(Topic ID: 329216)

Over voltage at Test Points (TPs) Question. Please Help?

By TevB

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Quench
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#1 1 year ago

So I finally had my midlife crisis. I succumbed, and found myself in the presence of Xenon. This was a 2 birds, one, no-brainer decision; as my son, after playing it's iPad version, was enamored and suggesting we get one. She arrived from Lexington KY. The seller meticulously packed it, arriving fully functional. She played expectedly better, and for good lengths, flawlessly. A midst a heated game between me and my 7 year old, her heart gave out. Realizing this was going to be a lifetime commitment, I began my crash course in living with a pinball machine.
If you guys wouldn’t mind helping a complete newbie, I would very thankful.

Written in pencil were my readings: **see fig 1. **

So I replaced the board. The new board had almost identical readings.
I started thinking it must be related to the transformer. Several revisitings of related topics later, I had the Sherlock Holmes moment. I tested the voltage coming into my house. It was 122.3 VAC.

**see figs 2&3**
Does it need to be configured (jumped) to 120 VAC, as it is set to 115 VAC? The MPU only illuminates the red, over voltage led. Researching this, I looked into how transformers are built. Does it make sense that with a lower voltage, the stepping up or down effect (i.e. 1/2, 4/1) would be higher in tolerance?

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#2 1 year ago

Your voltages are fine, nite the range given in the manual. Wall voltage is also very good, the typical issue there is when the voltage is low.

Check out pin wiki for more detailed steps to take. I’d recommend follow the test sequence recommended there. Very possible to have an issue at the solenoid driver or mpu board. It’s very common to have poor continuity given connectors are 40+ years old.

#3 1 year ago

The machine came with a brand new MPU (A4) and solenoid/voltage regulator board (A3). Both from allteksystems. Is there a way to post a video on here? I have some of what happens when it tries to boot up. Thank You

#4 1 year ago

I don't think videos can be posted here but you can upload one to YouTube and link to it here.

Congrats on your Xenon! With the advice of the group here you'll be back in business soon

#5 1 year ago

What do the pins of J4 on the SDB and MPU look like? Shiny, or grey or green? As others said, run thru the troubleshooting list on Pinwiki and report back.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from TevB:

I tested the voltage coming into my house. It was 122.3 VAC.
Does it need to be configured (jumped) to 120 VAC

Welcome to Pinside!

Looking at the Alltek schematic for the MPU board, the red overvoltage LED comes on when the 5V power to the MPU board is high, or more likely there's a lack of 12V power to the MPU. It's unrelated to your transformer.

Measure your voltages at the test points on the solenoid driver board and then the test points on the MPU board.
Report back with your findings.

#7 1 year ago

Even though the boards were swapped with new, I would doubt the connectors were repinned. can you please upload some pics of the connectors - specifically J4 on the MPU and J3 on the Solenoid driver board. More than likely as the game heated up with extended play one or more of the connector pins expanded and went open.

#8 1 year ago

Thank You all for the responses. I will get to the real job, once I get home this evening, where the real job will begin. Thank You for your time and help.
Just one question: how come, they were settings for the jumpers, for both 115 VAC, and 120 VAC? Wouldn’t the 120 VAC setting be better?

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from TevB:

Just one question: how come, they were settings for the jumpers, for both 115 VAC, and 120 VAC? Wouldn’t the 120 VAC setting be better?

'Better' depends on your perspective.

With the transformer wired as 115VAC input and your mains line actually at 122VAC it means the output voltages of the transformer will be slightly higher.
The difference in voltage is nowhere near enough to cause transformer damage. The game will be generating a little more heat in wasted energy but you might prefer the slightly extra power from the flippers.
I prefer to wire games to the proper mains line voltage.

#10 1 year ago

Sorry for asking so many newbie questions (I had to take a crash course in soldering, since the side saucer coil needed the contact redone. I also quickly picked up on using a multimeter, and how to read the schematics).
About schematics: on the power supply schematic. What does the abbreviation: SW ILL BUS mean? Switch power bus? What is a bus?
Again, thank you for all the support.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from TevB:

Sorry for asking so many newbie questions

We're all here to help

Quoted from TevB:

What does the abbreviation: SW ILL BUS mean?

SW ILL BUS (Switched Illumination Bus) refers to the power voltage used for the lamps that the game can switch on and off. We refer to them as Switched lamps, Feature lamps or controlled lamps - all the same thing. With these old Ballys it's usually 5.4VDC or 6.5VDC depending on the game.

BUS usually refers to the power.
RET (Return) usually refers to ground.
ILL is short for Illumination.
G.I. is short for General Illumination (the lamps that are always on) which illuminate the general playfield area and behind the backglass.

Another useful thing, see below how the wire colors are indicated in the Bally schematics:

Centaur_MPU_Wiring.pngCentaur_MPU_Wiring.png
CoinDoor_WireColors256.pngCoinDoor_WireColors256.png

#12 1 year ago

It is really dumb and confusing that they list them 11.9v and 230v. They should either list both the voltage with the cap in circuit (15/230) or both without the SDB caps out of circuit (11.9/190).

#13 1 year ago

I believe you, as mentioned, should jumper the transformer to suit your mains voltage by changing 2 of the jumpers on the transformer.

Easier to do with the transformer panel removed from the machine.

2 to 8 will stay the same
remove the jumper 3 to 6 and add a jumper from lug 4 to lug 6.
remove the jumper 7 to 10 and add a jumper from lug 7 to lug 11.

This will reduce the voltages.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

...or more likely there's a lack of 12V power to the MPU.

I believe the Alltech guy once told me these boards only require the 5V.

8V is too high, as the CPU board is telling you. Switch the transformer to 120V. Power companies are allowed to go slightly above and below 120V. Delivering power isn't an exact science. More like a juggling act. They prefer to stay slightly above in part because it makes you use more power, causing bigger bills. Hot weather is usually about the only time most people will see their wall voltage drop below 120V.

The power infrastructure in our country has greatly improved in the 40+ years since that game was built. Unless you live in a neighborhood with sketchy power, switch it back to 120 and work on your other issues.

#15 1 year ago

I am very thankful and blown away by the Pinside community. Here is a quick update. Here are the photos requested. Looks like the pins on J4 on the solenoid/voltage (A3) board need cleaning. To test the test points I will have to have it powered on. Will that hurt these boards? Thank You everyone. 18D4C2DB-2BAB-4B78-BF9B-344575BD62A5 (resized).jpeg18D4C2DB-2BAB-4B78-BF9B-344575BD62A5 (resized).jpegF580EEEB-5828-46B1-A395-D8E2DA4BC09C (resized).jpegF580EEEB-5828-46B1-A395-D8E2DA4BC09C (resized).jpeg82803160-4FF6-44C4-A6C8-CDE900928C71 (resized).jpeg82803160-4FF6-44C4-A6C8-CDE900928C71 (resized).jpegF69B137E-9931-4B9B-B402-2E2D9370C7B3 (resized).jpegF69B137E-9931-4B9B-B402-2E2D9370C7B3 (resized).jpeg3D16ABCD-4DCB-435F-8168-1AC299FD71B4 (resized).jpeg3D16ABCD-4DCB-435F-8168-1AC299FD71B4 (resized).jpeg5B0FFF35-36F3-4F8A-9618-7C237760F3B5 (resized).jpeg5B0FFF35-36F3-4F8A-9618-7C237760F3B5 (resized).jpegE56F7566-103C-49C6-864B-1FC591146C11 (resized).jpegE56F7566-103C-49C6-864B-1FC591146C11 (resized).jpeg48C59B4A-A583-4A73-8DDA-36FD8DBBDEB9 (resized).jpeg48C59B4A-A583-4A73-8DDA-36FD8DBBDEB9 (resized).jpeg0CDF90BF-39BF-4152-B9D8-CE3E4343CEA8 (resized).jpeg0CDF90BF-39BF-4152-B9D8-CE3E4343CEA8 (resized).jpeg0BCB6B7D-0B35-4B8F-A13B-0F887669F6EA (resized).jpeg0BCB6B7D-0B35-4B8F-A13B-0F887669F6EA (resized).jpeg802C97B0-8080-4A60-90FC-5F60D65C9DAB (resized).jpeg802C97B0-8080-4A60-90FC-5F60D65C9DAB (resized).jpegFDF02057-5796-4D3D-88D7-64860FBFE93B (resized).jpegFDF02057-5796-4D3D-88D7-64860FBFE93B (resized).jpeg7B655B43-DB66-4CF5-AB2E-E4D01D922B6B (resized).jpeg7B655B43-DB66-4CF5-AB2E-E4D01D922B6B (resized).jpeg

#16 1 year ago

J4 up close

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#17 1 year ago
Quoted from TevB:

Looks like the pins on J4 on the solenoid/voltage (A3) board need cleaning.

Don't clean the pins. They're relatively new and cleaning will remove the shiny tin plating.

Quoted from TevB:

To test the test points I will have to have it powered on. Will that hurt these boards?

It won't hurt the boards provided you're careful not to accidentally short your multi-meter probe somewhere else you shouldn't.
Plug everything back in. You might find that the game works now that the connectors have been reseated.

Quoted from phishrace:

8V is too high, as the CPU board is telling you.

That measured 8V is the switched lamp voltage which the CPU does not monitor, it's not the logic 5V power supply voltage reading.
That 8V switched lamp voltage is high though.

Quoted from phishrace:

I believe the Alltech guy once told me these boards only require the 5V.

I can only believe what the schematics say - check out the Alltek MPU schematic snippet below:

Alltek_Crowbar.pngAlltek_Crowbar.png

#18 1 year ago

I just jumped the transformer to 120 VAC. The connectors were reseated after checking them.
TP results:
PRIOR PRESCRIBED AFTER
TP1 8.02 5.4 +/- .8 VDC 7.56
TP2 190.2 230+/-27.4 VDC 186.5
TP3 14.55 11.9+/-1.4 VDC 14.3
TP4 7.4 7.3+/-.9 VAC 7.07
TP5 45.8. 43+/-5.4VDC. 42.75

I thought that by switching to 120 VAC, drop the voltages some. Yet, I was wondering if there was a way to fine-tune it. This novice will now go check the solenoid voltage and master processing unit, if Buddha now, fails. I have an online copy of Bally’s “Electronic Pinball Repair Procedures” that I have been slowly deciphering. Noob here is more of a biological circuitry troubleshooter (I’m a veterinarian). It is very nice to meet you guys. If any of you ever need animal troubleshooting, by all means keep in touch.

Gonna go try turning Ms. Xenon, on…

#19 1 year ago

She powered up and briefly played until the ball hung up in the upper saucer. Seemed like the ejection mechanism did not have enough power to release the ball, and the machine conked out again.
Quench, is it still okay to check the TPs with the over voltage led on and beeping?

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from TevB:

Seemed like the ejection mechanism did not have enough power to release the ball, and the machine conked out again.

Your solenoid voltage at TP5 is just about on the money. Spec is 43V DC. The upper saucer issue is a separate fault.

Quoted from TevB:

Quench, is it still okay to check the TPs with the over voltage led on and beeping?

Yes, by all means. The voltages in the failed condition might better give you clues to the problem.

Is the game still powering on properly? Go through the diagnostic tests which are accessed via the little red push button switch inside the coin door to get some familiarity with them. The diagnostics are discussed in the manual. See whether solenoid test is working properly.

#21 1 year ago

I finally figured how to post a video on YouTube.


Hear that humming? Is it still okay to leave it on whilst testing?

#22 1 year ago

I am certifiably a noob! The lamp board is affected. Q55 is burnt. So is a line above Q58-Q59. You can even see it on the video above, recorded on 1/7/23. So I’m getting a replacement board. Would you guys have any recommendations of what to test to figure what caused it to burn out before powering it up with the new board?
Also, is there an issue on the lower right on the vocalized board?CAA87996-C0E6-40BB-906C-C80EE09C4257 (resized).jpegCAA87996-C0E6-40BB-906C-C80EE09C4257 (resized).jpeg

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#23 1 year ago
Quoted from TevB:

Hear that humming? Is it still okay to leave it on whilst testing?

That Humming may be a stuck-on coil. Leaving it on will burn out the coil or transistor.
You said you had problems with the saucer. Disconnect one wire on the saucer coil and see if that was causing the humming. Turn it on just long enough to see if the humming is gone. If it still hums turn it off.

#24 1 year ago

when you turn her on, do you notice a coil lock on, like a target reset coil or a ball eject coil or any coil? No coil on the playfield should be permanently on upon boot up going into attract mode.

to reduce or possibly eliminate any excess noise/hum, try removing the sound/speech from there mounting positions on the backboard, carefully let them hang and start her up and see if the hum is reduced if not gone? Express extreme care when leaving a board hang so that there isn't any chance of the rear circuitry touching something it shouldn't, if in doubt, as the board may move from your original resting position, isolate it with say a piece of cardboard?

#25 1 year ago

The saucer coil isn’t the issue. All coils seem to be okay. After jumping the transformer to 120 VAC, the game briefly played until the ball landed in the top saucer. It seemed like it just did not have power to kick out the ball. Tried it again later and it played well until a second ball joined the other on the side saucer, where it didn’t eject the ball already in side saucer.
Other thing of note is that while the game is working the speakers put out the individual sounds of the lamps as the are sequentially lit. It actually sounded like a pretty decent tune. I recorded it on video. However, it it hard to hear it on the recording.
I am hoping all this will resolve replacing the LED/lamp driver board that burnt?
However, any suggestions as to what have may caused it to burn (please see pic above), that I should troubleshoot before connecting the new one?
I’ll see if I can post the video of the ghost sound music from the light display.

#27 1 year ago

In the schematic image:
Q55 is burnt. It’s involves drop target 1 and it’s associated top button 1.
How do I figure out what caused it to fry?
What do the numbers correspond to?
On the U4 chip the numbers 4 and 7?
On the J3 connector it’s 9?

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#28 1 year ago

I also saw the screw that should go in the upper right of the board is absent. Could that have caused a short?

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#29 1 year ago

Hey guys, if you don’t mind, I still need help.
I replaced the light board. When turning it on, it did the same thing again. Is the over voltage warning on the MPU board caused by the above spec voltage at TP1? Or under voltage at TP2 on the rectifier board? It was also replaced.

This is what I get from the test points on the rectifier board:
TP1 Should be 5.4 +/- .8 VDC Mine is 7.56
TP2 230+/-27.4 VDC Mine is 186.5
TP3 11.9+/-1.4 VDC Mine is 14.3
TP4 7.3+/-.9 VAC Mine is 7.07
TP5 43+/-5.4VDC. Mine is 42.75

#30 1 year ago

Looks to me you may have a short in that drop target 1 light circuit.
Inspect the bulbs and sockets on that circuit. I think there are two bulbs in that circuit.

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

Looks to me you may have a short in that drop target 1 light circuit.
Inspect the bulbs and sockets on that circuit. I think there are two bulbs in that circuit.

Could it be the bulb holder? All the ones behind the drop targets are covered in oxidation. Replacing theses as a newbie looks a little overwhelming. But will do if need be. How else could they be shorted?
Would that also cause the humming?

Also, how can I find a parts list for Xenon so I can order the correct ones?

#32 1 year ago

have a look under the playfield where the suspect lamp holder/s is, see if a related wire nearby has for instance a blob of solder causing a short?
Check the solder tab isn't touching anything other than the wire soldered to it. If you're unsure take some clear pics and upload them.

how confident are you with a multi meter? assuming you have one.

Search Bally Pinwiki and it will have numerous manuals you can check out that will have parts used in your machine.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

Regarding humming, which appears to 'noise', with the machine off, try unscrewing the sound/speech board from the ground mounts, letting it hang and being super cautious the rear isn't touching anything, you could put some cardboard behind it, or with it on and one screw holding it in place, undo that one screw with one hand, holding the speech board in the other, pull it ever so slightly from the mounting points and hear if the humming is reduced or even gone?

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from TevB:

Is the over voltage warning on the MPU board caused by the above spec voltage at TP1? Or under voltage at TP2 on the rectifier board? It was also replaced.

The voltages at TP1 and TP2 on the rectifier board are unrelated to your overvoltage issue on the MPU board.

How are those voltages measurements requested a week ago at the test points on the solenoid driver board and MPU board going?

Quoted from TevB:

What do the numbers correspond to?
On the U4 chip the numbers 4 and 7?
On the J3 connector it’s 9?

The U4 chip is a "4514", which is a 1 of 16 de-multiplexer chip. '7' in the schematic indicates physical pin 7. '4' indicates logical output 4.
'9' at the J3 connector means pin 9 on that connector.

4514_Pinouts.png4514_Pinouts.png
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