You'll pay HST on the total value of the machine. Custom's guys are known to research the real value, so there is no point playing games. The trade won't make a difference, the government does not give breaks for "barter" .

As a personal purchase, you can do this yourself at the border.

I would call CBSA (Canada Border Services Agency) and ask them exactly what you need so that you don't get hung up at the border either way. They have been pretty helpful when I have called them with questions.

Well, I've never brought a pin to the US, so I can't say. My guess would be it should be fine, you would literally do exactly that (tell the guy in the booth what you are doing). If there is paperwork to be done, he would tell you to pull in and take care of it.

At the end of the day, you tell the truth and be upfront of what you are doing and it should be OK.

Your best bet is to call US Customs and Border Protection.

General Inquiries: 1-877-CBP-5511
International Callers: (703) 526-4200

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/customer_service.xml

and maybe a quick read of this:
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/209

I second the motion to call first...I'm imagining if it's for sale, you might have to pay duty on the full value. There will be surely be detailed paperwork to fill out.
If you say it's just having resto work done on it and you're bringing it back home, that may be different...but like frolic said, they don't play around. Many of them will look up information online...the original ads, conversations to prove what you're saying, etc. Always be completely honest and everyone's happy.
Once in a while you get lucky, I brought a nice Tempest Cabaret back...declared its full value and the guy just waved me on through. I think he got a kick out of seeing it.

When looking at the reverse situation, I've bought a few pins in the US and brought them across the border into Canada. I let the Canadian border know the total and out here in BC they send me in to pay the 12% HST. If instead of me bringing my machine across it was the owner of it (say he's going to drive it right to my house), I would think that the same thing would occur (ie. the owner would get sent in and would have to take care of paying the HST somehow, or maybe I called the Canadian border and arranged to take care of things for him). Bottom line is I don't think the machine would get across the border without the HST being paid.

So I would think if I were to load up one of my pins and drive it across the border to the US the US border guys would have a few questions for me. I would think that the same process occurs with bringing a pinball the other way (ie. from Canada to the US, the new US buyer would have some taxes to pay). I'd be surprised if they just waved you through with your machine.

And when dealing with the border guys honesty is most definitely the best policy!

From Washington State and US citizen. I have bought two machines at different times in Vancouver and haven't had an issue crossing the border back. Going up on the first trip the Canadian Customs Officer acted like I would have issues and to get receipts. US Customs has been cool both times, surprised that people collect pins and asking questions. Both pins were made in the US originally, so really they are coming home.

Carey

exactly. That would be true of virtually all pins.

I think the difference with Canada is, the border service collects HST (federal tax) because that is their money. The US border guys won't be collecting state tax, and there is no federal tax (and no duty on pins). so it's probably a straight shot through.

Forgot to add in my post that I'm sure someone on the site from the US has made the trek to Canada, bought a machine, and then drove back home through the US border with it.

Nice to see that someone has done it, and also nice to see that there were no issues, fees or taxes. From my perspective as a Canadian it definitely makes things easier if I try to sell a machine because it provides easy access to anyone in the US market, and that would be a big bonus. For any of us in Canada buying machines in the US it adds that extra cost in when you think about getting it through the border (this year I've kicked in around $1,200 to our Federal Govt. just to get an Xmen and Tron across the border). Oh well, just a cost of doing business and not much we can do about it.

This is a big No-No, if you tell the US border guys that you are taking a game down to sell in the US, you will be turned back, they consider that doing business in the USA, something as a Canadian you can't do. The only way it works is if you have it already presold AND paid for, and you will need paperwork to verify it. You also need to go thru the commercial section of the border, and pay a fee, $10.75 the last time I did it, and have an importation manifest filled out. Trust me, I've done this many times, you do not just want to just show up at the crossing and hope for the best, it can get nasty very quickly. Of course there can be exceptions, a guard can just waive you thru, but that's really a long shot, not worth taking the chance IMO.

It's a totally different story if it's an American taking the game back, it's virtually hassle free!

As for bringing a game into Canada, a Canadian will most likely have to pay whatever sales taxes are applicable depending on the province, but you can get waived thru, has happened to me several times. Make sure you have a legitimate receipt and you shouldn't have any problems.

An American bringing a game up to Canada is almost the same thing, tax should be collected, but it's been my experience that a US citizen is much more likely to get waived thru with a pin, not sure why, but I've saved a ton over the years by having a friend bring games up for me

Good to know! If I ever sell a machine to someone in the US this makes it nice and easy for what I'll need to do.

Person to person sales generally do not end up with a receipt, just cash exchanges hand; which can also cause a huge issue. I was curious about this since there have been some machines come up for sale in Vancouver. If I ever was to go to BC to pick up a machine and bring back, I imagine huge issues with the US Border Patrol. I get hasseled just coming back from watching hockey. Can't imagine it would be any easier with a $4K pinball machine.

It's a totally different story if it's an American taking the game back, it's virtually hassle free!

+1. Have done this several times without a hitch.

Also if you know what you're going to be bringing back to the US, print out something from ipdb in advance that shows the game was made in the US. That can help at the border!

With such a huge border, I believe I would try to find some backwoods road and come across where there is no border guard. Surely, there are not guards at every little road that crosses the two countries. I would probably enjoy the challenge. It would be worth the extra cost of gas driving out of your way just to see if the venture would work.

I know when I lived in Europe 35+ years ago, we had fun finding a way to cross into another country through back roads and avoiding the customs booths. If you took a main road you HAD to stop and get your Passport checked, etc. Get caught? "Sorry sir, but I got lost and I'm looking for the way back into my country. Pay a fee for this pinball machine? Of course I will. I'm just happy to know I'm back in civilization! You can't believe how frightened I was when I was 'lost'!" Haaaaaaaa!

Hmmm... very valid point. I think the gist of this thread is that it's better to have the Americans come up and pick up their games themselves.

At BEST you are looking at a paperwork headache. Not sure if it's worth the effort, unless you are being paid a premium for your game compared to a local buyer.

Before 9/11 this was very true. Tons of dirt roads connecting small towns on both sides of the border, you could ride a bicycle across and no one would stop you. Now it's all infrared and air surveillance. Not worth it over a pinball machine.