(Topic ID: 356181)

Gottlieb System 80: Restore the Original Boards or Ni-Wumpf/Pascal it?

By Hammerhead

65 days ago


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Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 57 days ago by swampwiz
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    Topic poll

    “Original Restoration versus New Technology?”

    • Original 1980s boards 10 votes
      91%
    • Ni-Wumpf/Pascal 1 vote
      9%

    (11 votes)

    #1 65 days ago

    How important is it to keep all the original boards in a Gottlieb System 80A (with all of their quirks, workarounds, grounds, etc.) versus abandoning the old technology and investing in an aftermarket all-in-one replacement board? As an enthusiast, does the originality of the Gottlieb boards interest you more, or the reliability of an aftermarket board with all the necessary fixes?

    #2 65 days ago

    System 80 boards are well documented fairly easily repairable.

    Aftermarket boards don't eliminate all the system 80 flaws.

    Aftermarket boards are generally expensive and are rarely documented well enough to the point of being repairable if something goes wrong.

    System 1 MPUs are a different story, since critical parts are unobtainable.

    At the end of the day, aftermarket boards are not magic and not perfect.

    #3 65 days ago

    Unless the original boards are beyond repairing (battery damage on MPU, hole burned through driver board, etc), the originals are fixable.

    #4 65 days ago

    Originals are ALWAYS preferred.
    A lot of folks think that new means better.
    If I HAD to choose a S80 aftermarket board, it would be a NiWumpf.
    In pinball, that is seldom the case.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball - My YT Channel
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #5 64 days ago

    I definitely prefer original. It keeps the game authentic. Additionally, 20 years from now the originals will still be repairable, but that may not be the case for aftermarket replacements. Be certain that any Ni-Cd battery leakage has been neutralized and corrosion damage repaired. Strongly advise the installation of a NVRAM.

    #6 64 days ago

    My originals look like they've been run over by a truck and are still working and repairable. Well, maybe not that bad, but really have been worked over quite a bit. IMO, just fix them. Once you find and replace any questionable components, they'll be fairly reliable.

    #7 64 days ago

    Results are very clear.

    The reason I ask is that my System 80A had all of the ground mods completed, removed the old battery, repaired the acid damage, upgraded the PS board per PinWiki, and was working 100% for two months. Now I have no +5V at the PS for some reason and the game won't boot.

    I'll start diagnosing this weekend, but I wonder how long before the next thing goes.

    #8 64 days ago
    Quoted from Hammerhead:

    upgraded the PS board per PinWiki

    Hammerhead This is the first place to look.
    Did you replace the header pins?
    Reflowing header pins can't really create a reliable connection.
    Are the LEDs on the PS lit?
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball - My YT Channel
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #9 64 days ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Hammerhead This is the first place to look.
    Did you replace the header pins?
    Reflowing header pins can't really create a reliable connection.
    Are the LEDs on the PS lit?
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball - My YT Channel
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    Did you replace the header pins? Yes
    Are the LEDs on the PS lit? 12V yes, 5V no. Haven't checked yet with just J1 connected

    #10 64 days ago

    What Chris said. A large part of the "unreliability" of my MPU was a very flaky 5 volt connected from the power supply board. I put new square Trifurcon header pins on the PS board, and new connectors into both ends of the power supply harness. Rock solid.

    Quoted from Hammerhead:

    Are the LEDs on the PS lit? ... 5V no.

    Then something is still wrong on the PS, which should be easy to fix; and again this board is very reliable once properly gone over.

    No 5 volts sounds like Q3 went bad, or the legs are not making a solid connection to both sides of the board due to solder not flowing all the way through.

    #11 64 days ago

    Originals for me too and have fixed a decent pile of them over
    the years. The only time I'd go to an after market board is if the
    battery puke damage is impossible to fix. But haven't had to do that
    yet.

    #12 64 days ago
    Quoted from sparky672:

    What Chris said. A large part of the "unreliability" of my MPU was a very flaky 5 volt connected from the power supply board. I put new square Trifurcon header pins on the PS board, and new connectors into both ends of the power supply harness. Rock solid.

    Then something is still wrong on the PS, which should be easy to fix; and again this board is very reliable once properly gone over.
    No 5 volts sounds like Q3 went bad, or the legs are not making a solid connection to both sides of the board due to solder not flowing all the way through.

    Tested with only J1 connected:
    +5V=0.0
    +8V=8.0
    +42V=53.3
    +60V=71.1

    I replaced Q3 when I upgraded the PS. Would the new Q3 go that quickly?

    #13 64 days ago
    Quoted from Hammerhead:

    I replaced Q3 when I upgraded the PS. Would the new Q3 go that quickly?

    Like I already stated, you may not have flowed the solder all the way through. There needs to be a connection to traces on both front and back of board. Read the PinWiki article about this. Some people use jumpers to avoid the issue.

    #14 63 days ago

    Reflowed the Q3 pins, really laid on the solder. Game started with +5 LED on for a short time, but it’s now gone again.

    #15 63 days ago

    That sounds like a componet working until it heats up, simply a guess

    #16 63 days ago
    Quoted from Hammerhead:

    Reflowed the Q3 pins, really laid on the solder. Game started with +5 LED on for a short time, but it’s now gone again.

    There's your clue that something still isn't right with these connections. Globbing on more solder is not the answer if there's contamination preventing it from flowing down where it needs to go, or if the trace is broken/cracked on the other side. Like I stated previously, some people install jumpers to eliminate/bypass this kind of issue. Refer to the schematic to know where to connect these legs.

    #17 57 days ago

    I generally have a short fuse with stock boards, and almost always buy a new one. That said, I am impressed by Zaccaria's CPU & driver boards, so I might try keeping my 2 as stock, except for the horrific Gen 1 power board that is to be replaced as soon as the replacement board comes in the mail.

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