Grand Prix Advancing Bonus Stars 2 At A Time

0

#1 7 years ago

OP

PUG

Collasta

Inactive member

7y 14,400 6 1

Hello,

I've recently cleaned and reassembled my Williams Grand Prix and am ready to start working out the glitches. The primary one involves the drop targets. When dropping a pair the bonus stars advance two at a time. After dropping once, getting the ball in the kick out hole will light the other two. I am reasonably confident that the issue of the kick out advancing stars happened a bit more recently.

One other new issue that developed the last time I lifted the playfield is the left bonus lights now start with two lit, it stays with two lit until 30k is reached. I'm putting a pin in this problem until I go into the fuses and what not to reduce the occasional flickering which I assume is a power/voltage issue?

I picked up a full sized schematic to make it easier on my eyes and have been tracing the paths from the star lights and the target relay but haven't done any more than cleaning switches.

Thank you for you time and any ideas you can offer.

0

#2 7 years ago

RM

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi Collasta
I am not sure if I understand Your description. ONE complex fault or several non-related faults ?

I understand "When dropping a pair ("A" and "B" Drop-Target or "C" and "D" Target) the bonus stars advance two at the time". And then the next sentence "After..." --- is this some other fault ? "Dropping once" means "Have made such a pair" ?
"Dropping once" means "loosing the ball and the ball enters the Outhole between the flipperbats" ?
"Dropping once" means ?
"Kickout-Hole" means "Top of the playfield, Eject-Hole"
"Kickout-Hole" means "Eject-Hole on the left side of the playfield" ?
"Kickout-Hole" means "Eject-Hole on the right side of the playfield" ?
"Kickout-Hole" means "Outhole between the flipper-bats" ?

I pick the feature*** "You made drop the "B" Target (a while ago) - none of the bonus stars is lit - NOW the ball hits the "A" target - You should get some points and ONE bonus star lights-up and then all four (A,B,C,D) Drop-Targets do reset. I call this "normal behaviour".
And You faulty get TWO Bonus-Stars lighted ? - do You get MORE points then by "normal behaviour" ? Does it matter "A,B" or "C,D" are hit ? Does it happen sometimes ? Does it happen always ? Does it happen "Zero Bonus-Lights stepped to Two-Bonus-Lights ? Does it happen "One Bonus-Lights stepped to Three-Bonus-Lights ? Does it happen "Two Bonus-Lights stepped to Four-Bonus-Lights ? Does it happen "Zero Bonus-Lights stepped to Three-Bonus-Lights ? etc.

I show a JPG we may have to talk about --- it is the situation "feature***" - the "B" target is already dropped - You make the "A" target drop. Greetings Rolf

0Grand-Prix-Work-17 (resized).jpg

0

#3 7 years ago

OP

PUG

Collasta

Inactive member

7y 14,400 6 1

Greetings Rolf,

I am happy to clarify, I was rather tired and distracted writing my post last night but I had been putting it off and wanted to make sure I wrote one soon.

My phrase dropping once does mean making a pair, either AB or CD, as you interpreted. Kickout hole means the eject holes on the left and the right side of the playfield. I am not 100% sure about the top kickout hole and will check it shortly to verify it shares the same problem. The outhole between flippers does not cause any issues.

I will also need to check the points but what I do know off the top of my head is that no issues arise when a single target is dropped. What I have observed with the playfield lifted is that when the first pair is completed the one and two star relay both activate. Second pair activates the three and four star relay. This always happens, with no lights lit, one pair lights stars 1 and 2 at roughly the same time. The second time a pair is dropped stars 3 and 4 light at roughly the same time. If the first pair has been dropped, lighting 1 and 2 and one of the two side eject holes is hit stars 3 and 4 light but slower, one at a time, rather than roughly the same time as when the drop target pairs are hit. I have not checked the associated relays in this case but assume they activate since the special light will light up.

When I purchased the game the stars lighting 2 at a time was an issue but the eject holes did not light stars as they do now, however, they did, and continue to score specials when all 4 stars are lit. I believe special is only scored by the lit rollover in the outlanes in a fully functional game?

0

#4 7 years ago

OP

PUG

Collasta

Inactive member

7y 14,400 6 1

This first video shows a new issue I noticed but can't intentionally replicate. Sometimes the upper right drop advances two bonus lights.

This second video is the games "normal" behavior.

0

#5 7 years ago

RM

rolf_martin_062

Inactive member

Aarau

9y 59,550 4,150 14 8

Hi Collasta
thanks for the videos and the clarification. Yes the "Number-1- and Number-2-Star-Relays" are activated "almost at the same time". The same is "No-3- and No-4-Star-Relays". The pin came with this faulty behaviour. I make it simple to me and I say "an preowner made a hack / modification". The second fault "Eject-Hole makes the rest of the Number-Relays pull-in - but rather slow" came with the pin in Your possession --- I made a theory for You to test - but the theory can be faulty.

The hack --- look in the JPG (A) the Score-Motor-Switches "4-B, 3-B, 1-B, IND-B" - all these switches have on one switchblade soldered-on "wire-color-red-white". The other switchblades of these switches have different wire-colors soldered-on. Then look at the JPB (B) - see how I exchanged the wires soldered-on "4-B" / "3-B" --- and I have exchanged the wires "1-B" / "IND-B" (?) I believe "JPG (A) is original and schematics --- JPG (B) is what You have in Your pin".

See on the bottom of post-2, JPG the drawing of the Score-Motor - the real engine / motor is outmost right - then comes INDEX-Wheel, then comes Wheel-named-Number-1 then the others (((easy to see are the Impulse-Wheels))).

Look at Score-Motor-Switch-4-B and Score-Motor-Switch-3-B - see wire-color-red-white (?) and now the questions: WHAT colors have the other lugs / switchblades soldered-on ? The same applies to SCM-1-B and SCM-IND-B.

Want to try: Unsolder at SCM-4-B and SCM-3-B and solder the two wires on EXCHANGED, same applies to SCM-1-B and SCM-IND-B.
I very much dislike to work on Score-Motor-Switches --- I have a trick - I say: It is my pin - I allow myself to take a scissor and CUT a wire --- about 3 to 5 inches away from the solder-lug. I buy myself some male and female plugs*** - mount the plugs - and with this I easily can do some "other wiring" ...

plugs***: K-Mart and such stores, automotive departement, car-electrics sell such plugs - I can squeeze the holding of the plug and the wire is mounted --- very comfortable. I use a cigarette-ligter to burn away the fabric insulation of the wires.

The wacky theory on "Eject-Holes make the Star-Relays pull-in": Maybe (maybe) at end of "Making the "No-1- and No-2-Relay to pull-in (((and Yes these must stay pulling))) - but the "Target-Relay MUST quit pulling at end of the feature --- my theory is - JPG (D), encircled rosa / pink is faulty - I suspect Score-Motor-5-B is not truely opening. Lift up the playfield - make as in the video the "C-, D-Targets" drop --- THEN look at the TARGET-Relay - question: Does it FAULTY stays pulling ?
And the "put the ball in the Eject-Hole" actually makes the Score-Motor to do another turn and as the Targets-Relay is faulty pulling: JPG (A) the No-3- and No-4-Star-Relays are made pulling.

I LIKE the Williams pins with the situation I show on JPG (C) --- The topmost-switch on the Index-Wheel is the "Score-Motor-Self-Hold-Switch" --- pin is in play - for some reason we want a turn of the Score-Motor: We gently press down the topmost switchblade on the Index-Wheel and we get the turn.
So instead of putting the ball after the "C-D-DROP-Target dropping" into the Eject-Hole: ONLY make the Score-Motor do a turn --- what happens ?

Theory to the hack: Study the bottom of post-2, JPG --- the Score-Motor-Wheels are turned clockwise --- SCM-4-B actuates (in time) after the SCM-3-B.
SCM-3-B would like to activate No-2-Star-Relay --- but the "Switch on No-1-Star-Relay" is not yet closed - as the No-1-Star-Relay is not yet made pulling.
The turning Score-Motor then closes SCM-4-B - NOW the No-1-Star-Relay pulls in and closes its "Switch on No-1-Star-Relay" - but by now the SCM-3-B is over - is open again ...
Greetings Rolf

0Grand-Prix-Work-18 (resized).jpg

By Collasta

7 years ago

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