You'll get better in time. When they designed the game, they did something called 'percentaging' the game - where they played many games with different playfield options and timed how long it took to play. If the play time was considered too low for average players, they did things like move the posts or add a center post, etc.

Since they didn't add the center post at the factory, the game is correctly percentaged without it, so your games should be about a 2-3 minute experience. That's what they were aiming for back then. Any kind of intrusive change like adding a post you should think long and hard about.... yes, it's frustrating to not have a long ball, but I think it's REALLY frustrating on a simple game of this era, with relatively limited objectives, to have a crazy long ball by making it too easy. You will get bored of the game a lot quicker if there's no challenge. Loosen the tilt first and start nudging a bit more, and then as you get better, tighten it up. (Nothing makes you a better player than having a tight tilt and knowing how to deal with it)

If you find that the ball is draining a lot on certain shots, remember the game is designed to drain your ball (and keep earning money for the operator). If you need to make a certain shot, learn how to do it without causing a drain vector.... shoot from the opposite flipper, shoot obliquely, shoot on a bank, don't shoot for something at all, etc.

I know that death lane well, I usually try to nudge off the rubber to move that ball over when it comes down there, especially after hitting the 2X on the plunge.

Scores seem about right to me. play with your pitch if want to try something different. here is a clip I did on stream of mine set with the leg levelers all the way in as Gottlieb usually recommended at the time.

Totally agree about changing the playing experience. I like to keep the system 1s as original as possible, as they are some of my favorites. I will probably lean against adding a post. I had been thinking about it for a long time and the fact I have not done it yet kinda means I don't want to do it. But I wanted to get some feedback from other system 1 players.

Thanks for the video. Looks like an anti gravity ball hahaha. I will maybe mess with changing the rear legs. I have been nudging like a madman when the ball is in the "death lane" and that has been helping a great deal.

I had a Hulk 18 months ago for about a month I was fixing for someone. It didn't take me long to clock it.

Well an average score like that means you're commonly getting a credit at the typical score threshold awards. Nothing wrong with that average.

I don't remember the game I worked on having this annoyance. The owner did have silicon rubbers on it if that makes any difference.

slochar answered the question beautifully, particularly about limited objectives in the game and extending ball time beyond those objectives. Adding a centre post won't make you a better player.

I have created a Gottlieb System1/80 MPU Test Bench suite. This is a series of components that enable you to test the functionality of the MPU in a Gottlieb System 1, 80, 80A or 80B. There are four components 1. Power Supply, 2. Switch Matrix Emulator, 3. Output Emulator and 4. Display Emulator. The MPU can be removed from the machine and all 4 components can simulate a running machine. Or the MPU can be left in the machine and connected to the original power supply, but the 2. Switch Matrix Emulator, 3. Output Emulator and 4. Display Emulator components can be attached to the MPU to test it functionality and confirm if the problem is with the MPU or further down the line in the driver board, wiring harness, connectors, displays, controlled lights.

Here is a video of the components in use.

Each component includes the board connectors to both System 1 and System 80, ribbon cables to connect to the components, and in some cases a power cable to provide 5V to a component.

The Switch Matrix, Output and Display Emulator components have been tested with original Gottlieb MPU's, Flipp PI-1/X4 All-in-One and NiWumpf Mark II boards, but theoretically should work with any System1, 80, 80A, or 80B MPU.

1. Power Supply - $160 USD
2. Switch Matrix Emulator - $240 USD
3. Output Emulator - $200 USD
4. Display Emulator - $180 USD
All Four components - $700 USD (That is a $60 savings)
... plus shipping

PM if interested or you have additional questions.

General Conditions:
1. Do not plug in and unplug components while the power is on. Turn the power off, then adjust connections as necessary.
2. Items are sold as is. Using the components not for their intended purpose may destroy them.
3. The Power Supply only provides +5V and -12V to power the MPU and the other components of the test bench. It will not power the original displays, GI lights, 24V DC or AC components or the controlled lights and solenoids connected through the driver board. Don't bother trying to replace the transformers and power supply board with this component. It won't work!

Good stuff. Well done RD

Anyone have a rubber ring map for a torch that shows which rings go where? I can’t figure out where the largest ring goes in the kit I bought.
Thx.

The H (5 inch ring) should go on the right side by the 5 drop targets.

IMG_1502[1] (resized).JPG

Where did you buy the kit? All the ones I see come with a playfield diagram.

System 80b Hot Shots. The Accelerator motor is still giving me the devil on this thing. The motor worked fine for months with no resets and at Allentown on Thursday it worked great through Friday morning. Then the machine started resetting and the accelerator motor would work intermittently. When the motor finally quit for good, I found that it was extremely hot to the touch as well as the small transformer that drives the motor.
So, I'm wondering, did the motor just give up and die on its own, or did having too many machines plugged into not enough voltage at the show aid its failure?
I have another used motor and because the motor is a 115vac motor, can I test it and the old one buy using some jumpers directly to an extension cord from the motor connector and flick on the wall switch temporarily? Or is that a Bad Idea?
I'm also wondering if too many machines chasing not enough voltage at the show could have caused the resets. The A24 Reset board was not plugged in.

Thanks for your help,

Alan

Having "too many machines plugged in" - don't even know what this means... either the circuit is overloaded or it isn't. If it's overloaded, then you're drawing too much current and tripping a breaker. With properly wired circuits, you are not going to pull your wall voltage down.

It might be a bad idea if you shock yourself or accidentally short the two wires together. However, if it's a 115 VAC motor, then you can plug it into a standard 110/120 VAC wall outlet using an extension cord, etc. The motor does not care where it gets its voltage from as long as it's the rated voltage.

Why would you think the voltage was low? Again, if you plug too many machines into a circuit, you're going to draw more current than the wiring is rated for and trip out a breaker. Unless the circuits used at the show were using undersized wires and oversized breakers... in that case, the venue would have seen other kinds of issues like brownouts.

It sounds like you may have a bad motor. Also verify wiring, connections, and voltage to the motor.

Hi Sparky, thanks for the reply. What I don't know about electricity would fill an ocean. I just heard from some other guys at the show talking about too many machines on each socket bank. Maybe it's an EM thing, I don't know. I'm going to try the extension cord method and I will let you know what happened.

Unless somebody was measuring the actual voltage with a meter, I would not pay any attention to that.

Keep in mind that if true, there was a scenario where voltage was being pulled down because of an overload without breakers tripping, there would be brownouts, hot wires/outlets, and other bad things happening.

Wattage is wattage.

I’m looking for a Punk if anyone wants to see what they can get for it!

Make sure the motor is secured when you turn it on. The torque will make the whole motor spin and could twist the power wires together and short them out or cause other chaos.

Hey all, just bought a 1978 Dragon. Plays great after puttin some work into it. Grounded, replaced caps, fixed battery damage, installed supercapacitor, etc. I also erased all audit memory. Everything works, except the credits. When I put 4 credits in, then hit start, it erases the remaining 3 credits. If I put more credits in AFTER starting a single player game, I can add additional players. What the heck is going on?

I am looking for a Joker Poker SS partially populated playfield or donor machine I can use for parts. Mostly I am just interested in the 10 position drop target, lower cabinet wiring harness and upper cabinet wiring harness.

I am working on a project and I need the solenoid assignments for a few more System 80A and 80B machines. The detail I need is typically found in the game manual under Step 17 of the diagnostics.
- STRIKER
- KRULL
- GOIN' NUTS
- READY... AIM... FIRE!
- JACKS TO OPEN
- EL DORADO CITY OF GOLD
- HOLLYWOOD HEAT
- VICTORY
- TX SECTOR
- EXCALIBUR
- BONE BUSTERS INC.

This is an example from Royal Flush Deluxe of the information I am looking for. Please PM me.
681b (resized).jpg

Thanks in advance for any assistance the group can provide!

So you need solenoid assignments for those games? I can get ya a couple tomorrow.

@rdbowers, here's TX-Sector:

Screenshot 2024-05-12 at 9.22.00?PM (resized).png

It may be worth noting that TX-Sector also uses a relay to multiplex some solenoids (similar to the A/C relay in System 11 games). Here's what they control, since it's not super obvious from page 17.

Screenshot 2024-05-12 at 9.35.26?PM (resized).png

Thanks for the information!

I have a partial Bone Busters manual that is only missing some schematics. I cannot find the Solenoid assignments however.

Gottlieb_Hollywood-Heat_Solenoids.png
Gottlieb_Victory_Solenoids.png

Here are some more images for you...

Bone_Busters_solenoids_1.jpg

Bone_Busters_solenoids_2.jpg

El_Dorado_solenoids.jpg

Excalibur_solenoids_1.jpg

Excalibur_solenoids_2.jpg

Going_Nuts_solenoids.jpg

Jacks_to_Open_solenoids.jpg

Krull_solenoids.jpg

Ready_Aim_Fire_solenoids.jpg

Striker_solenoids.jpg

That completes the list of the machines I was missing. Thank you!!!

You only need to ask.
I've got all the manuals....

Anyone make a playfield protector for the Incredible Hulk? Emailed Playfield Protectors and they don't. And they have no plans to make one.

You can buy blank ones from them or from elsewhere and do your own, but it's pretty difficult unless you have access to a big CNC machine and have a playfield scan. I'm always very disappointed when PP doesn't have a game I want one on. I'm a big fan of them.

Hey y'all, I picked up a Tag-Team recently that's missing the reset board and I intend to use the game on location.

Maybe a dumb question, but will adding a reset generator to the control board as described in [https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Using_a_Reset_Generator_for_the_CPU_Reset_Section] effectively replace the need for the reset board?
I'd rather go this route than buy a new reset board, and I think I prefer the reset circuit to do the protection in addition to the proper fuses.

I do see that the circuit will connect to pin 40 of U1 after Z4, so I'd assume this will replace the reset board, but wanted to make sure.

Thanks!

No the reset generator replaces the discrete components that generate the power up reset.

The reset board monitors processor activity and resets it if it freezes up.

Two different purposes. You can probably run without the reset board as long as you have everything fused properly.

Glad I asked, thank you!

That said, I'm a fan of redundancy in cases like this, so I'll just try to source or build a reset board I guess.

Speaking of the reset board, does anyone make a replacement for it? I feel like most people just pull them out of their games in a home environment, but I do sorta like the idea of having them installed, but I don’t like the idea of having them fail and cause issues due to to age.

And with that, is there a better way to implement this reset circuit?

I think I have the parts needed to copy the original, but it seems like there is likely another, possibly simpler way to achieve the same result.

You mean the power on reset? Can't get much simpler than the reset generator ic.

The address monitor there might be but iirc it's really simple anyway just a timer that gets reset by address activity and if it times out it triggers a reset.

Yeah, I was thinking about the address reset, I was just thinking there might be a better way than gottlieb's version.

Big fan too, especially for the system 1s. My Pinball Pool plays so much better with the protector.