(Topic ID: 107649)

Gottlieb 2nd coin chute adj.

By Pinbee

9 years ago


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#1 9 years ago

I'm unable to get my Sure Shot to give credits in the 2, 3, or 4 plays per coin positions. The 5 plays per coin position functions properly. It's not necessary that these work, but I'd like to understand the schematic and resolve the issue. I assume that normally closed motor switches at 2c, 4c, and 4b open to limit the 5 pulses from 1A, but I don't know where to start troubleshooting as the motor switches seem to be in adjustment. And I'm not clear on where the color coded wires originate or end.
Also wondering how often Gottliebs deviate from the wire colors on the schematic. Any advice appreciated.image-291.jpgimage-291.jpgimage-345.jpgimage-345.jpg

#2 9 years ago

Is the 1st chute adjustment plug in the "2nd Chute" position?

#3 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Is the 1st chute adjustment plug in the "2nd Chute" position?

Affirmative.

#4 9 years ago

Figured as much, thought it couldn't hurt to ask.

So with the plug in the '5' position, you'll note that the path directly bypasses the 2C, 4C, 4B score motor switches. But since the '4' position also doesn't work, then that narrows it down to just 2C being the culprit; it has to be closed in order for any of 2, 3, or 4 to work. I'd suggest focusing there.

These switches can 'look' closed, but it requires a strong light to really see them, and even if closed, dirty contacts can still prevent a connection.

#5 9 years ago

Went over the 2C switches again to no avail. Guess it's time to use the jumpers, except that it's not obvious to me where to attach them. That's what prompted my question about assignment of the wire colors on the schematic. And not having a score motor card doesn't help.

#6 9 years ago

For Sure Shot, the motor card info will be in the Operator's Manual instead of on a card stapled in the cabinet.

The C level will be even with the top cam. Don't know how many switches are at the 2C stack, but if there aren't so many normally closed ones, process of elimination may narrow it down.

More of a long shot, but if the 2nd chute jones pug receiver is corroded, then it could just be that the plug isn't making good connections there. (Just mentioning for completeness.)

I haven't really encountered many wire color differences from the schematic, unless it's a sample game or something.

If you know which switch it is at 4C, you could jumper from there back to the '5' plug and also bypass 2C, rather than jumper directly at 2C. (So the OR+BLK or BL+BLK.)

#7 9 years ago

Dirt, thanks for the enlightenment. Will report back.

#8 9 years ago

Since the “5” works, and the “4” doesn’t I agree the problem is in the OR+BLK wire or the 2C contact.

Get a voltmeter/continuity tester, etc.

Power off, unplug from wall (want everything in the “normal” state).

Unplug 2nd Chute Adj Pin from everything.

Find the “W” relay. Identify the C stack, N/O leaf (the “right” side of W). If there are multiple C contacts on W, then you’ll need to use the continuity tester to identify the correct N/O leaf by checking continuity between 5 and each N/O leaf. Once you’ve identified this circuit, I would expect both the 5, and N/O (right side) of W to both be BR+BLK.

Now do the same test between 5 and EVERY contact on the 2C stack. Since 2C is N/C, once you get continuity to a 2C contact, you might be testing the “left” or “right” side of 2C. Manually open (stick a piece of paper between the contacts) to the identified 2C contact. Once opened, one side of 2C should show continuity to 5 and W-N/O. I would expect that side to be BR+BLK. The *other* side of the 2C contact should be OR+BLK and should show continuity to 4.

One big problem with these machines is there’s usually a double wire somewhere and the circuit doesn’t physically “match” the drawing. The wires could look like any of these:

5-----W,N/O----2C (W,N/O with double wires)
W,N/O----5----2C (5 with double wires)
5-----2C-----W,N/O (2C with double wires)

In all 3 cases, 5, 2C and W,N/O are electrically connected and the electrons don’t care how the machine is physically wired!!! But it makes it extremely difficult to understand when you’re looking at a drawing.

I hope that helps identify things.

#9 9 years ago

Reddogger, once I digest your post I'll let you know. Heading out of town, so will probably be next week. Thanks!

2 weeks later
#10 9 years ago

Reddogger and Dirtflipper, I've followed your suggestions, here are the results.

With the 2nd chute pin unplugged, there is continuity as follows:

W relay N/O to #5, Grn+Blk

Left 2C to #4, Brn+Blk

Rt. 2C to #3 & #2 Or+Blk

Rt. 4C to #4 & #3 Or+Blk

Left 4C to #2 Bl+Blk to 4B

Jumping 5 to 2C gives 2 credits, 5 to 4C gives 3 credits, 5 to 4B gives 4 credits.

I'm afraid none of this leads me to any conclusion. All contacts seem to be clean and adjusted, and there is continuity from the 2nd chute pin to 1A and 4B on the Red-Blk wire. Since it seems the 2nd chute pin should function separated from the receiver to award 1 credit, could the problem be with it?Any further suggestions appreciated, otherwise 5 plays for .25 isn't so bad.

#11 9 years ago

If the 2nd chute adj. plug is left unplugged entirely (so in 2, 3, 4, or 5), how many credits does it give?

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

If the 2nd chute adj. plug is left unplugged entirely (so in 2, 3, 4, or 5), how many credits does it give?

No credit given. Sorry that was omitted from the original post.

#13 9 years ago

That alone still suggests there's an open along the 4B - 4C - 2C path then.

If you test continuity from left of 2C to right of 4B, what do you get?

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

That alone still suggests there's an open along the 4B - 4C - 2C path then.
If you test continuity from left of 2C to right of 4B, what do you get?

No continuity between those.

#15 9 years ago

So I'd still suspect 2C, given that your jumping from 5 to other points got some credits.

#16 9 years ago

This was 2 weeks ago, how am I suppose to remember that far back???<g>

I re-read my earlier email and I realized there might be some confusion. When I said "right" or "left" side of 2C, I was discussing the contacts on the PRINT. That won't necessarily match the physical left or right.

I thought the original issue was you weren't sure of the color codes. My suggestion was intended to help you identify which wire went where and then confirm the color codes.

Since 5 works and 4 doesn't (nor does 3 or 2) it seems like the problem is in the OR+BLK -> 2C section.

It sounds like you've located the correct 2C contact. When the 2C contact is off the cog, and it's closed, you should have continuity between 4, 2C (both sides), 5 and W N/O (BR+BLK leaf). ALL 5 POINTS(!) should have continuity.

If you rotate the motor so 2C opens, you should see 2 sets of continuity:

1) W N/O, 5, 2C (left side from print). Probably all BR+BLK wiring
2) 4, 2C (right side of print). Probably both OR+BLK wiring

TEST: Put continuity tester on 4 & 5. Rotate motor. You should get on / off / on / off ... as you rotate the motor.

Also, make sure all the relays are off. This includes tripping all the bank relays. And make sure you have the fuses removed. It's too easy for continuity to go the wrong way down the power buss, through the transformer, back up the return buss and through the coil and give you a false continuity reading. (Since you're working on a small section around the W N/O contact I wouldn't think this would happen, but better safe than confused).

#17 9 years ago

Solved, with some chagrin...Reddogger, I followed your instructions, most tested out ok, but couldn't get continuity from 5 to the motor. So randomly probing from 5 to motor switches found a circuit to the inside switch at 1D, on top and in plain view. This NC switch was gapped open, has Br+Blk and Or+Blk. A little filing and adjusting and everything now works.
What seemed odd though, the schematic and op manual show two switches at 1D, my machine has four. While puzzling over this I recalled the only paperwork that came with the game when I bought it..."Supplement Coin Chute Circuits". In glancing over it months ago I thought it was only for foreign set-ups, but on closer inspection there is one named "domestic #22", and that is what my machine has.
As usual, it is so obvious now.
So, sorry for the wild goose chase, but without Dirtflipper and you don't think I would have tracked this down. Plus I've got a much better feel for score motor function. Thanks, guys.

#18 9 years ago

Way cool. Congrats!

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