If you do not want to solder dozen of resistors to your LEDs to get rid of LED flickering
you may want to try my 'centralized' DIY anti flicker solution
https://lisy.dev/bally-led-anti-flicker-solution.html
have fun
anti flicker module (resized).pngOrdered 
I assume this is just for the bally -35 board since others use different methods to trigger the zero cross.
Quoted from bontango:If you do not want to solder dozen of resistors to your LEDs to get rid of LED flickering
you may want to try my 'centralized' DIY anti flicker solution
How much delay are you adding? Note the zero crossing interrupt is taken on the falling edge of the zero crossing input signal, not the rising edge. So the LEDs are being switched on closer to the 4 volts mark after internal service routine delays.
Quoted from Quench:How much delay are you adding? Note the zero crossing interrupt is taken on the falling edge of the zero crossing input signal, not the rising edge. So the LEDs are being switched on closer to the 4 volts mark after internal service routine delays.
We did some tests and found out that it works best with a 1ms delay.
The Zero Cross signal is scanned and put to a BIG shift register, so both the falling and rising edge is delayed by 1ms
same on BallyFA when 'LED option' is activated
Here is the VHDL code with a 500 bit wide shift register from BallyFA
architecture Behavioral of signal_delay is
constant DELAY : positive := 500; -- fix 1mS Delay
signal delay_line : std_logic_vector(DELAY-1 downto 0);
begin
process(clk_in)
begin
if rising_edge(clk_in) then
delay_line <= delay_line(DELAY-2 downto 0) & sig_in;
end if;
end process;
sig_out <= delay_line(DELAY-1);
Quoted from slochar:I assume this is just for the bally -35 board since others use different methods to trigger the zero cross
It should work for Bally -17, -35, -133, 6802; but we are working on a variant for Stern-100/200 and one for Alltek Ultimate.
Also there will be a Bally variant which use 4069 chip instead of 4049 ...
So stay tuned ...
new software version v0.2 for my Bally LED anti flicker solution, v0.1 did not work on some systems
https://lisy.dev/bally-led-anti-flicker-solution.html
pls. let me know in case of problems
Received boards and parts. Problem one is getting the pickit 3 working though, the program prior to X doesn't support the pic used, and the X program doesn't support the pickit3 I got (which is likely a bootleg clone). Seems to be a common issue with the pickit3.... might just get whatever the latest pickit thing is instead to solve that one, although I suspect that it's much more expensive.
Quoted from slochar:and the X program doesn't support the pickit3 I got (which is likely a bootleg clone). Seems to be a common issue with the pickit3.... might just get whatever the latest pickit thing is instead to solve that one, although I suspect that it's much more expensive.
mmh, MPLAB X IPE v6.00 works with my pickit3 clone ordered a few years ago
I will receive this week a 'fresh ordered' pickit3.5 clone, will report if it works
EDIT: btw, what i the problem with your PICKIT3 & X ?
Quoted from bontango:what i the problem with your PICKIT3 & X ?
X doesn't recognize it.
Thanks to my friend Holger ( the guy who did in fact most of the anti-flicker programming) now also a program version for PIC12F683 is available
https://lisy.dev/bally-led-anti-flicker-solution.html
This PIC is supported by the old proprammer tool so should be working with the PICKIT3 clones
hope that helps
Latest Info:jut received my PICKIT3.5 clone and it worked together with IPE X v6.00 (standalone)
By powering the PIC via the tool with 5V I got the usual error message that Voltage is too low ( 4,65V)
and after reducing the power to 4,5V it worked ...
Looks like there are different clones out there. I got mine from 'TZT-Five Star Store'
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003558613510.html
I guess the issue might be that I ordered the pickit 3 (not .5) only? I'll try the .5 as I'd rather have a supported programmer vs. just buying more pics.
IPE X was crazy with the amount of crap it installed... I need none of that. It also makes me glad I'm not a professional programmer as that environment looked crazy complicated vs. what I'm used to (notepad++ with command line assemblers....)
Quoted from bontango:Latest Info:jut received my PICKIT3.5 clone and it worked together with IPE X v6.00 (standalone)
By powering the PIC via the tool with 5V I got the usual error message that Voltage is too low ( 4,65V)
and after reducing the power to 4,5V it worked ...
Looks like there are different clones out there. I got mine from 'TZT-Five Star Store'
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003558613510.html
Great work! this is awesome.
ALso thank you for the aliexpress link.
Whoa!
Love it!
Well done!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
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https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
Quoted from slochar:I'd rather have a supported programmer vs. just buying more pics.
FYI, your TL866 programmer supports the PIC12F683 so that might be an option.
I don't mind acquiring new programming toys.... I did check the original pic in the tl866 but wasn't there.
Quoted from northvibe:Will this work with the weebly mpu?
https://nvram.weebly.com/mpu.html
My zero cross stuff matching the original bally design pin for pin, but I am pretty sure I've moved a couple general inverter gates away from the slow 4049 to a HC04 that replaced the other 4049 used which might be an issue.
By shifting the interrupt away from the zero crossing, doesn't this also work against a couple of designed benefits?
Screen Shot 2023-07-27 at 10.19.00 AM (resized).png
So solenoid driver transistors would experience a higher voltage spikes?
(edit: I'm not trying to suggest that this is an actual problem -- I'm just curious)
Quoted from DickHamill:By shifting the interrupt away from the zero crossing, doesn't this also work against a couple of designed benefits?
[quoted image]
So solenoid driver transistors would experience a higher voltage spikes?
(edit: I'm not trying to suggest that this is an actual problem -- I'm just curious)
Since the LED's use so much less current I don't think this would be a concern.
Quoted from DickHamill:So solenoid driver transistors would experience a higher voltage spikes?
Yes, the solenoid driver transistors will switch at higher currents levels.
I had the same thought early on..
The other game manufacturers don't respect switching on coils at zero crossing so I don't think it'll be an actual problem unless users report otherwise.
The main reason the driver transistors fail in the Bally/Stern systems is because of issues with the actual coil diodes or the CA3081 pre-driver transistor arrays.
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Sana'a
Hanover, VA