(Topic ID: 193737)

CfH Spirit of 76 / Pioneer: Bonus Count Down

By rolf_martin_062

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by ajfclark
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Screenshot from 2017-07-24 09-28-33 (resized).png
0Spirit76-Work-17 (resized).jpg
20170723_193455 (resized).jpg
Screenshot from 2017-07-22 13-15-13 (resized).png
Pioneer schematic (resized).jpg
0Spirit76-Work-16 (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider ajfclark.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

When You have an running Spirit of 76 / Pioneer: Please look at the O-Relay at the time the Bonus is stepped down when a ball is lost --- does YOUR pin shows "FIVE PULSES on the O-Relay" ? - or does the O-Relay not actuate while the Bonus is counted down - then pulling-in and stay pulling for "to kick-over the ball to the shooter alley ? Please write about.

On my Pioneer, O does not activate until bonus is zero. Once bonus is zero, the motor turns 120 degrees and the O relay pulses, firing the ball return kicker once.

eg. With the playfield up, I start a game and load up 1300 bonus.

I tap the outhole switch. Motor turns 120, bonus steps down 5 times.
I tap the outhole switch again. Motor turns 120, bonus steps down 5 times.
I tap the outhole switch again. Motor turns 120, bonus steps down 3 times.
I tap the outhole switch again. Motor turns 120, O pulses and the ball return kicker fires.

If I tap the outhole switch again, the last step repeats.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

On my Pioneer, O does not activate until bonus is zero. Once bonus is zero, the motor turns 120 degrees and the O relay pulses, firing the ball return kicker once.

I'll use the word energise for when the relay turns on/pulls in and de-energise for when it turns off/lets go.
I'll use the word fire for when a coil energises and then de-energises quickly.

With 1300 bonus, when the ball drains:

The motor turns 120, during which the Subtract "Bonus" Unit coil fires 5 times.
The motor turns 120, during which the Subtract "Bonus" Unit coil fires 5 times.
The motor turns 120, during which the Subtract "Bonus" Unit coil fires 3 times.
The motor turns 120, at the end of the turn, the O relay energises, which causes the Ball Return coil to fire, kicking the ball, and then the O relay de-energises.

Looking at the schematic, the O relay should NEVER energise until the bonus unit has reached the zero position:

Make break switch circledMake break switch circled

If I get a chance this afternoon, I'll fiddle with that switch and see if I can replicate your problem.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from Nick_C:

This is what I thought. I might be at a point where I have to unsolder each end of a wire run and use a jumper like to isolate some wires or even perhaps start inspecting the wires.

Ok, I had a chance to have a quick play around and see what I could come up with. I managed to get my machine to kick the ball back after only 5000 of the bonus has been scored.

eg. Game with 1300 bonus, ball drains, bonus counts down 5000, ball kicks out, leaving 8000 bonus still lit

All I needed to do was short the upper leaves on the make/break switch on the bonus unit, the white blue and white orange. Shown here open as the bonus unit is not in the zero position: 20170723_193455 (resized).jpg20170723_193455 (resized).jpg

The first diagnostic I'd do is checking that that switch really, really is open when then bonus unit isn't zero - I'd put a piece of card between the upper contacts or de-solder the white orange from the top tab.

This should make the machine count down all the bonus but no longer kick the ball out. If that's what happens, there's something wrong with how that switch is working that is isn't opening properly.

If the problem continues, there's a short between the white orange and white blue somewhere else.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

thanks for helping on "Nick_C and my" problem. The strange thing happening - O-Relay somewhat pulls-in --- but does this too early as well as does it pulsing five times (pull and let go and and and and) instead of pull-in and stay pulling - the strange thing happening is most likely a fault.

Ok, the O relay pulling in 5 times is definitely not right. As the Kick Out coil doesn't fire five times, I'd guess the make/break switch on the bonus unit is actually ok.

The motor sequence chart only has one stack that fires 5 times - 1A:
Pioneer Motor Sequence ChartPioneer Motor Sequence Chart

So I think something is going on with 1A, eg a short between 1A and something that is causing O to pulse 5 times.

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from Nick_C:

Before reading this thread for the evening, I decided to have another look at that make/break switch, I unsoldered all the wires, which I labeled on the schematic before I removed them. When I resoldered them there was a discrepancy between the schematic and what I originally had. Now it counts down exactly the way it should!!!

That's really good news.

Quoted from Nick_C:

ajfclark was able to reproduce it, it was the way the switches were soldered. I looked at those switches so many times, maybe the few days away from it allowed me to look at it with fresh eyes.

Oh excellent! I thought I hadn't quite replicated what you were seeing, but it maybe there was a bit of a language block/misunderstanding.

Quoted from Nick_C:

I can't thank everyone enough!! Thank you so much Rolf, i learnt alot from you and this problem. Thanks ajfclark and frb for assisting in the troubleshooting.

You are most welcome. It was an interesting exercise looking at the schematic and trying to picture what could make the machine behave the way you were seeing.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 3.50
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider ajfclark.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cfh-spirit-of-76-pioneer-bonus-count-down?tu=ajfclark and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.