have you checked around both flipper assemblies for any 'bent' diodes that may have got knocked out of place?
Seems related to the lane change switch, you could try removing the green/yellow wire and/or the white with blue from the switch and see if the issue goes away?
Did you pull apart the lane change switch?
Unlikely but there is the switch PIA U15 that may be faulty?

Thanks for the suggestion @rikoshay, I did check pretty carefully for diodes or switch problems and also took the lane change switch out of the circuit to eliminate that from the equation. Turned out the Q10 transistor was bad but I suspect the lane change switch may have been a contributor. It looks like someone hacked up the wrong type of switch and had the diode connected wrong. The odd thing is that it worked for many weeks just fine but maybe when I took it apart to rebuild the flipper something happened.

#11 2 years ago

Awesome!!!

That's great you had a spare on hand too, nothing like waiting for a $0.25 part to come in the mail

Def keep us updated if there's any further trouble. Hopefully that's it though!

#12 2 years ago

Great she's back to working, well done

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