Lol

Crap... Was hoping we only had a few days left before we had a reveal

I would hope so. But not so sure!

Richard

All I can say is I'm keeping mine. And just threw a few games down on it.

As much as I've spent on pinball in the last year, I really hope they make ToM, TOTAN and CV. In that case my money will be 100% secure in my bank account.

Not necessarily what I want, but to me it makes sense that remake games would stick to ones where originals are popular, but not populous, and are currently resold at prices higher or comparable to what they could sell a remake for. Theatre of Magic Tales of the Arabian Nights Cirqus Voltaire I think are all qualifiers. I love system 11 games, but I feel like they were made in a quantity where people can still find nice originals for less than a remake would cost, like Whirlwind, and others made in lower numbers aren't very desirable. Any System 11 games I've wanted I could find over time. Maybe the exception is Banzai Run and I would love if a new run was made, but the production probably isn't worth it, sort of like it wasn't back then haha.

It just needs to be TAF or TZ to sell out.

Price has little to do with it imo. Buying a 30+ year old game versus nib is a world of difference. Finding an old game in good working order for a fair price from a standup seller in your area is often a challenge. Then you have to figure out transportation and deal with all the maintenance/repairs to get the game working well. Compare that to being able to call a reputable dealer and have a brand new, upgraded game with support delivered straight to your door. As long as the game is popular, it will sell.

Without having to leaf through 10 pages, can someone tell me WHO is the new manufacturer, and WHAT are they making?

This sounds like the beginning of an Abbott and Costello joke.
No definite game title yet.

For pete's sake

I'll check in in a few weeks.

Pedritti.

TBD on title

jawjaw I would rather an original. Maybe this can drop their prices

If the quality is there, it will.

Getting a NIB title with all new electronics and warranty at (guessing here) 8k mark as where the current 30+ year old now are more then 1.5x that price is a no brainier. Most of us are players and will enjoy them but there are a few nostalgic folks that will still want to tinker with the old stuff and that's fine too, they will benefit from it as well when the prices balance out once the titles have been introduced.

That’s the title

Is pedretti the same as PB bros?

Maybe a HEP for 20k. Most were 12 to 14k.

https://pinballmag.fr/en/pinball-brothers-and-pedretti-merge/

https://europinball.net/

During covid when no other new pins really coming out, only other one was Godzilla

You make some good points. I guess my thought is that a fair price for a Whirlwind or Bad Cats right now is so much lower than what I imagine a remake would cost that if someone wanted to pay $8k or whatever now it wouldn't be hard to find a very nice one with new playfield, plastics, leds, restoration etc. With MM and the other CGC remakes it seemed like you could get a remake or an original with all the issues you mentioned at comparable pricing and would make more sense to get a remake.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/170730
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/169496

Obviously these don't have a warranty/service or new code and boards, which have varying degrees of value for the buyer. In my head I'm thinking why make a remake to begin with when this is what you can get at that price level, but I think what you're saying is as nice as these listings are, if the option were available to buy a nib at that price why wouldn't you, which makes sense. Sort of a chicken egg scenario

I rather have an original as well but that makes no difference. Every older game I have ever bought needed a decent amount of work and extra expense even when they appeared to be in good shape. Things like rebuilding flippers, replacing broken plastics/parts, ramps, etc. Then I like to upgrade to nice leds, ocd boards, and maybe colordmd. Even after doing all that work there is usually other things that need attention. I don't mind the work but something you have to consider when buying older games. Remakes have all the upgrades, play 100%, and no hassles. I think a lot of people are willing to pay extra for that. Same reason why a lot of collectors just buy new games.

We would probably buy a remake of TOTAN especially if got upgrades like CGC did with theirs. This is mainly due to TOTAN pricing has crept up into oblivion.

We like the game but not paying 12k+ for it just cause its pretty.

Good Luck to Pedretti though. I look forward to whatever they plan to produce. Cary Hardy knows what's coming but cannot speak on it yet due to NDA. He seemed very pleased at what is to be released.

I guess we call the pinball making joint venture of Pedretti and PinballBrothers as "Euro Pinball Corp" now... and I am sure they'll make something interesting from a financial point of view (they see the same sales detail on older titles and resale prices we see, and likely have some analytics that they feel is the sweet spot to build new machines that will sell).

There is no way they're going to be dumb enough to remake system 11 titles. Look at Fathom or Centaur remakes. They don't exactly seem to be flying off the shelves. Who would pay 8k for a shallow ass system 11 game? The market would be so limited.

I bet they focus on Bally Williams A titles only. That's where the juice is for sure.

Everyone has said it all. Nothing I can add. Hope it all works out. More pinball machines is better than fewer pinball machines.

There was a frenzy recently over the Radical that tilt amusements picked up in a bulk buy. I think it went for over $9k

I would *think* that System 11 machines would sell good, especially if a 2.0 was implemented.

People paid good money for Fathoms...and then they realized they just paid $9000 or more for a Fathom. Reality was unkind and now they sell at a loss. Same will happen for Centaur.

There's a novelty factor here that just doesn't work long-term. While buying a $10,000 Big Guns with new code might seem exciting at the time, by the time the machine is paid for and built people would already be desperate to sell.

We'll see this with Pulp Fiction, I have absolutely no doubt. It's easy to get caught up in the hype but when people finally receive their games in 2027 the reality will set it in that they just paid $10K+ for a fancy Nitro Groundshaker and the dumping will begin.

Remaking ancient games is not sustainable, and the pool of remaining 90s stuff that people actually really want is very small. This is a world where people are driven insane by the lack of "pinball moments" on your average brand new LCD game, and you think they'll be happy with some warmed over 80s game? I don't see it.

IDKW but you made me curious as HELL about the 10k nitro groundshaker!

"This NGS has it all, including real seismo-shakers, can be picked up by nearby geological monitoring stations"

Agree, however ‘Pulp Fiction’ has one thing going for it that MIGHT make it an exception: THEME.

I think one of the issues with older titles like system 11 is people buy them for nostalgia and as a collectible. They don't really have lasting power with their shallow rules. Even with some 2.0 code it's hard to believe there's much of a market when you can can a far superior game for the same or less.

Like I love playing taxi but I'd never own one again cause it gets boring after a few games. I enjoy playing it at shows but could never imagine having the desire for a new one. Ymmv.

Ya, with PF you're paying an extra 2k for the theme + assets (I'd bet there will never be another QT sanctioned pinball machine), and then an extra 3k for it being NIB quality. If you just want a street level game, there's plenty with a very similar layout that can be had for just that remaining 3k. Divide it up however you see fit, but it's not the same as buying a beatup NGS unless the only thing you're looking at is layout.

Still no news. This makes me sad.

Why am I glued to this sad story. Maybe for the Drama that follows the announcement. Gonna need a big bag of popcorn for that.

Who knows, maybe they’re not making any remakes at all. So far it’s just an unconfirmed rumor. And if older pins get redone at the same time new ones are coming out, well I’ll wait to see the new ones first

Anything yet.

I assume more info will come out either during the next big show or around the start of the next pin release cycle.

They are making remakes. They announced it.

IMG_8339 (resized).jpeg

That is good news.

My main hope for remakes is that they either A) include new modern code or B) leave a possibility for the community to more easily create modern code.
Can you imagine TOM or CFTBL with modern rules?

I love the general thrust of projects like BoP2.0, Rudy's Nightmare, Fathom Mermaid edition, Cactus Canyon Continued, etc

They used the wording "evolved" remakes. Perhaps this is hinting at this.

Interesting - Planetary Pinball has added the original style CV light tub to their website as well as a new CV light tub with a larger opening for the 2nd speaker.... https://www.planetarypinball.com/pinball-03-9696XL

.

Based on historical events, PPS has flat out said no to distributing custom code and sent cease and desist letters on the basis of IP infringement. Making pinball open source - PPS simply won't allow for it and definitely not what "evolved" means.
I would guess it's very likely the "evolved" talk is likely to be not only what CGC offers but a 2.0 code/art option with WIFI connection to a gamers database of some sort.

2.0 kits are just cringy as hell to me. YAY for new rules and sound effects/music but the voice call outs are just freaking terrible. TERRIBLE.
I've played with AI reproducing voice call outs using authentic audio clips of actors. It's REALLY tough to get the exact voice inflection you want but it's still better than what Pedretti or pinsound have put out using goofy voice actors.

It just doesn't make sense to remake a classic that people want and then completely change it to something nobody was asking for. Might as well develop a new game if you are going to rewrite the rules.

Some older games need updated rules for various reasons. Being able to choose at coin up is very nice.

Does Soren's hand-crafted updated firmware efforts have any bearing on what Euro Pinball (Pedretti) could/would release? I think I read the FAST controllers being planned would be emulating the original code platform, so Soren's approach might be the quick and dirty way to get something 'evolved'????

Pedretti has already got some kind of WPC and System11b emulation working on the fast controller (they did it for Funhouse 2.0 and Whirlwind 2.0, respectively). I don’t think they re-wrote the code from scratch based on how the FH2.0 hardware acts when running the original version.

I expect that their “evolved” versions will work something like their existing 2.0 versions. At boot-up you can select the original ROMs, or their “2.0” gameplay option. That way owners who ant the original experience can just run the original game (in emulation), and people wanting to run the newer code can as well. Switching currently requires a reset of the system, but they made it faster than rebooting a while back.

I've heard many people say the emulated original modes are buggy, so hopefully they can come up with some sort of improvement in that area if they did this. I have yet to play any of these 2.0 kits that I liked, I'd always just rather be playing the original game (not bugged of course)

I'd love to hear about what these bugs are. Please message me with any details on the specific title and the issue so we can use that info to improve product.

We strive to make the game play experience (with the exception of the difference in displays) indistinguishable from the original.

Aaron
FAST Pinball