(Topic ID: 115045)

Bally centaur multiball kicker


By thierryv

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 38 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Inkochnito
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

image.jpg
IMG_1638.JPG
IMG_1637.JPG
Centaur 002.jpg

#1 6 years ago

Hi,

I have a strange ball to PF kicker issue on my centaur one.
When I hit the four orbs targets in order I recieve a second ball by the ball to pf solenoid,so far so good.But afterwards the solenoid to PF kicks 4 more times (without shooting an other ball to the PF) .
I did already a cpu board swap but the problem seems to be situated on the PF ?
In switch and solenoid test menu everthing works perfect.
I don't now where to search

#2 6 years ago

Sounds like a switch issue. Have you looked at the switches under the pf ? Maybe one for the balls is sticking and it thinks it never sent the ball? Or maybe the shooter lane one not seeing the ball?

#3 6 years ago

Remove all balls, turn the game on, and go into switch test. See any stuck switches?

#4 6 years ago

When I go in switch test there are no stucked switches, the under pf shooter lane switch shows 33 ( normal )
I have two centaurs and they both have this malfunction, nevertheless on TNT video it works perfect ?
Very strange ...

#5 6 years ago

Do you have it pitched too high? I had this problem on my old Centaur and had to lower it back down so it would properly.

#6 6 years ago

There are two switches in the subway, one by the kicker arm and one halfway up. I think if the upper one doesn't register when the ball passes by you will see this behavior.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

There are two switches in the subway, one by the kicker arm and one halfway up. I think if the upper one doesn't register when the ball passes by you will see this behavior.

I've not seen a second switch in the subway.
There is only one switch half way up.

Do you mean the trough?
The trough does have two switches.

Also the shooter lane does not have a switch.

#8 6 years ago

Indeed there is only one switch in the subway "33 end of trough" and its working during switch test menu.
At this moment the game only play's two mulltiball
Here a short video showing the problem ...

#9 6 years ago

Yep, my mistake, just the one switch. But don't assume that because it works in switch test means it will work as the ball flies past it. The switch actuator may need some adjustment.

#10 6 years ago

Make sure it's working with a ball, not just your finger. It's hard to replicate EXACTLY where the ball will be with anything other than a ball.

#11 6 years ago

No progress
I suspect switch 33 end of trhough ( the switch halfway up in the subway ) so I tested during gameplay, once with switch 33 always open en once switch 33 always closed.
No difference at all its like the switch hasn't a purpose, the under playfield solenoid kicker gets pulled in 4 times instead of two ( while its launching only one ball to the PF )
I was first thinking of a bad switch 33 but I tested and its working ?

#12 6 years ago

Nobody ???
I have this issue on both my centaurs so it must be a common problem...

#13 6 years ago

Have you replaced the capacitor on the switch?

#14 6 years ago

I've just tested this problem on my machine.
I detached switch 33 and this is exactly the problem that occurs.
So this has to be a switch 33 related problem.

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

I've just tested this problem on my machine.
I detached switch 33 and this is exactly the problem that occurs.
So this has to be a switch 33 related problem.

Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

Have you replaced the capacitor on the switch?

There is originally no capacitor nor diode on this switch

#16 6 years ago

Well maybe someone with this game can check theirs and see if it should. I know the capacitors are ment to keep the switch closed a tad longer so the cpu can see the switch was activated.

#17 6 years ago

Yes diode, no cap. The diode is mounted separately on the playfield near the bottom end of the 1-4 target bank. Bally didn't put caps on rollover switches, but I don't think it would be a problem if you wanted to add one. I still think it's an adjustment issue, though.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Yes diode, no cap. The diode is mounted separately on the playfield near the bottom end of the 1-4 target bank. Bally didn't put caps on rollover switches, but I don't think it would be a problem if you wanted to add one. I still think it's an adjustment issue, though.

Oops indeed there is a diode ( tested ok ) otherwise it couldn't be detected in the row/column I guess
I have changed the switch ( 33 ), but no improvement

#19 6 years ago

Are all balls the same size?

#20 6 years ago

Hmm yes they are, but mine are getting bigger due to this weird malfunction

#21 6 years ago

FYI, here is a photo of my shooter switch. It provides good closure and also allows an errant ball to roll back down.Centaur 002.jpg

#22 6 years ago

Ok, so it looks like a micro switch. Does it click when activated? Might be as simple as needing a new one.

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

FYI, here is a photo of my shooter switch. It provides good closure and also allows an errant ball to roll back down.

Centaur 002.jpg 293 KB

Is this wiring original ? on both my centaurs there are only two wires connected to the switch (not four )
IMG_1638.JPG
IMG_1637.JPG

Thanks for your cooperation

#24 6 years ago

If I take a look closer now on the pictures, they are connected the same way but in my case with two screws near the subway

#25 6 years ago
Quoted from thierryv:

Is this wiring original ? on both my centaurs there are only two wires connected to the switch (not four )

Yours looks like mine

#26 6 years ago

The purpose of my photo was to show you how the wire form/trip wire should be bent. The way yours is bent will cause other issues. If a ball goes past the switch, but does not go up onto the playfield, it will roll back down and get stuck behind the wire form and the CPU won't know it rolled back down. I know this roll back issue is unrelated to the problem you are having. But, as has been mentioned, it sounds like the CPU is not seeing the ball pass by the switch and therefore, tries multiple times to re-kick the ball to clear it from the subway.

My playfield, while it sits in a Centaur 1, was out of a Centaur 2 so that would explain the difference in wire numbers and why my diode is mounted directly to the switch instead of on some solder eyelets on the playfield. At least the wire colors are the same.

Have you checked to see how "long" the micro switch can click closed if you slide a ball up the subway rail by hand? Your switch might be clicking closed for too short a time for the CPU to see it (one of the reasons for disc caps on things like Thumper Bumper and spot target switches). I wonder if adding a 0.05 (or 0.047) ufd disc cap (any voltage is fine) across the switch will help?

Have you tried to close the switch by hand immediately after the game energizes the shooter coil to kick the ball to the playfield? If so, does it only kick once if you do? I know you have said the switch responds as it should in switch test. So we know the switch is wired correctly, and, for the most part, works when closed. It just might be a timing issue.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

The purpose of my photo was to show you how the wire form/trip wire should be bent. The way yours is bent will cause other issues. If a ball goes past the switch, but does not go up onto the playfield, it will roll back down and get stuck behind the wire form and the CPU won't know it rolled back down. I know this roll back issue is unrelated to the problem you are having. But, as has been mentioned, it sounds like the CPU is not seeing the ball pass by the switch and therefore, tries multiple times to re-kick the ball to clear it from the subway.
My playfield, while it sits in a Centaur 1, was out of a Centaur 2 so that would explain the difference in wire numbers and why my diode is mounted directly to the switch instead of on some solder eyelets on the playfield. At least the wire colors are the same.
Have you checked to see how "long" the micro switch can click closed if you slide a ball up the subway rail by hand? Your switch might be clicking closed for too short a time for the CPU to see it (one of the reasons for disc caps on things like Thumper Bumper and spot target switches). I wonder if adding a 0.05 (or 0.047) ufd disc cap (any voltage is fine) across the switch will help?
Have you tried to close the switch by hand immediately after the game energizes the shooter coil to kick the ball to the playfield? If so, does it only kick once if you do? I know you have said the switch responds as it should in switch test. So we know the switch is wired correctly, and, for the most part, works when closed. It just might be a timing issue.

Indeed I was thinking in the same way that switch closing time could be to short.
So like you said I have closed switch by hand while the coil is energizing ,unfortunately no difference.
Its like the game doesn,t recognizes the switch at all altough the switch and his diode tested fine

#28 6 years ago

What about all of the trough switches? Could one of them be acting up?

#29 6 years ago

All ball trough switches tested fine, infact they all do in switch test menu with the appropriated number

#30 6 years ago

In the picture that cactusjack provided it looks like the wire that activates the switch (from ball) is at a say...2 to 3 o'clock position. (attached to side of switch) In your picture it looks more like a 1 o'clock position. Could it be that as the ball rolls over that, its not actually pushing it down far enough internally? Also like cactusjack is saying...if a ball were to not clear it might roll back and hang up on the broken switch wire.

#31 6 years ago

The actuator definitely needs to be bent to allow a rollback and I agree it looks like there isn't enough "travel" in the actuator to close the switch when the ball rolls over it. But, he said he tried closing it by hand and that didn't work.

#32 6 years ago

Yep. Agree. Heres mine. It works fine. image.jpg

#33 6 years ago

okay this may be the answer you are looking for, what type of balls you using a common problem with games with magnets and the premium chrome balls which magnetize, I had this issue in my Centaur/ SM /Metprem (mostly in the coffin lock) and Johnny mnemonic all metal troughs, and the balls stick to the sides not moving / could be as easy as putting in new standard balls or even the crappy stock stern balls I usually take out of the new sterns . hope this helps and you make a good move Human

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from Jjsmooth:

Yep. Agree. Heres mine. It works fine.
image.jpg 499 KB

Even in your pic, it looks like it has a bend really close to the switch. And in your case it looks like it would close the switch sooner as the ball rolls over it. But in his, it's coming away from the switch in a straight line. So as ball rolls over, it only closes the switch part way and it might not be enough for the cpu to see it.

#35 6 years ago

Yes !!! Altough I tested de diode it still was the culprit.
Hours of research work only for this cheap non working piece.
Thanks to all for helping troubleshooting and many pinball greatings from belgium

#36 6 years ago

Glad you found the problem....game on!

#37 6 years ago

Sweet! Glad you got it fixed. Still need to bend or replace the wire in case of a ball rolling back though.

#38 6 years ago

Just got a message from Thierryv that the problem returned.
I told him to check the trough switches 1 and 17 (ball 4 and ball 1).
These are the only ones in the same row which would be closed when the problem occurs.
These numbers are lower than 33 and that is why 33 would not be "seen" by the cpu.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 8.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside