Got a bunch of games in on venom at york on the pro and premium. Didn't care for the game. Didn't care for the fast locks. Didn't care for the sound design. Never got to look up at the screen to see the art. Maybe its a great game and I just don't have time on it. However, most of the people I talked to at the show didn't care for it, and the ones bought by the distributors went home with the distros and those brought by resellers (at $6700) didn't sell either. I think Stern has a swing and a miss on their hands.

Then this is a fantastic opportunity for you. Getcha one! Who cares what anyone thinks so long as you love it. I'm seeing LEs go mid 11s NIB. If its a dream game for you pick one up at a discount and love it!

I love the game. Its just fun with great artwork and I bought the pro.

You stated opinions and backed them up with rationales and examples in a mature, respectful tone. I think this is a Pinside first. Bravo.

Maybe a Brianna Wu first even

It’s funny, I’ve been hearing for years the industry needs to do more to bring in new and younger players and I feel stern is one of, if not the only manufacturer looking for solutions here. Insider connected brought us an achievement system, akin to video games. Connected leaderboards for locations have brought in a competitive element to bring in new players. I applaud both Brian and Dwight for taking another step forward and bringing progression to pinball.

Outside of pricing (which is a different discussion), I think stern is moving in the right direction and taking the risks required to find what resonates with the demographic needed for this hobby to survive long term.

Man you couldn't be more wrong.

Just got my LE delivered today, this is great news. I was worried !

Yeah, to be honest when I got my Godzilla and first saw IC I really thought I would dislike it and just disconnect the WiFi module… was totally wrong. Even a grumpy old bastard like me thought it was amusing.

In the first couple weeks, my family has had more fun on our LE than any machine we’ve brought home since Godzilla. And it’s right there with it so far. Yet to be seen if it will have the same legs. Funny thing is, they were both themes I don’t really care about.

Art is fantastic, love the layout/changing. Sound package is great. Rules are really enjoyable and different. I think it’s a home run. I would bet it follows the stranger things trajectory.

Does every game now need a public defense thread?

“Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one and they usually stink”

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I have an LE, and to be totally honest, my first reaction after about 20 games was “oh no, this pin sucks”. That said, it’s starting to grow on me. The progression is addicting and I find myself wanting to steal a few minutes during the day to get a game in. It’s been my only reverse honeymoon phase where I hate it at first and then started to really enjoy it.

Your description does sound really neat but I think a huge problem comes with the line "it's still early in the code".

Why in the world is Stern releasing games with incomplete code? They have more demand than they can possibly meet, why not slow down a bit and release their games in a more fleshed out state? It reminds me too much of the video game industry and I'm at the point where I almost exclusively buy games on sale because they are nearly always shit at release.

Part of the fun to me with pinball is to watch the ball do stuff like going up and around ramps and wire form etc. Watching it bounce around the pop bumpers with fast lock system and non visable bumpers and no real ramps to watch your ball do something this game is just not super fun for me and i've put in 60 games+ on the pro. It's fun to shoot to a point and if you want fast gameplay this is it but for me there is no lasting appeal for this game because of the layout.

I played a couple games and thoughtthe design was cool (pro). Going in it seemed a little weird with yet another u-turn on the right but done much better than Mando.
I had a lot of fun, started to understand the grid lights which I thought were cool (but I like classic Sterns).
Staged ramps are awesome.

Non design
What is it aboot? No fuckign idea....apprently this comic strip is aboot a bunch of people that are all venom fighting more venoms? Then you can change your current Venom to a diff'rent Venom... ? Not a clue, but fun.

Lol, I confess I know almost nothing about Venom but I'm pretty sure it's not a single guy, it's an alien suit that attaches to various people throughout the stories. So that would explain why there are so many venoms, with Eddie Brock being the original.

I played a little at York. I like it. Good flow/seems like potential to be good adrenaline game. Admittedly, I Didn’t play enough to get a real good feel of the rules.

Seems that if a game has whirlly/twirlly ramps then the initial public response is positive; game doesn’t have flashy ramps then ‘game sucks’. I’m not sure a good portion of the pinball mob really thinks that much deeper than that. (At risk of downvotes, I don’t mean you guys. You’re all awesome!)

Got a couple of games in at York. Enough for me to buy a Premium. I really liked it.

I think it will become a competition circuit sweetheart. It is brutally fast and the changing hosts and playfields will open up a mastery of point options.

Do the roguelike elements require insider connected? If not how does that work with a machine in a commercial setting?

But not all the time? Tease.

Played both premium and pro at southern fried then last night a premium at cafe one league. Sound effects are grating and harsh reminds me of aiq or Deadpool which I don’t care for. The game is just a fan layout with a Bart Simpson skateboard mech. Fast locks are ok but the game shoots like many other sterns. Don’t really care for theme and the progress saving doesn’t speak to me. It’s not a crap game like turtles but won’t be a grail game like Gz. Thought it was easy to trap and backhand shots. Game isn’t that hard to score on prob won’t be a good tournament machine. Other than that I give it a solid B for stern on this release won’t be looking for one anytime soon especially with the crap sound effects.

Based upon the response here doesn’t seem the game is underrated

I mean, we all know everything ever made is both criminally underrated and stupidly overrated at the same time.

But this one seems rated just right.

I really like the game design, especially on location. I think the way the software is designed makes it incredibly addictive. I stopped out to play a Pro a few weeks ago and stuck around playing for probably an hour later than I planned to just because I kept building progress in the game. I ended up defeating Grendel and faced off against Knull a couple times, but couldn't defeat him.

Then the same location got an LE so I had to check it out and it was great because it resumed my progress from my earlier time on the Pro. I worked on defeating the other mini bosses and kept facing off against Knull, but lost like 7 times in a row (at stage 4) but I couldn't leave because I had to beat him which I Finally I did (around 75XP)and unlocked Hulk. My speed-run time was about 3 hours which isn't great but now I really want to go back and try to defeat him again and unlock the other characters and improve upon my time and use the additional characters on my quest. The game seems to have a lot of replay factor since on future runs I can concentrate more on score, and speed-runs and other challenges that come up along the way. The game feels like those video games that I played as a kid where you just keep going back to try and beat and master the game. It's really cool to see this cross over into pinball. I'm not sure if I'd eventually get bored of it at home (like a video game) but I'm absolutely loving the game on location and I think it will be a hit with operators.

Also, I am usually more of a fan of Pro games but on this one the LE blows the Pro away. I love the flow that the 180 ramp shot adds and the way the playfield shots transform throughout the game. The Doppleganger is also much better as a toy than as a single shot.

Ok and this is where we need to step back and say- wait a min what is going on here? Do we really need the same "Hook" as games like WoW or diablo need to get players to continue playing? Do we want to turn pinball into Lineage ||? Are PC bangs going to need to cram a venom in the back now?

I don't think we need this on every game but in this case I'm glad they took a risk and innovated by taking a step away from traditional pinball rules. I guess if you want to get rid of the "continue" aspect of the rules you can set it to tournament rules and have a super challenging game for home.

Honeymoon still but, I think the game is a blast. I usally like all of them at first but, so far I can't find anything I hate. Its more intense than any other game Ive played

Diff'rent rules for diff'rent games make them fun in their own way.

Super underrated? The damned thing just came out! It hasn't even been rated yet enough times to show up in the list. How can a game already be underrated before it's even rated?

Got my premium today. So far I love it. Its a fast game, but smooth and flowy. Rules are refreshingly different.

I'm waiting for my LE to arrive, but I have played a premium and I loved the flow and the non-stop intensity of it. Even though the layout isn't new, it still feels like something fresh from Stern and that's why I'm sticking with mine. Few friends asked if I was going to switch to Stranger Things instead (I do love the theme) but based on initial impression and short term plays - I really enjoyed Venom and found STh very underwhelming. Long term, maybe that's another story but I can't wait to get stuck into this one I love what I've seen/played of it so far, and I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the progression.

I do think you need to give Bond another chance though, because that has become an absolutely outstanding game.

ive not played it and you are all wrong.

wait though! EDIT_____some mentioned about bringing in younger players, didn't JJP just do that with Elton???

I played a Pro and enjoyed it! Fast and fun! I would buy LE day one at 10k. Not $12,999. Waiting for LE pricing to drop which it will! It’s a bomb due to high pricing.

I got a premium despite the theme and LOVE IT.

Where is it rated?! Did I miss that? How can it be underrated? I read this exact comment in the game trailer on youtube from like months ago as well. Just word of mouth estimations? Or do you mean why is it not selling? That's a whole different animal!

The game isn’t selling well. Ask my distributor

It is the most intense playfield layout I have ever played and the software is great right out of the box. I had to let Bond sit for six months before the software was decent enough to play. A lot of people wrote off this game because of the theme (including me). Marvel theme burnout. On the other hand, once you play this game and feel the rush there is no denying it is a great shooting game with great rules and really great artwork.

I know zero about the Venom theme having never read a single page out of any comic book in my entire life, and I have never seen the movies either. So to me Venom is basically an original theme that is deeper and richer than any pinball designer could ever invent.

I was only casually interested until I flipped one. Once I played the game, I immediately switched my deposit from STh to Venom. Theme is likely an initial turnoff, but the game shoots really well and the gameplay is super interesting. The progression and RPG mechanics are really exciting for pinball, and I think once people engage with that a bit, it will be a hit.

Bond started off the same way and look what's happened there.

That said, you'll never please everyone. Games not selling well could also simply be a weird lull in the economy, oversaturation of the market, pricing, etc. There's unfortunately not enough information and far too many variables to establish the actual cause of poor game sales right now. Pinside is quick to say it's a bad a game or a bad theme or a bad layout or blah blah blah...But truth is, we're the enthusiasts in the hobby, so we're always going to look at how something game related is the problem. It's very likely more than that.

I think you answered your own question -

That’s not a comparison you want to make, Bond debuted at Expo last year with .60 code. One year later it’s at what, .97? *One year later*

A "Hey guys, I like this game. I get you might not like it, but I like it and here's why" post
isn't a "public defense thread".

It's a conversation starter. It's reasonable. It's open. It's what Pinside needs more of.

You know what Pinside could use a little less of?
Finger pointing, snark, and flying spittle.

So how about we all just "talk about stuff" without constantly telling each other how wrong they are?