(Topic ID: 13185)

Lethal Weapon 3 will not power on.

By level42

12 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 12 years ago by level42
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#1 12 years ago

I was playing my LW3 today, in about the 8th game, when all of a sudden, the machine just shut off!

About 5 seconds later, the lights came back on only, and there was a loud hum from the machine.

After power cycling the machine again, it repeats the lights on and hum only. No DMD, no Sound, nothing else.

I've checked the fuses and the bottom most fuse (of 4) on the power supply board popped, but this did not pop when the machine initially shut off, but about 5 minutes later durring a bit of testing.

When we power the machine on, the sling solenoids hum and seem to get stuck in a on position, I have check the contacts and there is nothing jammed that I can see with regards to the slings.

If this helps at all, the topper light (after sitting for a few minutes) spins very slowly initially and begins to speed up over the course of about 20 seconds.

Upon investigation I have noticed that F6 on the power supply board is now blowing, after about 20 seconds. Also there is a lot of electrical smell.

Going through the schematics, F6 goes to CN3x9 (4&5) and CN1x12 (3)

But from there, I can't seem to find where they go.

Any tips?

Thanks for any advice.

#2 12 years ago

Try unplugging one at a time Connectors from the CPU board and booting it.. This will help locate your problem.

#3 12 years ago

My LW3 did the same thing. Turned out the be the transformer. It also killed my dmd when it died.

#4 12 years ago
Quoted from Gexchange:

Try unplugging one at a time Connectors from the CPU board and booting it.. This will help locate your problem.

You mean, all but one? or only one at a time?

Quoted from marlboroa:

My LW3 did the same thing. Turned out the be the transformer. It also killed my dmd when it died.

God, I sure hope not.

#6 12 years ago
Quoted from level42:

My LW3 did the same thing. Turned out the be the transformer. It also killed my dmd when it died.

Might be a good idea to download the manual and disconnect everything from the transformer.
Measure all the transformer outs then reconnect the PS PCB and measure all those voltages, then start connecting power to the other pcbs like the CPU and see what happens from there as Gex suggested.

Agreed, a blown transformer would suck big time!

#7 12 years ago

Thanks for the suggestions guys, at work here till 5, but I'll test this out when I get home.

Would the manual list the appropriate voltage outputs so I could compare them with my test?

#8 12 years ago

Look for burnt connectors. You can fix it. Do CPR. I had a bad Bridge Rectifier too. They cost 4 bucks.

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#9 12 years ago

I would bank a ton of money on it being the power supply.

#10 12 years ago
Quoted from eabundy:

I would bank a ton of money on it being the power supply.

I'm thinking this also, but I've yet to determine this.

I'm going to check the transistor tonight, and the burnt connectors. As well as the connections to the CPU board.

Any other suggestions, lay 'em on me!

Thanks Guys!

#11 12 years ago

Sorry to bring a suggestion that is not only much work but also expensive if it proves to be the problem area There are so many hints/clues you gave...burning smell...topper spinning...lights on but nothing else..humming...fuses blowing...etc.

Here is my suggestion. KEEP THE MACHINE UNPLUGGED! Now...remove the power supply board and also the cpu board from the back cabinet and examine the backside of both for burnt traces. If none found remove the PPB board from the back cabinet and do the same. Again, my suggestion is to do this before you do anything else! If you do not listen you run the risk of wiggling some wire or finding something suspicious like one burnt connector and then fixing it and THEN POWERING THE PIN ON There by making things possibly much worse than they are already.

Just my 2 cents...good luck wither way

#12 12 years ago

First off, I'd like to apologize for my ignorance here, but please bare with me. I am trying my best.

Ok, so I'm trying my best to test this machine with my limited to no knowladge.

Here are the list of things that I have been suggested to try:

[list]1 - Check the connection to the CPU board one at a time.
2 - Check the transformer.
3 - Disconnect everything from the transformer and test voltages, plug in psu and check voltages, continue down the list.
4 - Check for burnt connectors.
5 - Check the transistors (Driver and Pre-Driver) Possibly 74...04.
6 - Check the IC and PIA[/list]

This all make very little sense to me, I'm about 2 hours into this hobby for repairs.

I have a MultiMeter, Analog

[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/photobiu.jpg/][img]http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3348/photobiu.jpg[/img][/url]

And I'm not sure how to even use it. I don't even know where to put the leads, or what settings to use.

#1 - I'd like to avoid testing this until I find out why the fuses keep blowing in the PSU. (Unless you think I should check this anyways)

#2, #3, #5, #6 - With respects to 2,3,5 and 6, these all require that I use the MultiMeter. I assume for checking different things, would require different settings on the meter.

Specifically with regards to #5, which settings would I set the meter to, in order to test the transistors?

[quote]2d. Before Turning the Game On: Quick and Easy Transistor Testing.
Before ever turning on a new DataEast/Sega game, test all the TIP122/102 solenoid transistors. Do this while in the backbox (examining the fuses and the GI connectors). A blown transistor can really confuse a game. This is the procedure to use, and it only takes about 60 seconds to test all the TIP122/102 transistors:
Make sure the game is off.
Put the DMM (digital multi meter) on ohms (buzz tone).
Put one lead on the ground strap in the backbox.
Touch the other lead to the metal tab on the TIP122/102 transistors.
If zero ohms (buzz) is shown, the transistor is bad! (shorted on).
There are a number of TIP122/102 transistors on the DataEast/Sega CPU board:

Q8-Q13: located at the upper right (special coil transistors).
Q23-Q30: located at the lower left (constant power transistors).
Q39-Q46: located at the lower left (multiplexed transistors).
Q72-Q79: located at the lower right (lamp matrix return rows).
Replace the bad TIP122 transistor(s) with a more robust TIP102 immediately before turning the game on. Replace the associated pre-driver 2N4401 transistor too.[/quote]

#4 - With regards to #4, I've checked for burnt connectors, and I can only seem to find one, that I think is burnt.

[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/photo1csz.jpg/][img]http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2702/photo1csz.jpg[/img][/url]

#5 - I'm not sure which transistors you are referring to (74 to 04).

#6 - Not quite sure what these even are, where to find them, or how to test them.

I hope I didn't miss anything.

I guess I have the worst luck, most issues are very specific, where as mine is quite vague. The machine will not boot. As far as I'm concerned it could be ANYTHING!

Thanks again to any one who can offer me some insight here.

***LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED PICTURES OF ANYTHING SPECIFIC!***

#13 12 years ago

Friend you are at a place we all were at, at one time. The beginning of learning everything lol. Listen. Don't freak out or panic...please please take a dozen photos (close-up) of your inside upper back cabinet. Then tape label (if you need to) all your connectors. Then unplug them. Then remove the main CPU board(Large one) and your smaller Power supply board (smallest one usually of them all). Ignore your sound board, leave it there. It is not likely your problem area. Once the boards are out, flip them over and look for burnt traces. If any are found you will need to decide on sending it in for repair (if possible) or buying a new board. I am not trying to be mean here and I may even be wrong at what I am suggesting...I am stubborn though and I am sincere in helping. If you do not rule out major damage to the backside of those boards and quickly, you run the risk of driving yourself and this forum crazy (lol) trying to figure out your problem. With what you have described as issues, the integrity of these boards must be proven as acceptable before wasting hours and hours of testing time

GL and it will be all right in the end...we will get you there

#14 12 years ago

I forgot to add...I have a Lethal 3 myself. This is good news because I will go out of my way to photograph anything you need so you can always reconnect your machine back to how it should be You really really need to examine those boards first before you waste time probing pia's and transistors. You have sling solenoids powered on and humming you said. It is most likely do to a burnt trace on the back of the main cpu board in my opinion. It may be repairable. If yes then you can do that and move on to testing 122 transistors and pia's. Those sling sols are 32 volt i think and they are not even represented on your PBB board. So having said that they are getting ground continuity from somewhere and it is probably the back of a trace on the cpu board. remember you said solenoids as in plural...all three correct? If only one then maybe it is a transistor on the front of the main board. You still have other issues though. Need to pull the cpu and power supply board and examine both sides before going any further. It is easy to do and once you do it once you will likely do it many times in the future just for fun (practice), collector quality cleaning chore or even simple but easier diagnostics of a problem while the board is on the bench instead of in the back upper cabinet

#15 12 years ago

Just a update, (Specifically, regarding F6 on the Power supply)

Spent the afternoon testing the connections, we've verified the voltages from the transformer. The only thing we noticed was the +6V output (2 yellow leads) were pushing out about +11V, not sure if this is an issue. (<- Says for G1 lamps, to Power supply board)

Upon our testing, we installed a fuse in both F5 and F6 (We used 5A 250V FB) and we connected one connector at a time to the CPU board, until we found what cause the fuse to pop.

On the CPU board, we were able to determine that CN11 causes F6 to blow, and CN19 causes F5 to blow.

Also note, that when we tested the transitors with my dads analog meter, they all gave about a 10ohms reading except Q65-Q71 did not register anything at all, not 0ohms literally nothing at all. Would this mean that the transistors are no good, or am I doing something wrong here?

Q64 (which is in the same bank of transistors (Above Q65) did however give a correct reading.

Above this bank of transistors, there are RA7 and RA8 (which I guess are resistors) which appear to be blackened, but this whips off. Not sure if these are burnt or how to test these.

Thanks again for any help.

#16 12 years ago
Quoted from level42:

Q65-Q71 did not register anything at all, not 0ohms literally nothing at all. Would this mean that the transistors are no good

How did you test those Transistors?

#17 12 years ago

Sounds like he was testing the transistors using resistance mode / ohms instead of putting it into diode test mode.

#18 12 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

level42 said:Q65-Q71 did not register anything at all, not 0ohms literally nothing at all. Would this mean that the transistors are no good
How did you test those Transistors?

We tested these with my dads 40 year old multimeter in resistance mode (Rx1 or what ever)

Quoted from eabundy:

Sounds like he was testing the transistors using resistance mode / ohms instead of putting it into diode test mode.

I'm not sure if my dads meeter even has diode test mode, or if it does, how to set that mode. (I am getting a DMM soon.)

#19 12 years ago

Radio Shack has a couple IMHO good options under 30.00

1 week later
#20 12 years ago

So, big big BIG! thanks to machine.slave for his time and patients tonight. After a few hours of testing and fighting with the De-solder pump we were able to change the bridge rectifier (DB1) on the PSU, which he graciously sacrificed from his JP. (I will repay you)

After getting the board reinstalled into my LW3, we have partial success. I'm down to only 1 fuse blowing, as opposed to 3. The F5 (4A) on the PSU is still popping. I've got the audio now, and can actually start a game, (The ball pops out, but the ball launcher isnt going). Also the DMD does not illuminate at all, and some of the lamps on the PF are EXTREMELY! bright, probably too bright.

machine.slave, mentioned a TIP 122 that might be toast, as soon as I get a pump and iron, I'm going to swap it out, I'm pretty sure I remember which one. I can always do some more testing.

If anyone has any extra ideas, please lay them on me.

Again, thanks a million machine.slave

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