(Topic ID: 350628)

Black Knight no GI even though having correct VAC

By brmorr

3 months ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by brmorr
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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GI CONNECTOR (resized).png
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#1 3 months ago

Ok, going through a 1980 Williams Black Knight and I am trying to get the GI lit. Here is what I have done:

Reflowed any connectors on power board
New GI connector, etc. with trifurcon pins
Check all fuses, etc.
Checked continuity across multiple parts of the GI sections.

When I measure the VAC at the bulb sockets for GI, I am getting the correct 6.5-7 VAC at the tabs on all. Connector going out of PS measures the same as well.

Am I possibly missing a ground or something? Could this be the GI relay? No GI works even the backbox as well.

Let me know if anyone has any ideas!!

#2 3 months ago

Pics of the wiring connections for the GI will probably be helpful. Someone might spot something out of place/mis-wired/etc.

Are you testing new bulbs in the sockets? I remember one time diagnosing the GI on a game i just got, scratching my head for a long time until i tried a new bulb... First time I ever saw a game with *every* GI bulb gone bad.

#3 3 months ago
Quoted from frunch:

Pics of the wiring connections for the GI will probably be helpful. Someone might spot something out of place/mis-wired/etc.
Are you testing new bulbs in the sockets? I remember one time diagnosing the GI on a game i just got, scratching my head for a long time until i tried a new bulb... First time I ever saw a game with *every* GI bulb gone bad.

Yes, new bulbs have been put into the backbox and some areas in the playfield. No change, but tabs appear to have correct readings for VAC. I will get some pics of the wiring connections to include here.

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#4 3 months ago

No GI after replacing connectors checking fuses and voltage:

Disconnect the GI relay cutoff connector.

GI returns?

Driver #11 stuck on driverboard

GI CONNECTOR (resized).pngGI CONNECTOR (resized).png
#5 3 months ago
Quoted from PINTEC:

No GI after replacing connectors checking fuses and voltage:
Disconnect the GI relay cutoff connector.
GI returns?
Driver #11 stuck on driverboard
[quoted image]

Still no GI after disconnecting that connector.

#6 3 months ago

Going to drop a pic of all my boards in case something is out of place. Game plays fine, just the GI out though

IMG_3015 (resized).jpegIMG_3015 (resized).jpeg
#7 3 months ago

Bypass the relay
No?

Check the connector between the head and cabinet for shorts.
Check the GI wiring at the Transformer Lugs

#8 3 months ago

Did you check the big blue capacitor mounted on the bottom of the backbox. I believe the G.I's run through it.

#9 3 months ago
Quoted from PINTEC:

Bypass the relay
No?
Check the connector between the head and cabinet for shorts.
Check the GI wiring at the Transformer Lugs

I’ll check the connector again, but didn’t come across any shorts. The thing that is throwing me is all the GI in the cab and backbox has the 6.3-7VAC when I check it. Backbox basically comes out of the power board right into the light panel pretty much.

I’m going to try and disconnect the GI to the playfield and see if the backbox gi comes up. I disconnected the backbox gi and no change

#10 3 months ago

No change if I separate the backbox or cab gi.

#11 3 months ago

so you have voltage at the sockets? bad common ground somewhere for all the GI?

#12 3 months ago
Quoted from mc300baud:

so you have voltage at the sockets? bad common ground somewhere for all the GI?

Yes, when I measure the vac at the sockets I get the 6.3-7ish. Quick question on that, both tags should measure the same?

#13 3 months ago

The next step is to Check the transformer for a broken or shorted wire in the GI LUGS

GI lugs (resized).jpgGI lugs (resized).jpg
#14 3 months ago
Quoted from PINTEC:

The next step is to Check the transformer for a broken or shorted wire in the GI LUGS[quoted image]

That was it, I desoldered, cut back and stripped some new wiring for both that lug and the lug on the other side of the transformer. GI works fine now. Had looked at that beforehand, but they didn’t seem bad or needing to be resoldered.

Thanks again @PINTEC, I knew it was something small I was looking over.
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#15 3 months ago

Actually, this is a very interesting question for a beginner. The OP says that, with a meter, at the bulb it measured the correct voltage.
Which is possible, so knowing it's a good bulb why is it not lighting?
We know physically why it happened, any guesses why this occurred electrically?
Interesting also, they appear to be LED's.
(this question is meant for those who don't know, guesses welcome, that's how I learn, from guessing a lot!)

#16 3 months ago

Whoops -- comment deleted for the sake of letting others guess

#17 3 months ago

my semi-educated guess is that the circuit wasn't being completed at the transformer block, in the same way that coils are always powered but don't activate until the transistor completes the circuit back on the driver board side.

#18 3 months ago
Quoted from Seamlesswall:

Actually, this is a very interesting question for a beginner. The OP says that, with a meter, at the bulb it measured the correct voltage.
Which is possible, so knowing it's a good bulb why is it not lighting?
We know physically why it happened, any guesses why this occurred electrically?

A voltage measured *across* a good bulb means current is flowing thru the bulb, which would light it. Since it is AC, even an LED would light on one of the phases.
Possible the OP measured voltage on either tab with respect to a common ground, rather than across the bulb. With both tabs at the same potential (and in phase), the AC voltage would've measured 0 *across* the bulb (no current flowing, bulb doesn't light).

#19 3 months ago

Tin kiss mends loose path,
Black Knight stirs, his armor glows,
Bulbs cry, "Victory!"

#20 3 months ago
Quoted from yendor0:

Possible the OP measured voltage on either tab with respect to a common ground, rather than across the bulb. With both tabs at the same potential (and in phase), the AC voltage would've measured 0 *across* the bulb (no current flowing, bulb doesn't light).

This is correct. Measured both tabs in respect to ground.

I believe I did measure across the bulb at one point and did get the “0” reading.

I even checked continuity through the connector in the backbox to the transformer at one point and it beeped on each side.

Game had incandescent bulbs in backbox during my testing and I swapped them out right before I cleaned up the transformer wiring. If you look closely, the playfield GI still has them(for now).

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