(Topic ID: 130645)

[TECH] - Flipper Question

By Jean-Luc-Picard

8 years ago


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  • 23 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Dmod
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#1 8 years ago

My ST:TNG flipper has an issue. I first noticed the right flipper was not as strong as the left. For example I put my finger down "rather firm" and fire the flipper. It will just hit my finger and stop. Via settings, the "HOLD" wont lift the flipper. It wont lift the flipper for TOP RIGHT or BOTTOM RIGHT. At first I just figured, ok bad coil. But if TOP RIGHT and BOTTOM RIGHT are not able to "Hold" via test then something is wrong. Or will the right top flipper fail if the bottom right flipper is failing?

My Flipptronics board is a RottenDog. Long story short on a pinch a year ago I had to swap my ST:TNG flip-board with a brand new rottendog to get another machine to run.

However, in game. I can hold TOP/BOTTOM RIGHT flippers just fine. However, as I mentioned above the flipper has a hard time pushing weight. Like fast incoming ball for example. Not sure if I explained that well. Please let me know if I need to explain my situation better.

#2 8 years ago

Also, colorDMD is installed. Could I be having a 12v power supply issue? colorDMD drawing too much juice and not enough for the flippers?

EDIT: It is not the colorDMD or my Shaker. I disconnected both and still weak RIGHT BOTTM flipper. As well TOP RIGHT & BOTTOM RIGHT fail to HOLD via TEST.

#3 8 years ago

There have been some issues with the color DMD.

Your description of problem and disconnecting the DMD, leads me to think the issue is the flipper button opto board. Easy to swap left and right and see if problem moves.

I'm not a fan of flipper test in diagnostics. It's usually funky at best.

LTG : )™

#4 8 years ago

-Also notice, my left canon motor is slower then my right. However in test they are the same speed? But that may be a mode, since it has more targets to hit on right vs left.

Sounds good, I will swap the flipper-opto boards tomorrow to test. Bit late for me to do that tonight. But why would the opto board have anything to do with the "HOLD" for TOP RIGHT and BOTTOM RIGHT? via test since it is not using the opto's?

#5 8 years ago

ok, who am I kidding. Like I would be able to go to bed without swapping the boards. I just swapped them. No change.

TOP RIGHT
- Top Right flipper in game is perfect and holds fine.
- Top Right Flipper in test "HOLD" doesn't move.

BOTTOM RIGHT
- Bottom Right Flipper in game, not much power. The more I flip the weaker it gets. But I can hold just not that strong.
- Bottom Right Flipper Power test, same strength as in game.
- Bottom Right Flipper in test "HOLD" Doesn't move.

LEFT
- Left flipper in game, perfect and holds fine.
- Left flipper in test "HOLD" Flipper moves up and holds.

Since the top right flipper is totally fine in game. Even tho the test is weird, can it really just be a bad coil on bottom right?

#6 8 years ago

Perhaps check the pins, connectors and solder for the hold windings on the Fliptronic board? Maybe they are damaged.

#7 8 years ago

Maybe check voltage at coil and compare to left (good side) if no noticeable difference, maybe change out flipper coil as it could be slightly swollen or bad diodes, winding could be failing causing it to drag down the voltage to that side

#8 8 years ago

The Fliptronics Board I&II is from RottenDog. Little over a year old. I originally had issues with another machine, where ST:TNG's Flip-board worked in that but the RottenDog would not, it would blow a fuse. But it worked in ST:TNG. Granted, It prob gave us the weak flipper.

I do not notice any wingdings with damage. I will pull the board and check the solder joints in the back. As well swap another board from another machine and see what happens.

I am not sure, but it looks like the Rotten Dog board has been updated since I bought this one. Since it would blow fuses in another machine, I wonder if my culprit is a defective board.

#9 8 years ago

This morning I checked the machine and I have Left & Bottom Right EOS errors. When I get home I have a list of things to check. Will post what I discover.

#10 8 years ago

Ok... This has escalated to a bigger problem.

I went into switch edges. None of the flippers register if I manually move them.

-So I re-flowed all the orange cables on the EOS switches.
- Checked all the fuses on my Fliptronics board. "all ok"
- Re-seated connectors.

+ Turn machine on, colorDMD is all garble and I blow F112 which is Solenoid Secondary.

Any ideas?

#11 8 years ago

Update: Broken wire on J3 connector. Fixed, no longer blowing F112 and all 3 flippers are detected in edge test.
J3.jpgJ3.jpg

However: Bottom right flipper is still weak. TOP and BOTTOM RIGHT flippers still will not "HOLD" in test.

In Game, if I hold right flipper. Once the bottom right flipper is all the way up. It is very strong. Where it is weak is before it is 100% erect.

#12 8 years ago

Ordered new solenoids with diodes. Doubt it will fix anything, but at least I can narrow it down lol.

#13 8 years ago

You can test a solenoid with your meter. It's never a mystery if it's good or not.

And with flippers, you almost always have the identical coil to test one against another.

#14 8 years ago

I have 130Ω for left and 138Ω for bottom & top right. So, the coils should be fine. I borrowed another Fliptronics board to test, I like to think it is slightly stronger but I am sure it is the same. Any ideas?

So:

1. EOS Switches adjusted
2. EOS Switches reflowed with new solder
3. 130Ω for left and 138Ω for bottom & top right
4. Swapped new Fliptronics board
5. In Test, TOP/BOTTOM RIGHT will not "HOLD" they don't do anything.
6. No EOS errors
7. No bad fuses
8. Fixed connector "Broken wire"

Bottom right Flipper is weak, TOP & LEFT are fine.

#15 8 years ago

Have you considered that this could be mechanical? Have you looked at the flipper mechanism and stop itself? Weak flippers can often be binding in the coil sleeve due to mushrooming or other damage. If you haven't rebuilt the flippers, it's worth a shot.

Also, let's forget test mode. Will the flippers hold in a game?

#16 8 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Have you considered that this could be mechanical? Have you looked at the flipper mechanism and stop itself? Weak flippers can often be binding in the coil sleeve due to mushrooming or other damage. If you haven't rebuilt the flippers, it's worth a shot.
Also, let's forget test mode. Will the flippers hold in a game?

Flippers hold in game, and they hold strong. It is the point between 0% to 100% they are weak. For example, it is almost impossible to hit the left loop.

This weekend I will pull the flipper mech out, clean and inspect etc. I have a box of new blue-coils. I think I am going to plop a new one in regardless as well.

#17 8 years ago

Since you have done a lot of detective work and swapping of boards, this feels mechanical to me. Good luck this weekend. Let me know how you make out.

Marc

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from Jean-Luc-Picard:

This weekend I will pull the flipper mech out, clean and inspect etc.

Be sure the front bracket holding the coil, and coil stop. Are lined up straight, and not leaning in or out. I had a disformed coil stop leaning in on a MB that took some time to figure out.

LTG : )™

#19 8 years ago

Do not change the coil unless it is damaged or shorted out (which isn't in this case) The coil is almost never the issue and you're just creating work for yourself.

Focus on the mechanical parts, the pawl, linkage, sleeve and the stop.

Marc

#20 8 years ago

Good news, I changed the coil with a brand new one. And now my right flipper is strong like bull. I can make that left loop like a pro now

#21 8 years ago

Did you change the coil sleeve as well? Coils don't get weak. They either work or they don't...

Happy you're working again, though!

Marc

#22 8 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Did you change the coil sleeve as well? Coils don't get weak. They either work or they don't...
Happy you're working again, though!
Marc

The sleeve was "fused" into the coil, I could not pull it out. It felt like it was melted. The new coils came with sleeves. As well I noticed the orange/black was swapped on the EOS. Not sure if that makes a difference so I fixed that as well. I also cleaned the shaft and cleaned the joints. Even if the coil was fine. I already had a box of coils and it took me 30 secs to plop in a new one. And I like the feeling of, OH YEAH NEW POWERFUL COIL. When I hit all them spots I never could. The fact I got Final Frontier & Grand Champion on a weak flipper blows my mind. Imagine my possibilities with a strong right flipper.... I feel like Data when he got his emotion chip.

#23 8 years ago

Sleeve fused into the coil means the heat from the coil warped the hole at the center of the coil. In all likelihood the warped hole was also affecting the movement of the plunger.

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